Witnesses tell FBI that George Zimmerman is no racist

[iwantmass]

If trayvon would not have doubled back on Zimmerman while he was returning to his car, per the "real" recorded 911 conversation, he would still be alive.  Instead, he followed him down and initiated an assault.  It is irrelevant whether Zimmerman was a racist, loser, deadbeat, etc.  Al Sharpton is all those things, and I would never condone anyone assaulting him.  News flash: racism isn't against the law, trayvon assaulting Zimmerman is and thus why he got shot

[iwantmass]

By the way, a teenage kid roaming around in the rain in the middle of the night constitutes suspicious behavior where I come from.  So all of you thst keep saying he was doing nothing wrong are actually talking out your ass. You don't know that, nor do i, nor did zimmerman.  What I do know is that a person has every right to observe another person he deems suspicious.  No information has ever shown Zimmerman to have violated trayvon' personal space.

[Straw Man]

If trayvon would not have doubled back on Zimmerman while he was returning to his car, per the "real" recorded 911 conversation, he would still be alive.  Instead, he followed him down and initiated an assault.  It is irrelevant whether Zimmerman was a racist, loser, deadbeat, etc.  Al Sharpton is all those things, and I would never condone anyone assaulting him.  News flash: racism isn't against the law, trayvon assaulting Zimmerman is and thus why he got shot

except there is no proof that Martin "initiated" the assault and the "real" 911 call could very well be Zimmerman lying to the operator

anyway, who gives a shit anymore

Martin is still dead and Zimm is still a fat piece of shit who will no doubt keep "finding" trouble for the rest of what is hopefully a short life

[iwantmass]

240's dumbass gives a shit. Thus why he bumped this thread. He is one of the least intelligent ppl on this forum, while also being 1 of the most vocal. Funny how that combo occurs often.  Had he not bumped it, and all the other race baiters such as andreisdaman and yourself not bumped it, I wouldn't have responded either way.

And for the record, trayvon' friend suggested he doubled back. Her words, not mine. She plead with him not to and to just go home. That coupled with the phone call is what the court of law call evidence, thus why that piece of shit known as zimmerman was not charged. 

While I commend your getbig stance on evidence, the court of law disagrees with you

[Dos Equis]

Possibly an overstatement, but if you were to make a wager as to the odds of someone calling a white person a monkey or a baboon, the odds would be EXTREMELY EXTREMELY low.

You know this.

We're sort of saying the same thing.  I'm not going to argue percentages.  I'm just looking at broader issue of labeling someone because they made a single comment. Oftentimes, the words people use are a reflection of what's in their heart.  Sometimes, however, people  just say stupid things.  Remember Biden making a comment about 7/11 stores being owned by people from India?  Or his "they're going to put y'all back in chains" comment?  Dumb things to say, but neither automatically make him a racist. 

Or how about Trayvon Martin (or his girlfriend) calling Zimmerman a cracker?  That didn't automatically make Martin a racist.

[TuHolmes]

We're sort of saying the same thing.  I'm not going to argue percentages.  I'm just looking at broader issue of labeling someone because they made a single comment. Oftentimes, the words people use are a reflection of what's in their heart.  Sometimes, however, people  just say stupid things.  Remember Biden making a comment about 7/11 stores being owned by people from India?  Or his "they're going to put y'all back in chains" comment?  Dumb things to say, but neither automatically make him a racist. 

Or how about Trayvon Martin (or his girlfriend) calling Zimmerman a cracker?  That didn't automatically make Martin a racist.

Some of what you say is valid... Obviously with Biden we just make the assumption that he's a buffoon and says dumb shit.

White people certainly don't get inflamed over cracker as much.

While certainly, people say random things off the cuff and it is not necessarily indicative of who they are as people, saying a black person looks like a baboon or a monkey should pretty much be something that you just don't say.

Does it make Zimmerman a guaranteed racist? No.

However.  Take his statement today. Toss in his signing autographs in front of a confederate flag. Add him chasing down a black youngster and assuming he was going to rob someone and eventually killing them.

It starts to show a pattern doesn't it?

What was the race of the guy who shot back at Zimmerman from the car?

I'm asking that honestly because I don't know.

[Dos Equis]

Some of what you say is valid... Obviously with Biden we just make the assumption that he's a buffoon and says dumb shit.

White people certainly don't get inflamed over cracker as much.

While certainly, people say random things off the cuff and it is not necessarily indicative of who they are as people, saying a black person looks like a baboon or a monkey should pretty much be something that you just don't say.

Does it make Zimmerman a guaranteed racist? No.

However.  Take his statement today. Toss in his signing autographs in front of a confederate flag. Add him chasing down a black youngster and assuming he was going to rob someone and eventually killing them.

It starts to show a pattern doesn't it?

What was the race of the guy who shot back at Zimmerman from the car?

I'm asking that honestly because I don't know.

He didn't say Obama looked like a baboon.  He called him an ignorant baboon. 

I agree using the confederate flag was pretty dumb.  That's consistent with his poor judgment.

But if you look at his history, he worked with minority kids.  I think he lived with one.  And keep in mind the Justice Department asked the entire country to call a 1-800 number with evidence of his racism and got nothing.  Pretty scary what the government can do to the average American. 

I don't know anything about his latest incident.

[andreisdaman]

240's dumbass gives a shit. Thus why he bumped this thread. He is one of the least intelligent ppl on this forum, while also being 1 of the most vocal. Funny how that combo occurs often.  Had he not bumped it, and all the other race baiters such as andreisdaman and yourself not bumped it, I wouldn't have responded either way.

And for the record, trayvon' friend suggested he doubled back. Her words, not mine. She plead with him not to and to just go home. That coupled with the phone call is what the court of law call evidence, thus why that piece of shit known as zimmerman was not charged. 

While I commend your getbig stance on evidence, the court of law disagrees with you

you stupid fucking idiot...if you read my post I stated that we should stop emphasizing race and look at the incident..a kid who was minding his business wound up dead......you are so busy trying to be angry and racist toward Trayvon that you are missing the point..he has the right to walk wherever he wants at any time of day...his father lived in the neighborhood......he had no right to confront Trayvon.....then he turned pussy and shot the kid after the kid kicked his ass

think rationally you stupid fuck

[iwantmass]

No evidence points to him "confronting" trayvon, but your literacy is in question so you just keep repeating yourself.  He does have a right to roam his neighborhood as does zimmerman have the right to observe him.  I find it a tragedy that trayvon died at that age, but I also find it wouldn't have happened if he didn't assault  someone.

You on the other hand make up your own argument and ignore facts

[TuHolmes]

He didn't say Obama looked like a baboon.  He called him an ignorant baboon. 

I agree using the confederate flag was pretty dumb.  That's consistent with his poor judgment.

But if you look at his history, he worked with minority kids.  I think he lived with one.  And keep in mind the Justice Department asked the entire country to call a 1-800 number with evidence of his racism and got nothing.  Pretty scary what the government can do to the average American. 

I don't know anything about his latest incident.

Understand, I have zero proof of any pattern before the Trayvon Martin incident. I knew nothing of him, but since then, he has been on the radar, and since then, he's done some things that would lead a person to believing he might not be a straight up "racist", but it is not unbelievable to think he might have some bigotry about him.

[andreisdaman]

No evidence points to him "confronting" trayvon, but your literacy is in question so you just keep repeating yourself.  He does have a right to roam his neighborhood as does zimmerman have the right to observe him.  I find it a tragedy that trayvon died at that age, but I also find it wouldn't have happened if he didn't assault  someone.

You on the other hand make up your own argument and ignore facts

my argument is as good as yours.....why are you so willing to believe Zimmerdumb???..you weren't there either

[iwantmass]

I will take the woman that was talking on the phone's word that trayvon advanced towards zimmerman, seeing as she was in support of her friend, not zimmerman. I will couple that with all other evidence, none of which that you likely looked at, judging by your argument.  Your arguments differ greatly from mine. Your strongest argument generally involves calling me a gimmick after I lay out facts, so no, your argument isn't it as good as mine. It is completely absent of fact and only consist of trigger words such as "confront" or " chase" that don't actually fit the real world event per any of the evidence

[andreisdaman]

I will take the woman that was talking on the phone's word that trayvon advanced towards zimmerman, seeing as she was in support of her friend, not zimmerman. I will couple that with all other evidence, none of which that you likely looked at, judging by your argument.  Your arguments differ greatly from mine. Your strongest argument generally involves calling me a gimmick after I lay out facts, so no, your argument isn't it as good as mine. It is completely absent of fact and only consist of trigger words such as "confront" or " chase" that don't actually fit the real world event per any of the evidence

your argument is absent of facts as well..I laugh at you and people like you who say my argument lacks facts when yours does as well.....and even if Trayvon confronted Zimerdumb, I see nothing wrong with confronting someone who is obviously following you...I would do the same.....that doesn't give Zimmerdumb the right to kill someone

[Straw Man]

I will take the woman that was talking on the phone's word that trayvon advanced towards zimmerman, seeing as she was in support of her friend, not zimmerman. I will couple that with all other evidence, none of which that you likely looked at, judging by your argument.  Your arguments differ greatly from mine. Your strongest argument generally involves calling me a gimmick after I lay out facts, so no, your argument isn't it as good as mine. It is completely absent of fact and only consist of trigger words such as "confront" or " chase" that don't actually fit the real world event per any of the evidence

What Rachel Jeantel said is she believed Martin hit first AFTER Zimmerman laid hands on him and tried to detain him so since you've already said you will take her word then tell me  who was the aggressor and instigator?

She also said she heard Martin say "get off, get off"

so again, since you've chosen to believe her statements explain how Martin is the aggressor when Zimmerman initiated physical contact

[240 is Back]

No evidence points to him "confronting" trayvon

He parked his truck, went in the opposite direction from his home, and was huffing and puffing on phone while saying "he's getting away".

We don't know who "confronted" who, but we do know who left their path to pursue 2 blocks in the rainy night while calling him a punk and a-hole (zimmerman) and who ran, in the direction of his destination, unarmed (trayvon).

In florida, if a dude with 50 pounds on me and a 9mm chases me 2 blocks in the night, I'm fully justified to pick up a rock, a brick, a fist, a knife or a rake and KILL HIM if I fear for my life.  So yeah, we have no proof trayvon punched first, but some could argue he feared for his life. 

10 years older, 50 pounds heavier, armed with a 9mm and chasing...

[iwantmass]

Now now, Strawman, you are providing half truths as you normally do.  Rachel Zentel was cross examined after stating that she heard Trayvon say those things because they weren't consistent with her original testimony.  Some of her testimony changed, some of it remained the same.  i certainly never said i thought her to be a saint and her entire word is as good as gold, but that is why both teams have a chance to examine her.  What remains constant from her testimony is her assertion that Trayvon initiated contact.  Nice try though...

And as far as 240, you are too dumb to forget that Zimmerman gained all that weight after the start of the trial.  On that night, he weighed much less.  And he doubled back and made the confrontation, which I don't take to demonstrate a state of fear.  He certainly may have been curious as to why someone was following him, which still doesn't give him a right to hit the guy.   Also, in your nature of construing your fantasy as fact, you add the detail that he knew he had a gun.  Courts don't operate off of your imagination.  While he may have assumed Zimmerman was armed, we will never know his state of thought on the matter and none of the evidence suggests that he did know that.  After all, he tracked Zimmerman down which doesn't stick with the narrative of knowing he was armed. 
 

[iwantmass]

your argument is absent of facts as well..I laugh at you and people like you who say my argument lacks facts when yours does as well.....and even if Trayvon confronted Zimerdumb, I see nothing wrong with confronting someone who is obviously following you...I would do the same.....that doesn't give Zimmerdumb the right to kill someone

If Trayvon initiates an assault that is inclusive to banging Zimmerman's head on the ground, that is the exact right Zimmerman has at that point, the right to kill

[Straw Man]

Now now, Strawman, you are providing half truths as you normally do.  Rachel Zentel was cross examined after stating that she heard Trayvon say those things because they weren't consistent with her original testimony.  Some of her testimony changed, some of it remained the same.  i certainly never said i thought her to be a saint and her entire word is as good as gold, but that is why both teams have a chance to examine her.  What remains constant from her testimony is her assertion that Trayvon initiated contact.  Nice try though...

And as far as 240, you are too dumb to forget that Zimmerman gained all that weight after the start of the trial.  On that night, he weighed much less.  And he doubled back and made the confrontation, which I don't take to demonstrate a state of fear.  He certainly may have been curious as to why someone was following him, which still doesn't give him a right to hit the guy.   Also, in your nature of construing your fantasy as fact, you add the detail that he knew he had a gun.  Courts don't operate off of your imagination.  While he may have assumed Zimmerman was armed, we will never know his state of thought on the matter and none of the evidence suggests that he did know that.  After all, he tracked Zimmerman down which doesn't stick with the narrative of knowing he was armed.  
 

How about this, you tell me what part of her "original testimony" you are referring to and where she said he initiated contact as in physical contact

your opinions seem to indidcate you followed this closely so please provide the links to her testimony and explain why selected parts that you believe and parts that you don't believe.  From what I've seen, all she said was that she heard Marting say “What you following me for?”

I can only assume that is what you are referring to as "contact" which is of course not physical contact

Did she say on the stand that Martin threw the first punch?  Here is her testimony.  

If you're referring to something that she said when she wasn't on the stand that's fine.  You can link to that too but then of course that opens it up to anything else she said outside of the court as well

[240 is Back]

And as far as 240, you are too dumb to forget that Zimmerman gained all that weight after the start of the trial.  On that night, he weighed much less. 

You're right.

At the time of his arrest on April 11, 2012, Zimmerman's height was reportedly 5 feet 7 inches (1.70 m) and his weight 185 lb (84 kg).

Trayon was 158 pounds.   

Also Zimmerman was an armed, MMA-trained man, older, who made an aggressive action by jumping out of a vehicle and pursuing Trayvon 2 blocks in the opposite direction he was initially heading.

In Florida (and I've sat thru several permit classes) - Trayvon has a VERY good case to use deadly force once Zimmerman caught him.  If any of us jumps out of truck wearing our TapOut and a 9mm, chases a girl much smaller than us 2 blocks in the rainy night, and finally catches her crouching in the bushes to avoid detection/us finding where she lives... wouldn't we EXPECT mace to face, if not worse? 

Those of us with size, and our own gun, and life experience might just chat at the man who chased us.  But a minor, with a stranger following?  Yeah, if Trayvon had fought and killed zimmerman, he probably would have walked too.

[iwantmass]

You're right.

At the time of his arrest on April 11, 2012, Zimmerman's height was reportedly 5 feet 7 inches (1.70 m) and his weight 185 lb (84 kg).

Trayon was 158 pounds.   

Also Zimmerman was an armed, MMA-trained man, older, who made an aggressive action by jumping out of a vehicle and pursuing Trayvon 2 blocks in the opposite direction he was initially heading.

In Florida (and I've sat thru several permit classes) - Trayvon has a VERY good case to use deadly force once Zimmerman caught him.  If any of us jumps out of truck wearing our TapOut and a 9mm, chases a girl much smaller than us 2 blocks in the rainy night, and finally catches her crouching in the bushes to avoid detection/us finding where she lives... wouldn't we EXPECT mace to face, if not worse? 

Those of us with size, and our own gun, and life experience might just chat at the man who chased us.  But a minor, with a stranger following?  Yeah, if Trayvon had fought and killed zimmerman, he probably would have walked too.


There you go lying again, adding your own elements. You completely fabricated him jumping out of his vehicle and giving chase. And as far as your analogy of some fella chasing a woman, I won't even entertain that utter stupidity.

I commend strawman for at least presenting an intelligent side to his debate.  Yiu just choose adjectives outta that yahtzee brain of yours at random to try and shift the narrative in your favor.   I can't imagine at what point in your real life someone has indicated to you that you are intelligent and capable of engaging in actual unbiased debate.   

[Straw Man]

Let's look at the narrative here

1.  wanna be cop who has called 911 numerous times
2.  Says on this 911 call  “F—— punks. These a——-. They always get away.”
3.  Has a history, before and after the shooting of getting in physical confrontations
4.  Has a history before and after of flashing his gun around and threatening people
5.  Told to stay in the car yet choose to follow a person he suspects is a burglar

I'd say there is ample reason to suspect, as suggested by Jeantels statements on and off the stand that Zimmerman LIKELY tried to detain Martin thus instigating the physical confrontation.

It's certainly plausible given the aforementioned facts

And, the only witness we have to the beginning of the confrontation is the shooter who has every incentive to lie to keep his ass out of jail

[iwantmass]

Let's look at the narrative here

1.  wanna be cop who has called 911 numerous times
2.  Says on this 911 call  “F—— punks. These a——-. They always get away.”
3.  Has a history, before and after the shooting of getting in physical confrontations
4.  Has a history before and after of flashing his gun around and threatening people
5.  Told to stay in the car yet choose to follow a person he suspects is a burglar

I'd say there is ample reason to suspect, as suggested by Jeantels statements on and off the stand that Zimmerman LIKELY tried to detain Martin thus instigating the physical confrontation.

It's certainly plausible given the aforementioned facts

And, the only witness we have to the beginning of the confrontation is the shooter who has every incentive to lie to keep his ass out of jail

I agree with 1-4 and have acknowledged the guy is a deadbeat with a history of poor decisions.  You left out that he has multiple 911 calls prior to this incident.  In all of those incidents that I recall, he acted as an observer. In fact, I believe in 1 of those 911 calls he said he felt uncomfortable confronting the ppl he was watching. 

As far as number 5, best I know the 911 operator told him to return to the car and that was where he was headed when trayvon cut him off. 

At a certain point, interpretation of evidence comes into play, seeing as no one witnessed the entirety of the sequence of events.  I. He probably could have minded his own business but that isn't the nature of a neighborhood watch.  Trayvon had every right to wonder why this guy was following him, and in his shoes, I might have made the same decision to find out why.  Thst being said, for me, all the evidence points to trayvon making initial contact and striking zimmerman first.

I.wish I could add colorful adjectives like 240 does and Insert my own fantasy into the case, but I'll stick to being honest and interpreting the evidence

[andreisdaman]

I agree with 1-4 and have acknowledged the guy is a deadbeat with a history of poor decisions.  You left out that he has multiple 911 calls prior to this incident.  In all of those incidents that I recall, he acted as an observer. In fact, I believe in 1 of those 911 calls he said he felt uncomfortable confronting the ppl he was watching. 

As far as number 5, best I know the 911 operator told him to return to the car and that was where he was headed when trayvon cut him off. 

At a certain point, interpretation of evidence comes into play, seeing as no one witnessed the entirety of the sequence of events.  I. He probably could have minded his own business but that isn't the nature of a neighborhood watch.  Trayvon had every right to wonder why this guy was following him, and in his shoes, I might have made the same decision to find out why.  Thst being said, for me, all the evidence points to trayvon making initial contact and striking zimmerman first.

I.wish I could add colorful adjectives like 240 does and Insert my own fantasy into the case, but I'll stick to being honest and interpreting the evidence

first of all you weren';t there and you are making stuff up to fit your case....if Zimmerdumb confronted trayvon as indications are that he did he most certainly impeded trayvon's progress...if an armed stranger WHO IS AN ADULT stopped you on a dark night WHAT WOULD YOU DO?.....if it were me I definitely would initiate contact before he got the drop on me.....

Zimmerdumb confronted a kid who he thought was an easy mark.....(we don't usually as human beings confront people we KNOW can kick our ass).....the kid was strong and overpowered Zimmerdumb....again the kid should have been left alone and should not have been stopped..he can walk wherever he wants when he wants....I'm quite sure Zimmerdumb did not identify himself as patrt of the "neighborhood watch"

if it were me in trayvon's shoes I would have whipped Zimmerdumb's ass and asked questions later....its idiotic to say you would not get phyisical with a guy who is following you and then conffronts you out of no where for no reason

[Straw Man]

I agree with 1-4 and have acknowledged the guy is a deadbeat with a history of poor decisions.  You left out that he has multiple 911 calls prior to this incident.  In all of those incidents that I recall, he acted as an observer. In fact, I believe in 1 of those 911 calls he said he felt uncomfortable confronting the ppl he was watching.  

As far as number 5, best I know the 911 operator told him to return to the car and that was where he was headed when trayvon cut him off.  

At a certain point, interpretation of evidence comes into play, seeing as no one witnessed the entirety of the sequence of events.  I. He probably could have minded his own business but that isn't the nature of a neighborhood watch.  Trayvon had every right to wonder why this guy was following him, and in his shoes, I might have made the same decision to find out why.  Thst being said, for me, all the evidence points to trayvon making initial contact and striking zimmerman first.

I.wish I could add colorful adjectives like 240 does and Insert my own fantasy into the case, but I'll stick to being honest and interpreting the evidence

I didn't  say evidence of poor decision making.  I said evidence of getting into physical confrontations.  I discount Zimmermans claims because he has every incentive to lie to save his own ass.   The only thing close to a witness is the woman on the phone and her story is consistent with the pre-existing conditions of a wanna be cop, frustrated that "they always get away" trying to stop a kid that he thinks is a thief

Like I previously said, none of  this matters.

Martin is still dead and Zimmerman is still a fat loser who continued to get in trouble and will almost certainly be in the news again for more confrontations

[Straw Man]

first of all you weren';t there and you are making stuff up to fit your case....if Zimmerdumb confronted trayvon as indications are that he did he most certainly impeded trayvon's progress...if an armed stranger WHO IS AN ADULT stopped you on a dark night WHAT WOULD YOU DO?.....if it were me I definitely would initiate contact before he got the drop on me.....

Zimmerdumb confronted a kid who he thought was an easy mark.....(we don't usually as human beings confront people we KNOW can kick our ass).....the kid was strong and overpowered Zimmerdumb....again the kid should have been left alone and should not have been stopped..he can walk wherever he wants when he wants....I'm quite sure Zimmerdumb did not identify himself as patrt of the "neighborhood watch"

if it were me in trayvon's shoes I would have whipped Zimmerdumb's ass and asked questions later....its idiotic to say you would not get phyisical with a guy who is following you and then conffronts you out of no where for no reason

even just following someone, especially at night and for no apparent reason is an act of intimidation and aggression