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Author Topic: Please I need help!  (Read 3097 times)
mysterious_shadow
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« on: July 19, 2012, 12:40:07 PM »

Hello guys,
After suffering obesity for 10 years i decided to go healthy and construct a great body. 4 years ago i was 330 lb. Now, after hard training and heavy weight lifting i am 210 lbs with 19% body fat and a muscular frame. I am a really easy gainer for both muscles and fats but now am facing extreme difficulty to lower my body fat more, specially in the chest and arms area. Now i decided to get into steroids to help me get the body i dreamed of many years ago. Some people are telling me that GH is the best for me along with some Winstrol and test. Others are saying that Trenbol with Test are the best so i can build muscles while cutting. My goal is be a big bodybuiler rather than being too much ripped but i don't want to get this while am still fatty as i will look like a balloon, so am neglecting Deca and these bulking steroids with water retention for the time being. Please i need help! What do u think you guys the best for me? I am 25 years old and 5'9 tall.
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beverast
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 12:48:37 PM »

So you cut naturally from obese to 19%. May I ask why you intend to stop now?
You can easily go down to 13-14% bodyfat without drugs.

If you are determined to do it anyway, note that higher bodyfat means more potential aromatisation, so choose your hormones/ancillaries accordingly.
Winstrol might be good for cutting, but it gave me terrible joint issues (had to take 2 weeks off because of shoulder issues that I attribute to Winstrol use).
At 19% you should be fine with a non aromatizing oral such as Oxandrolone, Turanabol, or well, Winstrol and some T3 (50-75mcg ed). No need to waste precious ressources on expensive shit when you're fat.

Not trying to be a dick here, just callin' it as I see it.
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2012, 12:55:15 PM »

So u think the best is to get to 15% and then start doing a cut or a bulk cycle?
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Onetimehard
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2012, 01:01:03 PM »

There are really no secrets out there, the average bodybuilders all do the same thing, they eat what they want and stay around 15% bodyfat and when it comes to getting shredded then cut back their carbs until they reach below 8% or even way lower.  What you should be focusing on is diet, cutting back your carb intake. See everyone thinks that people take different type of juice while they are shredded and it is true they do but not cause these steroids help them get shredded but because they don't benefit from taking them while they have a lot fat on them, that's why, nothing compares to dieting for losing fat, should you take winstrol, anavar, or primo while at 19%, personal I say NO, complete waist of time until you are perhaps below 12%. GH will help lose fat sure but it doesn't compare to a no carb or a low carb diet.
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beverast
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2012, 01:07:31 PM »

I'd try to get as low as possible bf% wise. That means 12-14% for most guys in my experience. That's when things become a bit trickier than "just don't pig out every single day". I know some people can get to and maintain way lower levels, but I'm talking absolute Average Joe here.

Forget about "bulking" unless you hit single digits. Steroids, especially a moderate dose of Test + an oral, aren't the magic bullet people make them out to be. You'll get some nutrient repartitioning for sure, but if you eat like crap, you will still look like crap.
It appears to be a really hard concept to grasp, but just try to eat reasonable. No "bulking", no "cutting". Find the right amount of food that works for you and stick to it. Takes a bit longer, but that's what I'd do. If you are determined to lower your bf%, you can cut on a way higher deficit than a natural without having to worry about losing precious lbm.

Just don't go through all that dieting bullshit just to balloon right up again from 15%.
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dj181
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2012, 01:09:17 PM »

hard and consistent training is much more important than "diet" IMO

in fact, if your training is spot on you can get away with a somewhat crappy "diet" just eat less cals

i'm a newbie as far as the chemical aspect is concerned so i'm not the right guy to ask in those regards

cool nick by the way Cool
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 01:25:30 PM »

you dont need help, you need to diet long term, as a lifestyle.

there is no easy overnight fix, not ih gh, not in steroids.

get bit lower bf and then do a cycle of steroids and see how you lie it.

stay away from fatburners, learn dieting properly.

train hard and consistent, its a long journey, with or without gear.

Thanks, you think man after reaching 12% is it better to cut or bulk. Btw liked ur thing natural bb = lol, hehehehe
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 01:50:15 PM »

you should never be above, say 12-14% imo, so a bulk is a no at that state.

infact, i dont think a bulk is ever necesary, except if you want to grow really huge.

the only time where a "bulk" is useful,imo, is right after one has been really lean, by really lean in mean 6% bodyfat.

yes, there is no natural bodybuilding, it should be called recreational/socialising fitness Grin

onetimehard, whom i respect alot,hes very knowledgeable and honest guy, says 15% in the "offseason", but i think thats a bit too high, not realy needed to get that fat for gains and extends the eventualy coming diet unnecesarly imo.
hes absolutely right when he says the fastest way to lose fat is by means of low or no carb diet, but that id only do on gear, i think he forgot to add that. Huh

you did very well so far, get down a bit more on bodyfat,it wont be hell dont worry, and then go on gear.
another advisory thing in regards to gear, dont let anyone talk you into a high disage cycle for the beginning.
i used to be a wild one, but grew to be kinda conservative as far dosages go.it all dpends on goals, for your goals you wont need much gear.

Thanks bro for the help! Actually i love to be a huge bodybuilder but as i said i wanted on a low body fat body so you can tell am muscular not more like a bulked balloon, lol. The question here, after getting to that body fat percentage what steroids combination do u think is best for me? GH with Test are enough? What about Trenbol, i read that Trenbol has an amazing results for both shredding and bulking! So what do u think? One more thing man, now while am dieting am getting out of energy too fast while working out cuz am low on carbs! and i dont wana lower the weights of what i used to lift! Any suggestion what to eat in a preworkout meal?! Thanks again man Smiley
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Marlo Stanfield
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2012, 05:33:31 PM »

Hello guys,
After suffering obesity for 10 years i decided to go healthy and construct a great body. 4 years ago i was 330 lb. Now, after hard training and heavy weight lifting i am 210 lbs with 19% body fat and a muscular frame. I am a really easy gainer for both muscles and fats but now am facing extreme difficulty to lower my body fat more, specially in the chest and arms area. Now i decided to get into steroids to help me get the body i dreamed of many years ago. Some people are telling me that GH is the best for me along with some Winstrol and test. Others are saying that Trenbol with Test are the best so i can build muscles while cutting. My goal is be a big bodybuiler rather than being too much ripped but i don't want to get this while am still fatty as i will look like a balloon, so am neglecting Deca and these bulking steroids with water retention for the time being. Please i need help! What do u think you guys the best for me? I am 25 years old and 5'9 tall.
it seems the popular consensus is for you to wait to reach a lower BF (around 12%) and then start to take steroids...

i dont neccesarily think like that. Any steroid IMO ( and most of it scientifically) :

1) Help you retain muscle during calorie restriction/dieting
2) boost your metabolism in more ways than one
3) give you a general sense of well being ( mostly with test..)
4) make recovery easier
.
.
.


with that being said, you can still benifit from SOME steroids even at 19% bf.

if you want to start juicing at 19% BF, i suggest you try this for 12 weeks, and see if you like the results or not

* T3 50mcg ED
* Test E /Test Cyp 250mg Every week


This is not even considered a cycle by many folks, but that alone will put you over your current plateu, and give you the kick you need to lower your BF..

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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2012, 03:09:38 AM »

oh, yes this is true, you could start a cycle right now, the body just will have some more estrogen issues with higher bodyfat, but thats no big deal anyway.

first cycle, something soft, just take how much is needed rather than how much is possible,haha.

and no, not gh from the getgo, spare that for later.

t3, not sure if i would at that stage, there will be rebound when you go off.

test or tren?well, start with test first.

as for the eating and having no energy on low carbs, this is mostly in the head, you get used to it after a while, and esp on steroids, the steroids will give you power and recovery and agressiveness and huge pumps despite low calories.

you should post a typical day of your diet, then ppl can see if there are corrections needed and what to change if you go on gear.
a natty cannot imo get away with a diet used by steroid guy.

Thanks guys, well i think i will wait more and give it a try for 2 month and see what will happen. Galeniko, estrogen issues like what you mean when there is a higher body fat? Guys check the pic i attached, i always use this Arab champ as a motivation for me, i like to have such body, and i promised myself to have it one day! I was just wondering what do u think guys he is on?  A combination of all world steroids or Cheesy ?

As for my diet i usually do so:
Morning: Oat mean, zero fat milk, 5 egg whites
Lunch: grilled chicken with salad or so, and sometimes a piece of brown bread
dinner: same as lunch or a light salad

sometimes i eat some sort of fruits or raw nuts, also i will start taking some protein shakes soon... Thanks guys!


* 216452_10150264799978989_8289474_n.jpg (57.42 KB, 720x540 - viewed 316 times.)
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darts
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2012, 06:39:40 AM »

I'm around the same bodyfat and was at one point years ago obese (just under 400 pounds). I am on zero carb diet + t3 + tren + low test and am losing about 4 pounds a week. There was very noticable strength loss the first few weeks, probably because of going from carbs to no carbs, but now my lifts are going slightly up (only a couple reps or a few pounds a week - but i'll take it). I don't see any water retention, most likely because I am not eating carbs. When I was eating carbs and on the same amount of tren + test I held a lot of water.

even with the tren and t3 I am still dieting my ass off eating 1600 - 1800 cals, only carbs coming from green high fiber veggies.
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2012, 07:04:36 AM »

I'm around the same bodyfat and was at one point years ago obese (just under 400 pounds). I am on zero carb diet + t3 + tren + low test and am losing about 4 pounds a week. There was very noticable strength loss the first few weeks, probably because of going from carbs to no carbs, but now my lifts are going slightly up (only a couple reps or a few pounds a week - but i'll take it). I don't see any water retention, most likely because I am not eating carbs. When I was eating carbs and on the same amount of tren + test I held a lot of water.

even with the tren and t3 I am still dieting my ass off eating 1600 - 1800 cals, only carbs coming from green high fiber veggies.


Strength loss while you were on test and tenbol ?!?! I would expect your strength levels to be on the roof with such cycle! I don't like cutting carbs at all. It won't work for me cuz though am an easy gainer body type i get extremely tired without at least some carbs before my workout with some fruits!! Also, as i said before i don't want to go back to small i weights i used 2 years ago just cause am on zero carbs, lol, i prefer to stay fat... Don't u think so? Thanks fo sharing man!
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darts
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2012, 07:11:58 AM »


Strength loss while you were on test and tenbol ?!?! I would expect your strength levels to be on the roof with such cycle! I don't like cutting carbs at all. It won't work for me cuz though am an easy gainer body type i get extremely tired without at least some carbs before my workout with some fruits!! Also, as i said before i don't want to go back to small i weights i used 2 years ago just cause am on zero carbs, lol, i prefer to stay fat... Don't u think so? Thanks fo sharing man!

I failed to mention that I was on the same amount of tren before I started this diet. But I wouldn't expect your strength to sore with no carbs no matter how much gear your on.
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ritch
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2012, 10:53:02 AM »

Is that guy in the pic on gear? Uh yeah, tonnes of it. And to the guy who said all you need to do is train, and diet does not really matter, shitty advice...
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dj181
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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2012, 11:21:17 AM »

Is that guy in the pic on gear? Uh yeah, tonnes of it. And to the guy who said all you need to do is train, and diet does not really matter, shitty advice...

well man, this is me when i was following my own "shitty advice"

i was lifetime natty there, and i was eating taco hell, wendy's, bk, mcds, but instead of a double with cheese, large fry and large coke, i ate a single with cheese, medium fry, and ice tea (for example)

anyways, that's just my own personal experience


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darts
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2012, 02:22:57 PM »

I don't think the eat-whatever-the-hell-you-want approach worked for him very well if he was obese
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2012, 03:45:13 PM »

well man, this is me when i was following my own "shitty advice"

i was lifetime natty there, and i was eating taco hell, wendy's, bk, mcds, but instead of a double with cheese, large fry and large coke, i ate a single with cheese, medium fry, and ice tea (for example)

anyways, that's just my own personal experience

Darts said it man, i have tendency to gain fat sooooo easily, if i was to stay on junky food i assure that am gona be a balloon along with muscles below my fats. I think ur body type is the point which helped u! I think u r a hard gainer?! Right? U reminded me of a guy with me in the gym, he eats twice as what i do and he is same size as my thigh , lool  ...I think the only way to approach my results is training, clean diet, and lots lots of gears lol...Thanks man
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2012, 03:51:50 PM »

ok, first off, if this is truly truly your goal and not just a short term fantasy/wish, then youll have to be prepared for the following in order to achieve that:

years of non stop steroid usage and definitely gh too.hard training and loads of good clean foods along with plenty of not so clean foods.

do you want this?itll be a long journey, but it could be lot of fun.

if thats the goal, start the gear immediately, and your current diet will need some adjustments.

this is pretty much peofessional level muscle mass/size.

Galeniko thanks for your motivations, lol, well your right i need gears , food and good training!! But as i told u am afraid to gain fat when am on high calorie diet to get that body! I will try to cut off some fats and then will get into gears immediately. But again man, i was told many times that GH isn't that much efficient as all people think! specially if you are on a 4 or less IU per day! And others are saying that GH must only be considered lately when the person has already experienced all steroids and no more gains from these steroids. So you can move to GH! what do u think guys?
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 03:53:30 PM »

yeah, on just steroids,with no gh, the eat whatever you want approach can easily lead to an estrogen filled permabulker

You mean without GH i will get back obese or what? didnt get ur point bro!
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 04:24:26 PM »

yes, dont worry, the lack of gh wont return you to obesity as long your diet is kinda clean.gh will let you get away with more bad foods, yes, and it is overhyped imo.
dont even consider gh until steroid gains come to a halt.if gh is added at that point, youll benefit the most,yes.

you can actualy jump on gear right now, as long youre willing to diet clean until say at 10%.you sound like you have the motivation to keep going long term, but its up to you.

Well yes man am somehow motivated ,but sometimes i feel like my goal is too far although i lift well now and am kind off big (as my friends tell me) with no supplements at all but i need more muscle definition to look more muscular rather than bulky and huge! On diet alone i don't think fats in tiny places would go.. Now am 100% clean, but again i suffered dieting for 3 years, and after allll that i still have some belly some chest fat and some on arms...But thanks for you guys for motivating me!! Btw,is it true that ppl used to be too much fat will suffer much more water retention than slim ones while we r on steroids??!?!?!? or it has nothing to do with that?  Thanks bro
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2012, 04:45:23 PM »

the fat will go with further dieting, took long to get it, will obviously take a while to go away.
once on steroids, the goalposts are moved, this means its impossible to tell if youll hold more water or not, this can be controlled by many ways anyway.
if you got decent amount of muscle and lean enough, you wont be much bloated anyway, imo, its more to do with diet than genetics and/or choice of drugs.
just keep going, every training, every meal every rest time is a step towards the right direction, dont focus too much on long term goals.have something set, yes, but focus on th e near future.consistency and drive/will over extended periods is the key.
how strong are your lifts, just to get an idea

My lifts are good but also not toooo high, don't forget naturally its hard to add ur lifting weights frequently.
Usually i overhead, bench press, and incline bench press the last set with 90 lbs dumbbells with 9 to 11 reps.
I bench press with barbell 230 lbs also for 8-10 reps
I squat 250 lbs for 8 reps too.
I try to add as much as i can but now am kind of in a plateau , specially that am dieting now.
You think is there a hope? Tongue
Btw how old r u man? How much long have u been into lifting? Whats ur goal? and what are ur stats Cheesy Thanks
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Overload
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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2012, 05:20:16 PM »

Don't worry about GH right now. Just get your training and diet in order.

Millions of people been in incredible shape from just a little AAS and proper diet.

Good luck!


Cool
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gatorr
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« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2012, 09:31:23 PM »

Yes keep dieting and training and when you start a cycle dont look in the mirror every day, once a week check yourself for changes. Building an impressive physique takes time so keep at it!! Yes at a higher bf you wont see the muscle your building like you would if you were 10% but it is there and as you get leaner you will start to look more muscluclar so i would start a cycle now if that is what you want. Just like other members suggested some test for strength and muscle save the tren and masteron when your leaner to see the amazing results that stuff gives you.
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2012, 08:45:31 AM »

youre definitely strong enough to start a cycle, those are very good lifts for a natty.

yes there is hope,lol, youll look good, dont worry, start with steroids, low doses first and dont worry about gh for a while, youll look great pretty soon if you keep dieting and training well.say like quite a transformation within 6 months time is possible.

im 35, trained since 15 years sometimes with years off in between, my stats?i stopped caring, heres my looks Grin

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc490/hadabusa/IMG_3317.jpg

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc490/hadabusa/DSCN0494.jpg

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc490/hadabusa/DSCN0447.jpg

my goal is to look something lie this into my 50s.

dont want no more mass, this is kinda low maintanance.

WOW man, i didn't expect u have such a built Cheesy Really amazing! Thick, wide and ripped. The nice thing about you is that you combine thickness with a ripped body! I don't like slim ripped bodies, actually not my goal!! Whats your body fat % man? What were the cycles you got the best results from? One more question bro, while you are on a cycle do u really feel like your strength is on the roof as i was told or is it just a muscle building issue?
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mysterious_shadow
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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2012, 12:18:32 PM »

thx man.
the thickness comes from mainly doing heavy compounds training i think and is pronounced by not being on much drugs.yeah, slim and ripped is just not impressive.the bodyfat there ill leave for others to judge, but thats very lean, few weeks out from contest leanness.

the best results yielding cycle?well, obviously, the first couple cycles gave best gains, btw i didnt do cycles when i started gear, i just stayed on permanently.the best days have been the ones on some test e, tren and 20mg daily halotestin after a diet i clearly remember these, epic strenght.
when you are on gear, youll like magicaly gain strenght and endurance for weighttraining like out of nowhere, its not even comparable to natural.what felt heavy as natty will feel like warmup weight,lol.
that is as long you eat enough to gain, when dieting on gear, youll still be much stronger than natty, but the lifts wont increase.on diet as long they stay knda same, youre fine.sometimes you can even gain strenght on diet,esp if you been natural before the diet.

but dont worry too much about strenght and lifts, concentrate just as much on squeezing and feeling the muscles work during exercise, a good mix between the two is best.focus on the proper movement and dont let the lifting ego sucker you into an injury.

 Cool
  Also i concentrate on compound exercises as u said man, but i neglect some painful ones cuz i suffered back pain a year ago, also i have some elbow pain, lol but its fine i just try to avoid painful exercises. Man i think ur body fat is like 3 % , i congrats u for the hard work uve done! I was told trenbol is amazing but too harsh on the liver...i won't consider Gh in the time being as u said, i think ill use test along with smthng else still not sure about. Also, my diet as u said must be adjusted. The day i'll start gear i will start eating like a bull lol but only clean food and whey protien shakes... You cnt imagine man how the days i suffered obesity r motivating me to have a muscular huge body i dream of all my life , but i dont know if steroids will help me to achieve it... Too many kinds of gears in the market and no ppl around me to really trust. Am still a bit confused about what to have as a first cycle to get max muscle gains, cut fat with minimum water retention... Anyways thnks man for the help, and any additional advices r really appreciated CHAMP Smiley
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