Lunatic kills 12 at 'Dark Knight Rises' screening in Colorado

[Shockwave]

Reread.



That crime rates skyrocketed via the prevalence of cheap and easy crack coccaine.

You need to reread
That wasnt a crime rate graph - it was percentage of murders committed with handguns, AFTER Chicago banned them.


Basically, Chicage banned handguns, the percentage of murders using handguns skyrocketed.

[Kwon_2]

What are you trying to say?

It skyrocketed due to TWA Flight 847 being hijacked by Hezbollah.

[MikMaq]

You need to reread
That wasnt a crime rate graph - it was percentage of murders committed with handguns, AFTER Chicago banned them.


Basically, Chicage banned handguns, the percentage of murders using handguns skyrocketed.

I'm aware, but crime rates all round went up with crack, not just petty crimes, but violent gun usage as well.

[Shockwave]

I'm aware, but crime rates all round went up with crack, not just petty crimes, but violent gun usage as well.

Thats all well and good, but that has nothing to do with PERCENTAGES of murders comitted with a handgun post-ban.
Im assuming you know what a percentage is, yes?

[MikMaq]

Thats all well and good, but that has nothing to do with PERCENTAGES of murders comitted with a handgun post-ban.
Im assuming you know what a percentage is, yes?

What  Is there like a paragraph missing 
Do you acknowledge the crack epidemic started right after these laws were putting in place   

[Shockwave]

What  Is there like a paragraph missing 
Do you acknowledge the crack epidemic started right after these laws were putting in place   

Sure.
You're saying murders trended up - and thats fine.
But of TOTAL murders in Chicago, the percentage committed with handguns skyrocketed after they banned them.

[BIG AL MCKECHNIE]

Looks like guncrime fell from time of the ban in 81 up till 86. Then it went thru the roof for next 2 years.

Yup, just when Crack hit the streets and the gangbangers started blowing each other away.
The upside is that if you look at the stats you will hopefully see that the victims were gangbangers too. So no loss.  Just a bit of late abortion in my eyes.

If abortion was freely available in USA without the stigma you would not have so many gangbangers causing mahem. They would not exist in the first place.
This is one reason for gun crime in usa being higher I think. Other countries kill their future troublemakers before they exist thru free easy abortion. A 16 year old girl in the ghetto who doesnt know who the father is is probably not going to produce a well rounded member of society.

The fact that the USA glorifies the act of killing "insurgents"  from Apache helicopters by shooting people on the ground in order to spread democracy also probably has an effect.  Hey if the President loves us to slaughter people then it must be a cool thing to do. Yeah?  
In the UK we killed people in Iraq too.  But we dont glorify it. The Scottish soldiers glorify the act of making friends and gaining trust of the local people. Walking freely and bravely amoung the people. The americans fly over at a safe distance and blast everything that moves from above.

The fact that USA is comprised of some people who have everything and more people who have nothing probably plays a  part too. Lack of social support structure and national free availability  of healthcare unless you can affort it probably breeds a mental condition of "I am not valued therefore I will shoot and kill and get what I want. Just like the President wants us to do in other countries, this is the american dream".

This only accounts for the randome gun crime. I'm not talking about mass murders like this one in Denver. There will always be people who love the thought of mass destruction (and I don't mean Bush and Blair authorising the Shock and Awe killing of 10,000 Iraqi's on the first night of desert storm 2).
If this guy didnt have guns he would have made a bomb.

[MikMaq]

You need to reread
That wasnt a crime rate graph - it was percentage of murders committed with handguns, AFTER Chicago banned them.


Basically, Chicage banned handguns, the percentage of murders using handguns skyrocketed.

Actually it went down for five years, than went up for five years,
homicides via beatens, rapes, and stabbings, etc are pretty consistent everywhere even in countries without guns.

The crack crimes were armed robberies, and gang war, not the shit down with your bare hands.

http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html

murders without weapons 6000 in america and 3000 in uk per 300 million person.
A 2:1 ratio which suggests it's pretty much the same when you include other factors, such as demographics, poverty, and drugs issues

Than BOOM!!! 48:1 for gun crime

[Donny]

Al... the British Army has always had a stricter Discipline about when to shoot. They really do drill into you not to shoot unless you have to but when you do..then do it 100%. This then, is the difference between a bum with a Gun and a trained Soldier..they used to call it in the army, " Controlled Agression"

[The True Adonis]

The 2nd Amendment should never be altered in any fashion.  End of Story.

[Shockwave]

Actually it went down for five years, than went up for five years,
homicides via beatens, rapes, and stabbings, etc are pretty consistent everywhere even in countries without guns.

The crack crimes were armed robberies, and gang war, not the shit down with your bare hands.

http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html

murders without weapons 6000 in america and 3000 in uk per 300 million person.
A 2:1 ratio which suggests it's pretty much the same when you include other factors, such as demographics, poverty, and drugs issues

Than BOOM!!! 48:1 for gun crime

Of course, youre comparing a tiny country that literally went and rounded up all firearms from its citizens to a country with the 2nd amendment.
Kind of a stupid comparison.

[MikMaq]

Of course, youre comparing a tiny country that literally went and rounded up all firearms from its citizens to a country with the 2nd amendment.
Kind of a stupid comparison.

The fuck so you openly admit that lax gun laws are the problem

[The True Adonis]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-11-07-finland-guns_N.htm

Gun ownership high, violence low in Finland
Updated 11/8/2007 6:23 AM |  Comments 40  |  Recommend 11   E-mail | Print |


By Alan Gomez and Oren Dorell, USA TODAY
Finland, a country with a high number of guns but a low rate of gun violence, appeared stunned by a school shooting that left eight people dead and may consider revising its accommodating gun laws, Finnish experts said Wednesday.
"This is quite a low-crime society in general," said Jan-Olof Nyholm, executive chief superintendent for the Finnish National Bureau of Investigation. "This type of tragedy hasn't happened (often)."

AFTERMATH: Finland mourns victims of school massacre
SHOOTING: Finnish school shooter dies after killing 8
Finnish Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen said the government will review its gun laws. "Definitely this will impact opinions about handguns," he said.

An 18-year-old entered Jokela High School in Tuusula on Wednesday and killed seven students and the school's principal before killing himself.

Jukka Savolainen, a criminologist at the Finnish Ministry of Justice, said gun crime is so rare in Finland because most of the country's firearms are hunting weapons. There are far fewer handguns, he said.

Savolainen, now a visiting professor at the University of Minnesota, compares gun ownership in Finland to gun ownership in the rural USA. He said many U.S. shootings are in urban centers, where the drug trade and gangs escalate violence. "I'm from Helsinki, and I don't know anybody who owns a gun," he said.

In Finland, anyone age 15 or older can apply for a gun license with local police if they are able to offer a valid reason. The easiest way to obtain a license is by joining a shooting or hunting club, as the Jokela gunman did in October.

"Ownership of guns is quite liberal in Finland, and mostly it's a question of people who are hunting who have the guns," Nyholm said.

Gun violence is rare. Finnish media reported that the last school shooting was in 1989 and involved a 14-year-old boy who killed two other students apparently for teasing him.

The USA has seen far more school shootings, but it is also much larger. Finland's population is 5.3 million, compared with about 300 million in the USA.

The latest multiple shooting in the USA was in April, when a student killed 32 people and then himself at Virginia Tech.

In both the Virginia Tech and Finland shootings, the gunmen recorded videos of themselves that anticipated the crimes to come. Nyholm said it was too early to say whether one inspired the other.

"How people are affected … by things that happen overseas, other people will have to guess. But the world has gotten smaller, and things that happen elsewhere can have an affect here," he said.

Contributing: Wire reports

[The True Adonis]

The fuck so you openly admit that lax gun laws are the problem

Guns are not any problem whatsoever.

[Donny]

Of course, youre comparing a tiny country that literally went and rounded up all firearms from its citizens to a country with the 2nd amendment.
Kind of a stupid comparison.

one thing i remember was Charlton Heston holding a rifle overhead in his hand and acting like he was again in the film planet of the apes...pathetic. "Itīs  a god given right to own a weapon".. the US is way out of control..has been for years.

[Parker]

So you are for the government keeping watch on businesses that use CNC or mills/lathes just in case they make weapons

LMAO, people like you are the problem, inviting the government to come in and babysit you...fuckin loser.

That means every bike builder, engine maker, metal worker/artist, or backyard enthusiast who has one. Or when an factory shuts down and sells off it's CNC mills and lathes.

[The True Adonis]

one thing i remember was Charlton Heston holding a rifle overhead in his hand and acting like he was again in the film planet of the apes...pathetic. "Itīs  a god given right to own a weapon".. the US is way out of control..has been for years.

It is a fundamental right for United States Citizens to own a gun.  

[Kwon_2]

Guns don't kill people.

People kill People.

[lovemonkey]

A lot of people in this thread that have read Freakonomics.

[The True Adonis]

Also, I have been shot before in the leg.  Entry/Exit wound by my friend on accident.  We were at a party and he picked up a gun laying on the kitchen counter, after I had told him it was loaded and indeed a real gun he fired it while holding it in a downward position and the trajectory was through my leg at extremely close range (about 7-10 inches gun barrel to my leg).  Luckily he didn`t point it at my head or somewhere else.  It was purely accidental though.

[Shockwave]

The fuck so you openly admit that lax gun laws are the problem

Sigh. No.
The UK is a terrible example - they are a tiny, isolated country. They do not have a supply chain like here in the US (coming north from central/south America), nor do they have the population we have.

If you went, right now, and collected all the registered firearms from everyone (read: law abiding citizens), all that would be left would be the criminals that didnt register their weapons/dont buy through legal channels, and you would have gun crime skyrocket akin to what happened with the handgun bans tried in various cities.

[Roger Bacon]

In theory yes stastically no, even if he had to settle with a sub par weapon the death count could be reduced. The fact that he might have to try slightly harder might of made him track able by the authorities.


We live in a society where everyone's single move is tracked by gps, and we refuse to have better tracking on guns it makes no sense.

That's because there should be no tracking of guns.

[The True Adonis]

If anyone wonders what getting shot is like- It feels like a giant hot needle or hot wire clothes hanger going through you.

[Donny]

It is a fundamental right for United States Citizens to own a gun.  

Yes and dumb..

[MikMaq]

Sigh. No.
The UK is a terrible example - they are a tiny, isolated country. They do not have a supply chain like here in the US (coming north from central/south America), nor do they have the population we have.

If you went, right now, and collected all the registered firearms from everyone (read: law abiding citizens), all that would be left would be the criminals that didnt register their weapons/dont buy through legal channels, and you would have gun crime skyrocket what happened with the handgun bans tried in various cities.

Guns are not any problem whatsoever.

A population like we have, there's 60 million people in a area the size of california the FUCK


Of course it's harder for us, never said it wasn't, and in fact I never said banning the fucking guns in the first place. I said restricting access, by various fucking means, how hard is this to understand.  
 

Guns are not any problem whatsoever.

Even in the article you mention guns are used primarily for hunting and not self defense.