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Author Topic: diet, fat-loss while "on"  (Read 7462 times)
dj181
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« on: July 24, 2012, 02:36:33 PM »

i've been at 9-10% for the past few months but i'm thinking bout really going all-out and hitting a legit sub-6

i'm not too sure exactly how many cals i've been comsuming the past few months, but i'd say somewhere around 2000-2500

for "dieting" i can handle going as low as 800 cals per day

anyways, my question is... should i cycle my calorie deficit with my "on" time?

meaning, should i go with ultra low cals for 3 weeks while i'm the sdrol, and then go back to my normal intake for one week while i have my off time?

i'm off right now, and for the past 3 days i've eaten about 600-1000 cals each day
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dj181
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 02:22:14 AM »

keep calories always about the same, withing 200+- range.

imo.

yeah, that could be the ticket man, coz the metabolites are still present within the cell for up to 2 weeks after the last dose

also another important point for me is not to load up on the cals after i hit the desired bodyfat level, coz i seem to do this pretty often, which i guess comes from being so deprived of cals while "dieting" ie. starving Grin
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 10:16:55 AM »

I did 800 calories a day for about a week and fainted while I was benching. Luckily I was really weak then,  it was only 185 pounds but it fell straight onto my head. I wasn't on gear at the time so that might make a HUGE difference, but be careful lol.
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 10:31:45 AM »

600-1000 cals a day will have you lookin like that skinny guy here who posts pics of his "amazing biceps" thread...
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dj181
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 12:39:51 PM »

that's true, i wouldn't keep it that low for more than 2 weeks, and i'll maybe even just go 10 days with it

it will be kind of a kick start so to speak, and then after the 2 weeks or 10 days i'll go more moderate, like say 1500-1800
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dj181
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2012, 07:11:55 AM »

i'm into my 5th day on this ultra lo cal gig, and last nite and today i feel/felt very energized and even a bit aggressive, which is strange coz i'm only eating roughly 800 cals per day, and i've been off the sdrol for 1 week now Huh

maybe it's the bodies heightened response to being so deprived of cals? the old "fight or flight" phenomenon

i was reading a bit of Lyle McDonald's quick fat-loss protocol, and he advises that guys who are already relatively lean sub-10 or so, just follow this ultra lo cal gig for just 10 days, so i think that sounds a good plan Cool
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 09:21:44 AM »

i'm into my 5th day on this ultra lo cal gig, and last nite and today i feel/felt very energized and even a bit aggressive, which is strange coz i'm only eating roughly 800 cals per day, and i've been off the sdrol for 1 week now Huh

maybe it's the bodies heightened response to being so deprived of cals? the old "fight or flight" phenomenon

i was reading a bit of Lyle McDonald's quick fat-loss protocol, and he advises that guys who are already relatively lean sub-10 or so, just follow this ultra lo cal gig for just 10 days, so i think that sounds a good plan Cool
Sometimes low cals will energize you at first but if too long you lose energy and strength.
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dj181
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 11:00:44 AM »

Sometimes low cals will energize you at first but if too long you lose energy and strength.

exactly, and that's why i'll keep it to 10 days

by the way, what's your thoughts on this whole protein issue?

yeah dude, that's a bit of a loaded question, so you don't gotta answer it if you don't want to Wink
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2012, 12:30:53 PM »

exactly, and that's why i'll keep it to 10 days

by the way, what's your thoughts on this whole protein issue?

yeah dude, that's a bit of a loaded question, so you don't gotta answer it if you don't want to Wink
Protein is overrated most of it is money related supplement companies trying to make money. 60% of bodyweight in grams is fine.
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tbombz
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2012, 12:32:44 AM »

starve yourself for as long as you can tolerate it, train when your not sore anymore and focus on squeezing the muscle, eat some protein a couple times a day. keep calories as low as possible, do as much cardio as you can tolerate, when the hunger starts to drive you crazy go ahead and eat whatever your craving and untill you get so full you get sick of eating from stomach discomfort then proceed back to the starvation and cardio and training. honestly its this simple, ESPECIALLY on gear. you wont lose muscle, you dont have to "eat to lose" , you dont need to eat every few hours, you dont need to eat calories every day, just a bit of protein to ward off muscle loss and a big calorie defecit for extended periods of time. your metabolism wont slow down as long as you eat that meal of whatever your craving at a couple times a week. every few days should be fine. but listen to your muscles and how your feeling.
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dj181
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2012, 04:54:41 AM »

so far i've lost over an inch off my waist, and i "look" tighter and leaner, and i've lost about 5 pounds

but the problem with this is... how much of that loss was actually fat?

you see, it could be fat, it could be muscle (although i pray that it isn't), it could be water, and it also could be what a very knowlegdable trainer friend of mine from years ago used to call "food in the gut"

this "food in the gut" is literally that, "food in the gut" lol

it's not fat, not muscle, not water, and it comes from overeating and even normal eating, so once you undereat/starve most of this "food in the gut" will clear out
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dj181
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2012, 07:10:18 AM »

the first couple pounds coming off will be water.

after a week aim for something like a 1-2lbs weight loss weekly.



what's your thoughts on adding muscle while losing fat at the same time?

years back, i did it naturally (with the help of creatine Grin) and i gained 5 pounds over the course of 5 weeks and went down 1% bodyfat, from 12.4% to 11.2% and my leg strength went up quite a bit over that 5 week period, as i added over 100 pounds to my leg press

IMO, it's probably much harder to do that when you're a bit leaner (meaning 8-9%) which i appear to be right now
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2012, 12:06:24 PM »

starve yourself for as long as you can tolerate it, train when your not sore anymore and focus on squeezing the muscle, eat some protein a couple times a day. keep calories as low as possible, do as much cardio as you can tolerate, when the hunger starts to drive you crazy go ahead and eat whatever your craving and untill you get so full you get sick of eating from stomach discomfort then proceed back to the starvation and cardio and training. honestly its this simple, ESPECIALLY on gear. you wont lose muscle, you dont have to "eat to lose" , you dont need to eat every few hours, you dont need to eat calories every day, just a bit of protein to ward off muscle loss and a big calorie defecit for extended periods of time. your metabolism wont slow down as long as you eat that meal of whatever your craving at a couple times a week. every few days should be fine. but listen to your muscles and how your feeling.
Great advice.

Roll Eyes
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Mr Nobody
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2012, 04:21:04 PM »

do you think the same applies when dieting low calories , and on steroids?

i agree, for a natty, they dont need any extra protein really
I say more protein on roids but not much more, cause they tend to push it into the cells more than a natty
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dj181
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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2012, 05:23:38 PM »

the funny thing about the protein gig is that since i've been cycling on/off for the past 4 months i've only been eating roughly 100-120 grams of protein per day during the whole course of the last 4 months, and guess what?

i've added over a full inch to each arm and almost 2 full inches to each leg and my strength as gone up accordingly

since i've been on this ultra low cal gig, i'm only getting in roughly 50-60 protein grams daily, and my stength has been maintained, which is a clear indindication that i'm not losing any muscle

i have a real crap "diet" and i don't eat tuna and skinless chicken breasts, so that's basically why my protein intake is so damn low

right now my breakfast is coffee with milk and sugar and half of a ham and cheese sandwich and then for dinner i eat breaded chicken strips or ckicken wings with sause Grin

i still keep the total cals at round 800 daily but most of these cals are not coming from protein, and it's not hurting me

so in my opinon this protein push is a load of horseshit lol

flame on
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dj181
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2012, 04:31:31 AM »

nah its not horseshit.its that your approach will work too, just with not the same good results and will take longer.
is the difference which wont be too big worth it, thats the question.
i find it easier to diet on clean food.
and to get into proper contest shape a clean diet will be necesary for last couple weeks, but youre not aiming for contest shape, so yeah why bother.


i assume your talking sub-4 when you say "contest shape" right?

i was able to hit sub-6 with this method, and on a side note i stayed at this level of bodyfat for well over 3 months no probs

it was relatively easy to hold and maintain it (i just keep up the training and made sure not to over-eat) and i felt good and energetic thoughout this whole time, but it was not so easy getting there lol
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dj181
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2012, 04:47:51 AM »

and on a side note, 15 said that 5.5% is the absolute lowest level of bf a lifetime natty can achieve, and i was a lifetime natty at that point in time Grin

but.... 15 also seemed to say something to the fact that genetics pretty much mean fuck all with regards to "bodybuilding" success (as he was saing to the peeps on here "take these combination of drugs and you too will become mr. o" Roll Eyes when in fact genetics are the CORNERSTONE to bodybuilding success

genetics as far as response to proper training and response to the drugs and tolerance to them as well, and also with structure and joint size and muscle length, and all of those things are genetically determined
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dj181
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2012, 05:46:50 AM »

yeah maintaining is easier than getting there by a huge margin

yeah, contest shape, 4%.thats a long way from 6%, where many things can go wrong.

but why use this method for suboptimal results?is it lazyness?results will be better with the oldschool method, and faster.
genetics are everything, drugs come in later.look no further than all the people on gear who look like shit.

then look at some black guys who dont know what a gym is and dwarf and outlean the geared up guys.

you got me dude, i use that method coz it's much easier than "clean" eating

i don't really have much of a sweet tooth, so simple carbs aren't so hard to avoid, but i just love me some greasy and fatty foods Grin

and also, i just hate the idea of following others and doing what they tell me to do, so i try and make sure that when they tell me to turn left that i turn right Cool in fact, i had some phone consultations with Mike Mentzer shortly before he passed, and he used to call me "wild horse" coz i wouldn't follow his exact training protocol and i was jumping around from thing to thing lol

IMO genetics are the cornerstone to bodybuilding success, but you gotta be sure and train right in order to make sure your genetic potential is fullfilled
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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2012, 04:04:54 PM »

I never cycled just kept dropping
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« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2012, 04:06:24 PM »

keep calories always about the same, withing 200+- range.

imo.
X2
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Mr Nobody
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2012, 04:19:01 PM »

yeah maintaining is easier than getting there by a huge margin

yeah, contest shape, 4%.thats a long way from 6%, where many things can go wrong.

but why use this method for suboptimal results?is it lazyness?results will be better with the oldschool method, and faster.
genetics are everything, drugs come in later.look no further than all the people on gear who look like shit.

then look at some black guys who dont know what a gym is and dwarf and outlean the geared up guys.
Spot on or everyone would be Mr O.
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« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2012, 05:40:26 PM »

yeah dj181, but then why ask people for tips when you dont care about the optimal way?

you ask and then come back and say something like "i wont do it either way, its all overrated"

why should ppl bother replying to someone with that attitude.

My thoughts exactly.

dj181 you should at least try other methods instead of twisting everything around just for the sake of making it ''your own''...

Just food for thought.
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dj181
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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2012, 03:50:19 AM »

My thoughts exactly.

dj181 you should at least try other methods instead of twisting everything around just for the sake of making it ''your own''...

Just food for thought.


actually i did try clean dieting for awhile (ie. chicken breasts, raw veggies, and some brown rice from time to time) and my strength plummeted and i got flatter

IMO it was because of too low of a fat and carb intake intake (carb fill the muscle the water, and fats are needed for proper hormone regulation)

and yeah fellas, i'll admit that i was a bit of a dickhead here, so sorry bout that

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« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2012, 10:41:42 AM »

i say i agree, however, on roids, how much protein one needs depends on the following factors

-how much carbs and fats are consumed

-how much cardio or moving around(physical demanding job)is done

-workout frequency
yes, tbombs shouldnt give out any dieting advice.he is right on having protein frequently and go into starvation on steroids, but where i strongly disagre with is that one should stuff themselves with whatever they want during a cutting diet.
i dont even find recarb days necesary until the diet is all done with.
im no authority on fatloss, but i get very lean very fast following the above.
but it happens to the best that they stuff themselves with bad food during a diet bc of cravings becoming unbearable, if it happens, just wait till youre starving badly again before next meal, thatll reduce the damage done.but theres no way you can get shredded with tbombs advice.


LOL

no way you can get shredded by doing lots of cardio, eating very little calories with a moderate amount of protein while using steroids and lifting weights Huh?


 Grin


guys this shit isnt rocket science!!!!!

eat less, move more !!!!!!   stop worrying about all the bullshit !!! "starvation mode", "eat to lose", blah blah blah !!!! its all bullshit !! just need a little bit of protein to ward off muscle loss and your good to go !!!

EAT LESS, MOVE MORE !!! KISS !!!!
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Luolamies
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« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2012, 02:17:03 PM »

actually i did try clean dieting for awhile (ie. chicken breasts, raw veggies, and some brown rice from time to time) and my strength plummeted and i got flatter

IMO it was because of too low of a fat and carb intake intake (carb fill the muscle the water, and fats are needed for proper hormone regulation)

and yeah fellas, i'll admit that i was a bit of a dickhead here, so sorry bout that

I understand what you are saying. You want to be in shape, but you don't want to kill yourself getting/staying there. So if i was you, here's what i'd do: eat a normal breakfast then train few hours after that, eat something light and nutritious for PWO and then have something like steak and vegetables for dinner. That's still low calorie, highly nutritious, more or less how "normal" people eat and it's easy to follow. I bet you'll feel good too.

just my 2 cents.
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