In a world without a "GOD".

[NarcissisticDeity]

Have an experience for youself ND.

read it in it's entirety , this puts to bed your claim from personal experience but you wont accept it because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Again even if God were true I wouldn't worship him or want to have any personal experiences with him especially not the God of the Christian bible

[NarcissisticDeity]

``Wrong see above , personal experience is NOT proof. You wont get away with typing that , I'm sure you believe it but you put lots of faith in things you have no proof for. par for the course. `` ND


so do you.... loving your family..... can not be proven has to be taken by faith

The two or not comparable , family is real , God is a story.

[Radical Plato]

I agree, but you can not prove you love someone to someone else. So I say to you you only think you love them you don`t really know right

Love isn't words it's an action - it's loving action that conveys the concept of love, so of course you know if someone lobves you, it is evident in every action towards you, not that complicated, it amazes me how people get confused by the concept of love, their are many type of love, motherly love, brotherly love etc... but they all equate to the same thing - showing an overt concern for someone else through action, nothing to do with saying I love you - it's determined by the way you treat other people.

[Man of Steel]

LMAO ' peer-reviewed ' by other Apologetics? stop trying to compare Apologetics to Science and use words like peer-reviewed , Apologetics is damage control nothing more and lots of damage has been done to God and Christianity 

Wrong see above , personal experience is NOT proof. You wont get away with typing that , I'm sure you believe it but you put lots of faith in things you have no proof for. par for the course.

You keep clinging to there is something wrong with ME if I don't experience what you have , I'm just not trying hard enough , or my heart just isn't open , or not being honest. Don't blame me because I don't believe what you do.

Yep, peer-reviewed by other theologians.  Fact that you aren't a theist doesn't change that.

I don't think anything is wrong with you.  You're just supremely confident about that which you don't understand.  I'm suggesting that you try the risen Christ for yourself and close the gap.

[tu_holmes]

The two or not comparable , family is real , God is a story.

We've had this conversation on here before... As I've said... I  can PHYSICALLY assist and aid... I PHYSICALLY can touch family.

God doesn't PHYSICALLY touch anything. No matter what you try to say, God doesn't put his HAND on you.

[OTHstrong]

I don't have a desire or need to prove I love anyone. And again personal experience is not proof , people have claimed they can and do talk to the dead doesn't mean it's true. people believe they are Napoleon doesn't make it true , people believe all sorts of things doesn't make them true and again have you thought about the possibility that you might be mistaken?

When you say you have a personal relationship with God what does that even mean? 

OK we are getting somewhere, you still aren`t clear at what I am saying but my fault not yours. I am not trying to prove to you God exist. I am trying to prove to you that atheist such as yourself use the same type of reasoning and faith Christians use in their everyday lives.

 You said it yourself you don`t have to prove to anyone your love but nevertheless the love you speak of has to be taken by faith so again my point is you guys are being hypocrites when addressing the that we are stupid because we rely on faith when in fact you too rely on faith every single day.

[Man of Steel]

read it in it's entirety , this puts to bed your claim from personal experience but you wont accept it because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Again even if God were true I wouldn't worship him or want to have any personal experiences with him especially not the God of the Christian bible

A block of text won't change a thing about what I've experienced or that others have experienced or that you could experience.  I'll be brutally honest here, I could care less what it says LOL and I don't mean that to be ugly either so don't worry with the "I'm close-minded" stuff.  Most likely I'll read it tomorrow at lunch out of respect.  It may help you sleep tonight, but it doesn't eliminate the fact that you haven't had an experience of your own.

[OTHstrong]

Love isn't words it's an action - it's loving action that conveys the concept of love, so of course you know if someone lobves you, it is evident in every action towards you, not that complicated, it amazes me how people get confused by the concept of love, their are many type of love, motherly love, brotherly love etc... but they all equate to the same thing - showing an overt concern for someone else through action, nothing to do with saying I love you - it's determined by the way you treat other people.

again an action can not prove love is so state an action that proves you love someone. Love is by faith only, anyone can claim it and doesn`t make it so

[NarcissisticDeity]

OK we are getting somewhere, you still aren`t clear at what I am saying but my fault not yours. I am not trying to prove to you God exist. I am trying to prove to you that atheist such as yourself use the same type of reasoning and faith Christians use in their everyday lives.

 You said it yourself you don`t have to prove to anyone your love but nevertheless the love you speak of has to be taken by faith so again my point is you guys are being hypocrites when addressing the that we are stupid because we rely on faith when in fact you too rely on faith every single day.

Again you can't compare the two , family is real , God is a story. I don't have faith my family loves me or vice versa I ask them and get an answer and they prove it with their actions , you can't compare that to a belief in a supernatural being who will reward you with eternal life

[Man of Steel]

read it in it's entirety , this puts to bed your claim from personal experience but you wont accept it because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Again even if God were true I wouldn't worship him or want to have any personal experiences with him especially not the God of the Christian bible

Please understand my intentions here.  I fully....FULLY...underst and you have no desire to believe or pursue a relationship with Christ.  I have absolutely no confidence whatsoever that my words will even slightly alter your opinions let alone change your mind, syntaxmachine's mind, avxo's mind, etc....  As of this stage in your life you have absolutely, 100% made your choice. 

My reasons for continuing on have to do with others that have not.

[Radical Plato]

You know you love them when you care about their wellbeing, when you express this concern through kind and supportive actions, by desiring good outcomes for them.  You know you hate them when you want to see them all dead either by your own hand or someone elses.  Stop confusing the issue, it isn't hard to know when people love something.  People gravitate to the things they love, if people love chocolate, they eat it regularly, if they don't love chocolate, they avoid it.  I know for some God Botherers they have trouble with simple logic like this, but for normal people, it's not too hard too work out.

A complete stranger can do this too.

Exactly, One cannot say they love someone and yet hold contempt for the rest of humanity - Love is a concern for the whole of humanity, it's not something you can segregate and say I love this person but not that person, if you are a loving individual, that concern will be applied to all people, not just a select few, that's where love has been corrupted, two people saying too one another that they love one another, when in reality they are together because they derive some benefit from the other, the moment one or the other no longer benefits but may even suffer because of the relationship, it is over, it doesn't mean that they fall out of love, they were never in love in the first place.  I believe Love is an art-form, and like any art-form it needs to be practised, not an easy thing to do.  Ironically, this is why Jesus stated that you must love your enemy, as anybody can love those that think were wonderful, the moment you can extend kindness and compassion to your enemy is the moment you have realised what love is, the majority of people can't do this, as they have a skewed conception of love, generally associating it with erotic love and not realising the deeper meaning of it, and because they think they know what love is they never seek for a deeper understanding, the path to understanding love is too first admit that maybe you don't know what it is.

[NarcissisticDeity]

A block of text won't change a thing about what I've experienced or that others have experienced or that you could experience.  I'll be brutally honest here, I could care less what it says LOL and I don't mean that to be ugly either so don't worry with the "I'm close-minded" stuff.  Most likely I'll read it tomorrow at lunch out of respect.  It may help you sleep tonight, but it doesn't eliminate the fact that you haven't had an experience of your own.

I knew it wouldn't change anything because you have given up reason and logic in favor for faith and belief. You can't think for yourself and prefer some ancient text to do it for you.

I've honestly asked myself is there a God? it's how I became and Atheist.

[King Shizzo]

Rhodes scholars of peace.

[bighead]

Please understand my intentions here.  I fully....FULLY...underst and you have no desire to believe or pursue a relationship with Christ.  I have absolutely no confidence whatsoever that my words will even slightly alter your opinions let alone change your mind, syntaxmachine's mind, avxo's mind, etc....  As of this stage in your life you have absolutely, 100% made your choice.  My reasons for continuing on have to do with others that have not.

 I do. And dont ever underestimate that again, OK PETER?

[OTHstrong]

Again you can't compare the two , family is real , God is a story. I don't have faith my family loves me or vice versa I ask them and get an answer and they prove it with their actions , you can't compare that to a belief in a supernatural being who will reward you with eternal life

But I am not talking about God or family so that part is irrelevant. I am talking about love is given or accepted by faith alone, you can not deny this, hence this puts you in the same category as you questioning the next guy who you said can claim to be Napoleon but doesn``t make it so.

[Radical Plato]

again an action can not prove love is so state an action that proves you love someone. Love is by faith only, anyone can claim it and doesn`t make it so

You truly are ignorant, many people claim to love without knowing what it is, if the declaration is backed up by action, then it is love, not hard to work out, if my enemy is hanging from a cliff and I have an opportunity to be rid of him and I take that opportunity, that is NOT LOVE, if I save his life - that is LOVE.  I feel sorry for the people in your life, you have trouble understanding the most basic of human emotions.  An infant has a broader and deeper understanding of LOVE than you, between these ridiculous arguments and your evangelical religious posts I wonder what could have truly happened to you to get so lost and confused.  No one is suggesting that LOVE is easy to practice, but knowing what it is can be comprehended by even the simple minded.  I think you suffer from paralysis by analysis.

[OTHstrong]

You truly are ignorant, many people claim to love without knowing what it is, if the declaration is backed up by action, then it is love, not hard to work out, if my enemy is hanging from a cliff and I have an opportunity to be rid of him and I take that opportunity, that is NOT LOVE, if I save his life - that is LOVE.  I feel sorry for the people in your life, you have trouble understanding the most basic of human emotions.  An infant has a broader and deeper understanding of LOVE than you, between these ridiculous arguments and your evangelical religious posts I wonder what could have truly happened to you to get so lost and confused.  No one is suggesting that LOVE is easy to practice, but knowing what it is can be comprehended by even the simple minded.  I think you suffer from paralysis by analysis.

Says who says you. It doesn`t matter you can not know fo certain someone loves you, you can only believe they do and that ois my whole point, love is a thing of faith. No action can definitively prove love period, get over it.

[bighead]

Says who says you. It doesn`t matter you can not know fo certain someone loves you, you can only believe they do and that ois my whole point, love is a thing of faith. No action can definitively prove love period, get over it.

[Radical Plato]

Says who says you. It doesn`t matter you can not know fo certain someone loves you, you can only believe they do and that ois my whole point, love is a thing of faith. No action can definitively provelove period, get over it.

That is absurd, by your definition you can't know anything for certain, if somebody shoots you in the face and then declares they hate you, you don't take that on faith and say to them, you can't know for sure that you hate me, your emotion of hate is based on faith, you can't truly believe that, your actions prove nothing, you can shoot me in the face as much as you like and I will never believe that you hate me as i know there is no way for you to actually prove it to me.  Your argument is so absurd to make me wonder about your mental state, for someone who Bothers God on a regular basis it amazes me that you struggle so much with the concept of love.  You must drive your friends and family nuts.  You see abstraction where there is none.

[bighead]

That is absurd, by your definition you can't know anything for certain, if somebody shoots you in the face and then declares they hate you, you don't take that on faith and say to them, you can't know for sure that you hate me, your emotion of hate is based on faith, you can't truly believe that, your actions prove nothing, you can shoot me in the face as much as you like and I will never believe that you hate me as i know there is no way for you to actually prove it to me.  Your argument is so absurd to make me wonder about your mental state, for someone who Bothers God on a regular basis it amazes me that you struggle so much with the concept of love.  You must drive your friends and family nuts.  You see abstraction where there is none.

Ekul, way too much intellectualizing, relax.

[Radical Plato]

Ekul, way too much intellectualizing, relax.

Took very little intellect actually, the concept is understood by a child, I am always relaxed, even when discussing serious topics.

[bighead]

Took very little intellect actually, the concept is understood by a child, I am always relaxed, even when discussing serious topics.

ok.

[syntaxmachine]

Versed in regards to the topic at hand....not versed in every apologetic topic.

Besides, your waaay too smart for me.

I don't think I've ever played the "HAHA I'M SMART UR DUMB!!" atheist card on you, have I? If so, it was when I was grumpy, and I apologize. We can have fruitful discussions without any assumptions about intelligence holding us back

Let me know if I spelled and punctuated this reply correctly.

It receives my stamp of approval (I'd complain about the unnecessary use of ellipses but I need to prioritize my efforts here)!

[syntaxmachine]

    The Argument from Personal Experience is also a circular argument.  In other words: “The proof of God is that I believe in Him.”  The conclusion is assumed in the premise. These kinds of statements are absolutely worthless in establishing the truth.

    If you are asked to prove the existence of god, don't bother stating your personal relationship with him as proof.  Saying so will only make you appear to be a brainwashed individual who cannot distinguish fantasy from reality.  As an argument, it carries no weight, and does nothing to counter the mountain of biblical errors, obscenities and absurdities.

I don't know what the "Argument from Personal Experience" is supposed to look like, but it doesn't have to be circular. Here's a simple version I invented just now, using probably the most common inference human beings make:

1. I just had an amazing experience completely outside of anything else I've ever felt.
2. The best explanation for this amazing experience is that I just came into contact with God.
3. Therefore, I just came into contact with God.

I'm sure something like this happens in a religious person's mind: they experience whatever it is they experience, then seek an explanation. They fasten upon what they feel is the best explanation, and this is their justification for what they believe about the experience. This is perfectly valid logically, even if it ends up not being true (for example, I think there are better explanations for religious experience out there).

In other words, there's nothing logically wrong with arguing from personal experience.

[Voice of Doom]

Your reality tunnel or (belief system) is generally defined by genetics, parenting, early schooling, sexual awakening and blind luck.  That's why societal evolution tends to happen slowly.  There are set restrictions that humans must conform to at each state of growth.  You can't pass to the 4th grade until you've conformed to the requirements of the third grade and so on.  Humans have simplistic needs and tools to aquire those needs.  Crying, whinning behavior tends to bring mommy and love is the reward.  Dad's love requires a more complex set of skills.  Friends and packs require further sets of skills and conforming to succeed.  The sexualy awakening adds another powerful hormonal change and comes with all that baggage.  I would wager to say that most men are unconsiously attracted to their first love/sex girlfriend.  Maybe even marry women who resemble them.  Higher Education continues to conforming forces.  To get that important degree that provides money (survival tickets) needed to live you have to agree with their thoughts and memorize their appointed agendas.

Add 30 years of wage slaving, kikds of their own, debt and physical deterioation its no wonder this is the planet of walking wounded people.  All of your belief systems (BS) are an expression of the creation of your reality tunnel based off of specific neurological imprints at different time in human growth.  These reality tunnels also do an amazing job of rejecting infromation that doesn't fit into your "correct belief" system.  Welcome to all politics and religions here.

At the end of the day a Born again Christians would be born again Hindus if the set of their live was slightly altered and vice versa 

To be born is to be brainwashed.