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a_ahmed
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« Reply #750 on: January 14, 2013, 06:57:19 PM » |
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Catholic means universal. It is the Roman church which in essence was the primary christianity. Everything else were offshoots. Then again the real original christians were neither, they were jews who followed the law and the teachings of Jesus.
The east and western church split, the eastern church was the orthodox and the western the roman catholic church. That's why roman catholic church is so pagan in the sense that it tried to appease the pagans. Hence statues and worship of statues of Jesus, mary, etc... 'mary mother of god' etc... etc...
Later movements were in fact revisionist movements such as protestantism which was adopted by the british king because of political and personal motives of wanting to mary/divorce/etc...
The only true christians were the followers of Jesus, the law, and followers of his teachings, etc... everything later was a battle for 'what christianity is'. That's why Paul had such opposition and was viewed as a fraud, that's why the church within itself had so much strife about who Jesus was, who God is, etc... and the trinity. The councils, etc...
A lot of debate happened.
In fact in the 1500s, Martin Luther is the one acredited to the protestant movement, the printing of the bible etc...
Making the bible 'available' for the common man as up to a point ALL preaching was in latin and only the elite knew latin and could have access to the bible.
The catholic priests usd to 'buy people their way into heaven' a once common practice of taking money to literally buy your way into heaven. Protestantism was a response to the many corruptions of the church in some ways.
Then you have further offshoots coming into america like the puritans, southern baptists, pentecostals,
All basically renewed and renewed movements.
Catholicism is really the one that stays true to the original roman church which blended with the roman pagans and took shape. Catholic roughly translates to 'universal' as in for everyone. "The universal church". I went to catholic school myself, but I also ventured into the protestant church.
Protestants for example are opposed to idols that catholics engage in.
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bigbobs
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« Reply #751 on: January 14, 2013, 06:59:10 PM » |
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No emotional rhetoric was used, just scripture. God's law is always followed. Salvation is a gift from God based on our faith in Christ. Scripture is not "man made", that's a convenient "go to" expression used by opponents of Christianity that has no merit or weight whatsoever. I didn't blame the Roman church for anything, I indicated that catholicism and christianity are not the same thing. The presentation of Christianity was not changed by me in anything I said.
A gift is not conditional on faith in something. If Jesus did die for our sins, why would we then have to believe that he did just in order for his death's purpose to be fulfilled? |
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #752 on: January 14, 2013, 07:00:45 PM » |
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Salam bobber  been a while my bro |
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bigbobs
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« Reply #753 on: January 14, 2013, 07:01:45 PM » |
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Salam bobber been a while my bro Yup thought I'd drop by Seems like there's a lot to catch up on and I do have to get going but will peek again later. |
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #754 on: January 14, 2013, 07:05:52 PM » |
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Did you know at one point the 'masses' being held, the preacher would never face the people, he would face them their back. It was in recent history that these 'small' things were changed. All masses were in latin too. So people were just led like blind sheeple. Whatever they were told is what they would believe, unable to read the scriptures for themselves, unable to understand latin, etc...
Protestantism also led the way to abolish the impermissibility of clergy marrying. As you know catholic priests are not allowed to marry and are sworn to celibacy their whole life.
Again things that are all man made and against the natural order of God's creation.. so people in christianity are confused. Unlike in islam, we HAVE the original message period, whoever deviates like sects, we know they are deviant and we can point out how, however with christianity from the very basis there was debate what it even is to be a christian, who jesus is/was, who God is, etc... On the very core.
The fact that the roman church abolish God's law and replaced it with men made laws, is in part the tribulation in christiainty.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #755 on: January 14, 2013, 07:14:12 PM » |
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garebear
Time Out
Getbig V
Gender: 
Posts: 6525
Never question my instincts.
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« Reply #756 on: January 15, 2013, 03:16:41 AM » |
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Can you post a video where it says allah will send you to hell for smelling your own farts?
I'm trying to educate myself.
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Griffith
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« Reply #757 on: January 15, 2013, 04:41:31 AM » |
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Did you know at one point the 'masses' being held, the preacher would never face the people, he would face them their back. It was in recent history that these 'small' things were changed. All masses were in latin too. So people were just led like blind sheeple. Whatever they were told is what they would believe, unable to read the scriptures for themselves, unable to understand latin, etc...
Protestantism also led the way to abolish the impermissibility of clergy marrying. As you know catholic priests are not allowed to marry and are sworn to celibacy their whole life.
Again things that are all man made and against the natural order of God's creation.. so people in christianity are confused. Unlike in islam, we HAVE the original message period, whoever deviates like sects, we know they are deviant and we can point out how, however with christianity from the very basis there was debate what it even is to be a christian, who jesus is/was, who God is, etc... On the very core.
The fact that the roman church abolish God's law and replaced it with men made laws, is in part the tribulation in christiainty.
That's what everyone from every religion says. Do you not even see the irony here? Even Buddhists are the same, they say the same sort of thing and have all their own justifications,, 'proofs' etc of why they're right and the other cults are wrong. |
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bigbobs
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« Reply #758 on: January 15, 2013, 10:44:03 AM » |
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That's what everyone from every religion says. Do you not even see the irony here?
Untrue. Name one Christian scholar who claims that the current day Bible is constructed from original manuscripts noted during the time of Jesus. |
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #759 on: January 15, 2013, 10:59:44 AM » |
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Untrue. Name one Christian scholar who claims that the current day Bible is constructed from original manuscripts noted during the time of Jesus.
There were no manuscripts during the time Christ was on this earth as a man. The transmission of the gospel (before and after Christ's ascension) was done via oral tradition for many years before the first manuscripts were written (although the originals no longer exist....lost and destroyed). Memorization and oral communication was a tradition of the Jews and first Christians. The first Christians spent so many years in missionary service repeating the gospel over and over and over again it was seared into their brains LOL! Now, in early 2012 a 1st century manuscript of the gospel of Mark was found. I've been waiting for a year to hear the findings....supposed to be published early this year. Will be interesting having a 1st century manuscript written during the lives of eyewitnesses of Christ; in addition, a manuscript of Mark that shaped the synoptic gospels (Matthew and Luke). That's why the field of textual criticism is so important. I'm currently reading Daniel Wallace's book "Reinventing Jesus" concerning NT manuscripts and the field of textual criticism. It's a great refutation of those positions held by non textual critics (Jesus Seminar members) and liberal, textual critic Bart Ehrman that created such a stink with his extremist book "Misquoting Jesus". |
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Griffith
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« Reply #760 on: January 15, 2013, 11:30:26 AM » |
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There were no manuscripts during the time Christ was on this earth as a man. The transmission of the gospel (before and after Christ's ascension) was done via oral tradition for many years before the first manuscripts were written (although the originals no longer exist....lost and destroyed). Memorization and oral communication was a tradition of the Jews and first Christians. The first Christians spent so many years in missionary service repeating the gospel over and over and over again it was seared into their brains LOL! Now, in early 2012 a 1st century manuscript of the gospel of Mark was found. I've been waiting for a year to hear the findings....supposed to be published early this year. Will be interesting having a 1st century manuscript written during the lives of eyewitnesses of Christ; in addition, a manuscript of Mark that shaped the synoptic gospels (Matthew and Luke). That's why the field of textual criticism is so important. I'm currently reading Daniel Wallace's book "Reinventing Jesus" concerning NT manuscripts and the field of textual criticism. It's a great refutation of those positions held by non textual critics (Jesus Seminar members) and liberal, textual critic Bart Ehrman that created such a stink with his extremist book "Misquoting Jesus".
Same with Buddhism. They still even practice this, some monks are apparently able to memorize all their texts. |
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Griffith
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« Reply #761 on: January 15, 2013, 11:38:38 AM » |
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Untrue. Name one Christian scholar who claims that the current day Bible is constructed from original manuscripts noted during the time of Jesus.
Well Islam used some of those texts, so its even worse for them! Even more recycled and changed to fit in with their local culture. As mentioned before, the culture of the pagan nomadic tribes of Arabia were incorporated into their new religion as was the black rock they pray to. This rock was worshiped by all the pagan tribes. Islam is a fusion of local Arabic tribal culture with that of the Monotheistic books of Judaism and Christianity. Out of this combination, a new religion was formed. |
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #762 on: January 15, 2013, 12:17:36 PM » |
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A gift is not conditional on faith in something. If Jesus did die for our sins, why would we then have to believe that he did just in order for his death's purpose to be fulfilled?
I think I understand what you’re suggesting, but let me be clear on this. Jesus sacrifice on Calvary’s cross was fulfilled by him and him alone…we did nothing to help fulfill his purpose in anyway whatsoever. Christ died for all of us and paid the debt for all of our sins. All we do is make a choice to either accept or reject him. Let’s say, I present you a gift and say, “Hey bigbobs, from me to you, enjoy.” You’re under no obligation to me. At that point you’re free to do whatever you choose with the gift…accept it, reject it, ignore it, toss it...whatever you please. On the Big Bang Theory, Sheldon Cooper hates gifts because he says it creates a “binding social contract in which he’s forced to reciprocate in an equivalent manner”. The truth of the matter is that simply isn’t correct….gift giving should be unconditional on behalf of the giver and in Christ’s case it absolutely is. As I posted above in some concluding scripture, we are saved by grace through faith. Christ’s gift of salvation is a free gift to all and believers simply express acceptance of that gift through their faith. I suppose one could be hardcore and say, “Well, there is a condition on salvation because we have to make a choice!” Some folks don’t want Christ’s gift of salvation and ironically it’s those folks that would demand a choice…..”Man, I’m forced to choose, but I better have a choice in the matter!!” They want nothing to do with Christ and prefer to be permanently separated from him….these folks need the ability to choose to opt out so they’re given that ability (and some still don’t like it LOL). It’s our ability to choose to accept or reject that makes all the difference. Christ wants us to desire him like he desires us…he wants us to freely choose him like he chooses us. Relationships are a two way street and Christ did the hard part for us already, all we have to do is accept or reject him. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. |
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #763 on: January 15, 2013, 02:45:20 PM » |
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Well Islam used some of those texts, so its even worse for them!
Even more recycled and changed to fit in with their local culture.
As mentioned before, the culture of the pagan nomadic tribes of Arabia were incorporated into their new religion as was the black rock they pray to. This rock was worshiped by all the pagan tribes.
Islam is a fusion of local Arabic tribal culture with that of the Monotheistic books of Judaism and Christianity. Out of this combination, a new religion was formed.
Whenever its said that Islam used or recyled text it makes me laugh. As the writing in the qur'an is NOTHING like the bible. The bible and the quran are NOTHING alike... NOTHING. |
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Griffith
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« Reply #764 on: January 15, 2013, 02:50:49 PM » |
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Whenever its said that Islam used or recyled text it makes me laugh. As the writing in the qur'an is NOTHING like the bible. The bible and the quran are NOTHING alike... NOTHING.
So the same/similar stories from the Torah/Talmud and New Testament just happen to be by some strange coincidence in the Koran.... 600 years after the fact and after Mohamed had visited the regions where those books were from and heard those tales.... He then comes back, disappears in a cave for a long amount of time and just happens to oneday come out with a book with similar stories which also just happens to conveniently fit in with local culture and customs... |
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #765 on: January 15, 2013, 03:55:32 PM » |
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So your 'proof' that its 'plagarized' is that the same events are mentioned  Yet the bible and quran sound NOTHING alike in structure, eloquence, language, presentation, etc... Wow imagine that! One God, sending messengers to mankind, and the next messenger reccounting what happened or being told what happened? So I guess the jews stole from Abraham who stole from Noah and Adam? Do you even make sense? Islam reaffirms what was, this is fact. And quite clearly so it reaffirms both Jewish and Christian accounts even with jesus. The things Jews flock at Jesus the quran denounces and honors Jesus. What lies later roman christians invented, the qur'an denounces and sticks to the original. Christians are unaware of the realities of the accusations thrown at Jesus and Mary and live in a fantasy that it was all jolly happy with baby Jesus coming into this world and Mary getting a baby out of marriage for instance. Just one small fact. In which case the qur'an is closer to the Jewish representation (factual) but denouncing the lewd accusations, slander and their own self glorification saying they killed Jesus. Jews don't love Christians, but evangelical christians have this fantasy of worshipping Israel and Jews. Jews hate Jesus and hate Christians. No one in this world accepts Jesus besides Christians and Muslims. We accept Jesus as the messiah. It's just Christians that turned Jesus into a god. Jews rejected Jesus as the messiah. Messiah does not mean being God. |
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TrueBB93
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« Reply #766 on: January 16, 2013, 09:46:52 PM » |
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E-Kul
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« Reply #767 on: January 17, 2013, 06:20:29 AM » |
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V
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #768 on: January 17, 2013, 12:28:45 PM » |
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I enjoyed both sides of the debate, but approximately 1 hour and 14 minutes into the debate I simply shook my head and LOL'd....thought I'd share: |
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #769 on: January 17, 2013, 02:04:03 PM » |
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #770 on: January 17, 2013, 05:53:47 PM » |
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #771 on: January 17, 2013, 06:07:34 PM » |
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TrueBB93
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« Reply #772 on: January 17, 2013, 08:42:21 PM » |
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TrueBB93
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« Reply #773 on: January 18, 2013, 12:26:14 AM » |
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TrueBB93
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« Reply #774 on: January 18, 2013, 12:28:36 AM » |
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