how much volume for back

[cpluvcb]

hey guys
 I was wondering if i was undertraining my back. right now, im tring to work on the widness. so i start with chin ups then its bent rows and deads. all are four sets each. is 12 sets too little for back?? i was thinking about doing/ adding in T-bar rows (i.e. ronnie style)  what do you guys think??

I also wanted to know how many traps exerises do you guys do??

thankx

[Traps Hoolihan]

Back is such a large muscle group that anything under 20-25 sets is insufficient IMO. Maybe add a Reverse-grip pulldown. Also add a seated cable row,  varying grips between sets.
I try to do 8-12 sets for traps. DB Shrugs, BB Shrugs and the occasional Calf Raise shrug.

[Jr. Yates]

calf shurgs acutally work well.  But that many sets for traps? i do 4 sets max no more ever and that depends if my 1st set wasn't worthy of being called a "working set" but who knows you may have nice thick traps but as long as i concentrate and contract them i feel they are being worked.  as for what you said about back volume i agree with you.

[JPM]

If anyone believes that a larger muscle group needs many more set's ( 20+ as opposed to 4-9 set's max), than they would be mistaken. And if anyone believes that a muscle group must be hit by many different exercises and angles than they to would  be mistaken. I don't care what the winner of the 2005 title of Mr. Big Ball's say's in all the mag's or his $39.95 video's as to how he does secret workouts using 20 or 30 SS's per body part every workout, that is not the real world of weight training.

Check out some of the PL'ers and Olympic lifter's for unbelieveable extra thick, muscular backs, traps, shoulders, leg's, etc. Some BB'ers would give their right nut to have that muscle mass but they take the path of thinking that more (sets) is always better. And while your at it, check out some of the really huge BB'ers who toss around massive amounts of weight every workout. Most all those workouts are short and to the point and not the marathon 20+ set's that can cause more damage than good. If a trainee can not completly work a muscle group close to it's max, for future potentional growth, between 4 to 9 set's than his whole approach to training is misguided. Good Luck.

Side Bar: Sorry... but I don't answer personal post.

[triple_pickle]

i do 12-14 sets for middle/upper back.  something like:

chin-ups, 4 sets
bb rows, 4 sets
pulldowns, 3 sets
db rows, 2-3 sets

i do lower back separately:

deads, pyramid up so it takes some 6 sets
then i throw in 2-3 sets of partial deads

i think it was thierry pastel who did some 46 sets for back including 26 sets of chin-ups.  crazy and counterproductive, imo.  i also tried the dorian yates approach -- 1 working set per exercise, up to 7 exercises -- and it worked pretty well.

for traps, i do 3-4 sets, usually db or bb shrugs

[NoCalBbEr]

i like 16 total= sets
weighted chins up 4x as many as i can with the weight
bb rows 4x6-8
t-ros 4x6-8
deads 4x6-8

traps
bb shrugs 4x6-8
db shrugs or hummer shrugs 4x6-8

note: i might do more reps  if i have it in me.6-8 reps is just a basic rep range but i alot of time do up to ten reps.

for traps: if i fee good/pumped i'll do bd shrugs. there alot of work to  set up the set then to do the set. i go up to 165lbs and the like under all the rest of the dbs. so i have to up them on a bench to do them.

[Cavalier22]

14-18
 if i am still feeling the pump and more blood is gettin into the muscle, why stop

[Overload]

i haven't done more than 12 sets for back in almost 5 years and it is my strongest group. warm up well and hit it hard, heavy and with some intensity.

deads, BB rows, Chins, close grip chins, one arm DB row, cable/machine low rows...etc

pick 4 movements and do 2-3 sets at the most...i have gotten some of my best results with low volume.


 

[Bear03]

i haven't done more than 12 sets for back in almost 5 years and it is my strongest group. warm up well and hit it hard, heavy and with some intensity.

deads, BB rows, Chins, close grip chins, one arm DB row, cable/machine low rows...etc

pick 4 movements and do 2-3 sets at the most...i have gotten some of my best results with low volume.

Lucky man.....I did 20 sets last week, 5 each of Wide Grip Chins, CG chins, BO BB rows, and cable rows.....my lats have never been so sore.

[XS]

Actual Answer: As much as you can recover from.
 
What are your goals?  How often do you actually want to train?


XS

[Mr Anabolic]

hey guys
 I was wondering if i was undertraining my back. right now, im tring to work on the widness. so i start with chin ups then its bent rows and deads. all are four sets each. is 12 sets too little for back?? i was thinking about doing/ adding in T-bar rows (i.e. ronnie style)  what do you guys think??

If you are pouring your heart and soul into those 12 sets and feeling/squeezing each rep... that should be plenty.

[bmacsys]

Back is such a large muscle group that anything under 20-25 sets is insufficient IMO. Maybe add a Reverse-grip pulldown. Also add a seated cable row,  varying grips between sets.
I try to do 8-12 sets for traps. DB Shrugs, BB Shrugs and the occasional Calf Raise shrug.

That sounds like a lot of wasted energy to me. 8 to 12 sets for just traps?

[davie]

Iv tinkered with sets but at teh mo am working at about 14 (might come down soon-as the more i train the better my mind muscle connection get as i concentrating on it, and am upping intesntity always).

That includes:
Deads 2x7 after coupl warm up sets (do deads every2 weeks,weighted hypers when im not doing deads)
BB rows overhand wid 3x8
bb rows under grip narrow 3x8
cable one arm rows 3x8
pulldown shoulder width grip to the front 3x8

Though today i changed and put t-bar in instead of 1st bb row exercise 7 db row instead on cable row.

davie

[pumpster]

Defintely do *not* need any more than 10-12 sets on back if you're making them count, meaning going to failure on all sets and adding some partials or cheats at the end of some of the sets.

Try doing 3 sets of each exercise if you're doing 4 back exercises. After a while try instead taking any 2 exercises and doing 5-6 sets each.