Triple Crown... Cabrera

[snx]

I'd also give it to Cabrera because the guy put up the numbers in 161 games. Trout played in 139 games I believe. Some may say that putting up huge numbers in less game is more impressive but those people are wrong. Baseball is a fcking grind. And having over 20 days resting instead of in the mix is huge.

He's a rookie and got called up late. That's why he didn't play the whole season. Imagine if he'd been called to the show on opening day...potential 40/40 season, perhaps?

[UPINTHEMGUTS]

No argument here.  I just think Trout deserves the MVP over him.

Nah...I disagree on the basis that Cabrera's team is in the postseason, and Trout's team isn't. Like the other guy said on the other post...Cabrera played in almost every game this season and put up those stats...just mindboggling.

[Grape Ape]

Nah...I disagree on the basis that Cabrera's team is in the postseason, and Trout's team isn't. Like the other guy said on the other post...Cabrera played in almost every game this season and put up those stats...just mindboggling.

Yeah, but Trout's team has a better record.  Cabrerra's got better teammates in a worse division.

Trout's season is one of the best ever.

[snx]

Here's one interesting theory I just thought of, as to why the writers will bypass Trout in favor of Cabrera.

I mean, besides the whole "post-season" drama that's over-rated (Detroit plays in a weak division relative to the Angels), and the nostalgia of Triple Crown (however irrelevant those stats might be)...

They have to give Trout the Rookie of the Year award, right? I can't think of a better rookie this year.

So, if he gets that hardware, isn't it like a consolation prize for not winning the MVP?

After all, the only other guys to win ROY and MVP are Ichiro, and Freddy Lynn. So it really doesn't happen that often, even though some rookies have put up fantastic seasons (like McGwire in 87, for example).

[Grape Ape]

Here's one interesting theory I just thought of, as to why the writers will bypass Trout in favor of Cabrera.

I mean, besides the whole "post-season" drama that's over-rated (Detroit plays in a weak division relative to the Angels), and the nostalgia of Triple Crown (however irrelevant those stats might be)...

They have to give Trout the Rookie of the Year award, right? I can't think of a better rookie this year.

So, if he gets that hardware, isn't it like a consolation prize for not winning the MVP?

After all, the only other guys to win ROY and MVP are Ichiro, and Freddy Lynn. So it really doesn't happen that often, even though some rookies have put up fantastic seasons (like McGwire in 87, for example).

I'm sure some of those dipshits will look at it through this lens, but at the end of the day, it shouldn't be a reason for a more deserving candidate to not get an award.

[snx]

I'm sure some of those dipshits will look at it through this lens, but at the end of the day, it shouldn't be a reason for a more deserving candidate to not get an award.

I agree.

Look at his WAR. I know we talked earlier, but it's off-the-charts.

He has achieved the highest single season WAR of any player in the last 25 years, if you don't count Barry Bonds and that one season Cal Ripken had in 1991 (a single season that doesn't get enough love, if you ask me).

[residue]

how many sandows does he have?

[funk51]

Yes the JUICE is good in this one, i congratulate him on keeping a Clean Piss through out the year

Regardless its a great list to be on

Triple Crown winners



Year Lg    Player    Team/(BA, HR, RBI)
2012 AL    Miguel Cabrera    DET .330, 44 HR, 139 RBI
1967 AL    Carl Yastrzemski    BOS .326, 44 HR, 121 RBI
1966 AL    Frank Robinson    BAL .316, 49 HR, 122 RBI
1956 AL    Mickey Mantle    NYY .353, 52 HR, 130 RBI
1947 AL    Ted Williams    BOS .343, 32 HR, 114 RBI
1942 AL    Ted Williams    BOS .356, 36 HR, 137 RBI
1937 NL    Joe Medwick    STL .374, 31 HR, 154 RBI
1934 AL    Lou Gehrig    NYY .363, 49 HR, 165 RBI
1933 AL    Jimmie Foxx    PHA .356, 48 HR, 163 RBI
1933 NL    Chuck Klein    PHI .368, 28 HR, 120 RBI
1925 NL    Rogers Hornsby    STL .403, 39 HR, 143 RBI
1922 NL    Rogers Hornsby    STL .401, 42 HR, 152 RBI
1909 AL    Ty Cobb    DET .377, 9 HR, 107 RBI
1901 AL    Nap Lajoie    PHA .426, 14 HR, 125 RBI
1887 AA    Tip O'Neill    STL .435, 14 HR, 123 RBI
1878 NL    Paul Hines    PRO .358, 4 HR, 50 RBI

interesting fact ted williams came in second in the mvp voting his two triple crown years.

[flipper5470]

Ben Zobrist lead the league in WAR in 2011...was Ben Zobrist the MVP?   Did anyone think Zobrist was the MVP?   Hell, the sabremetrics crowd can't even agree on a standardized defiition of the stat....I do not think it's a valid criteria for judging MVP. 

[snx]

Ben Zobrist lead the league in WAR in 2011...was Ben Zobrist the MVP?   Did anyone think Zobrist was the MVP?   Hell, the sabremetrics crowd can't even agree on a standardized defiition of the stat....I do not think it's a valid criteria for judging MVP. 

You don't think it should play even a part in determining who was best?

[POB]

It is so hard to bat for both average AND power on the major league level. There's a reason it's been over 45 years since the last triple crown winner. Hats off to Cabrera. Awesome accomplishment for one hell of a ball player.

This

[flipper5470]

You don't think it should play even a part in determining who was best?

I didn't say that...I'm skeptical of any number that doesn't have a agreed upon definition.  I will admit that I'm ignorant of how much fielding stats like range factors come into play...I think those numbers are suspect because they can be influenced by the people you play alongside (Trout can cheat more in CF because he's next to Tori Hunter so his range looks larger).   I think over the course of a few years, if you use a standardized version and apply it, it's a worthwhile number in considering the relative value of a set of players.  To give the top award to a guy who played 139 games using WAR as a cornerstone of the case?  No...I can't buy that.

I would ask the WAR crowd if Justin Verlander should be the Cy Young winner this year.... I think it should go to Price, but Verlander does have a higher WAR...

[arce1988]

  Melky said that he did.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

No argument here.  I just think Trout deserves the MVP over him.

One could argue that a new award needs to be brought forth. How often would a triple crown winner not get the MvP. Trout makes a case that maybe a new award needs to be put in place. If Trout wins the MVP, MC surely needs to win something.

[The Ugly]

Trout had a great year for sure, Rookie of the Year, but Cabrera deserves the MVP.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

Trout had a great year for sure, Rookie of the Year, but Cabrera deserves the MVP.

Cabrera played a full year. MVP

[AbrahamG]

  For the record, I feel that he HAS used PED.

Who cares Asshole.  Your just hating cuz he's got a huge cock.

[Grape Ape]

Trout had a great year for sure, Rookie of the Year, but Cabrera deserves the MVP.

I think I've given plenty of reasons why he doesn't.   Can you provide some exammples as to why?

[Grape Ape]

Ben Zobrist lead the league in WAR in 2011...was Ben Zobrist the MVP?   Did anyone think Zobrist was the MVP?   Hell, the sabremetrics crowd can't even agree on a standardized defiition of the stat....I do not think it's a valid criteria for judging MVP.  

This has been a counter that many have provided.  For some reason they skip all the legitimate explanations and just try to make this out to be a SABR vs non SABR argument.   I pointed out the deficiencies of WAR, but nobody here, especially myself, said Trout should win because of WAR.

But, It's also been demonstrated that WAR is tremendously valuable, and the best comprehensive stat for determining overall player value. There is no perfect stat, but that doesn't mean that we should use the worst ones that we can find just because they measure easily counted events.

Trout leads in almost every advanced metric and a bunch of less advanced, valuable statistics.   He also plays incredible defense while Cabrerra was a butcher in the field.   In other words, a lot of the VALUE Cabrerra brings to his team at the plate,  he gives right back in the field.  Trout also lead the league in SB and had over a 90% success rate.

Yes, Cabrerra had a great year and did something rare.    Trout just had a better one.


Polanski gets it right:

http://joeposnanski.blogspot.hk/2012/10/the-triple-trout.html

[snx]

Whether or not Miggy wins the MVP this year, he only needs another 7 years at this level of output and he's a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame, which is far more important than any one particular MVP award.

He just needs 500HR's, 1700 RBIs and a .300BA and the writers will vote him in. As irrelevant as the latter two stats are. What's more, they'll give it to him because 3B is notoriously under-represented in the HOF. The writers would much more easily vote in a 3B'man than another 1B'man.

[arce1988]

 


  Hate? I made this thread.