Author Topic: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread  (Read 24598 times)

Primemuscle

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #225 on: October 17, 2012, 12:37:07 AM »
Yes, same case with my parents and grand parents.  It's absolutely insane.

My generation didn't do anything wrong though, why must we support a system that's going to fuck us over in the end?  ??




I understand how you feel. If I were your age, I would very likely feel the same way. What folks your age could do is work to fix the system. Stop the feds from "raping" your funds to pay for other things. Raise the eligibility age for Social Security to something more relevant to people's ability to work. Even changing it from 66 to 67 would make a huge difference in the health of the program. Don't go back to a health system whereas the insurance companies, hospitals and providers fuel the runaway costs and charges.

Here's an example: I recently had surgery, which the hospital billed at $30,000. Because I have a Medicare Avantage insurance plan, for which I pay an additional premium on top of what I already pay in Medicare premiums, the insurance company paid and the hospital accepted $10,000.

Did you know that people on Medicare paid insurance premiums every month and those who want a better plan pay Medicare plus pay premiums for the additional coverage? Bet not. My and my wife's total premiums are a few pennys less than $500 a month. People who just have regular Medicare pay $100 a month plus what ever they pay for part "D" prescription drug coverage which depends on the insurance provider they go with.

BTW, I was in the hospital for two days. Not bad earnings, 4 hours in surgery and barely two days in the hospital and they wanted $30,000.

Had I been uninsured, that is what I would have paid. Had I been indigent and unisured that is what the hospital would have written and charged off to other paying patients....just as they do with all those folks one sees with a bruized lip or a slight cough in the emergency rooms.

Primemuscle

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #226 on: October 17, 2012, 12:39:58 AM »
Yes, because this board is all about facts and relevance.

It's politics... politics are all about "facts" huh?

::)



One can only hope that us regular folk can talk facts and not act like a bunch of politicans.  ::)

Benny B

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #227 on: October 17, 2012, 04:06:18 AM »
Even this pompous FAUX NEWS jackass realizes the truth.  ;) The only way you score anything is with "points."  ::)

Charles Krauthammer: ‘Obama wins on points’
Posted By Jeff Poor

On Fox News Channel’s wrap-up of Tuesday night’s presidential debate, Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer said President Barack Obama had won the contest, which he compared to a prize fight between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier.

“I think on points, if you were scoring it on points, Obama wins on points,” Krauthammer said. “He made a lot of counter-punches. He made a lot of accusations. He managed to get under Romney’s skin a little bit by referring to his wealth. He made $20 million a year trying to make a point about taxes, but it’s a way to say, ‘you’re a rich guy.’ How will you understand the ordinary guy? I thought there is a point where Romney did really well. I think all of us agree that was on the issue on the failure of this administration. When Romney went large, it he did well. When he went small, which he did here and there, I think Obama got the better of him.”
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Benny B

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #228 on: October 17, 2012, 04:15:32 AM »
Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:42 PM PDT
The debate in pictures

The real President Barack Obama showed up. So did the real, dickish, Mitt Romney. It wasn't even close. And how can we be sure? Because the side that whines about the moderator is the side that lost the debate. And yeah, tonight, that was the Republicans.






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Benny B

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #229 on: October 17, 2012, 04:24:02 AM »
Tue Oct 16, 2012
Obama likes people, people like Obama


President Barack Obama hangs out with audience members after the second presidential debate, 10/16/2012


After the debate, audience members mobbed President Barack Obama while Mitt Romney was surrounded by just his family. He didn't last long, out of the hall as fast as he could. He has a hard time being around carbon-based life forms, you know?

On the other hand, Obama stuck around 10-15 minutes signing autographs and taking pictures. We saw our real president tonight, and we also saw the real dick Romney. The contrast couldn't be clearer.
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Benny B

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #230 on: October 17, 2012, 04:48:19 AM »
Mitt Romney's Condescending Views Toward Women

In the second Presidential debate, President Obama showed that he's committed to progress for women while Mitt Romney exposed that he's too extreme for women.

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Benny B

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #231 on: October 17, 2012, 04:51:12 AM »
President Obama: Giving Middle Class Families Relief
Excerpt from the 2012 Presidential Town Hall Debate in Hempstead, New York - President Obama: Giving Middle Class Families Relief

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MCWAY

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #232 on: October 17, 2012, 06:13:41 AM »
Even this pompous FAUX NEWS jackass realizes the truth.  ;) The only way you score anything is with "points."  ::)

Charles Krauthammer: ‘Obama wins on points’
Posted By Jeff Poor

On Fox News Channel’s wrap-up of Tuesday night’s presidential debate, Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer said President Barack Obama had won the contest, which he compared to a prize fight between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier.

“I think on points, if you were scoring it on points, Obama wins on points,” Krauthammer said. “He made a lot of counter-punches. He made a lot of accusations. He managed to get under Romney’s skin a little bit by referring to his wealth. He made $20 million a year trying to make a point about taxes, but it’s a way to say, ‘you’re a rich guy.’ How will you understand the ordinary guy? I thought there is a point where Romney did really well. I think all of us agree that was on the issue on the failure of this administration. When Romney went large, it he did well. When he went small, which he did here and there, I think Obama got the better of him.”

Romney hammered Obama ON HIS record, which is how Obama will be judged in this debate.




Per a CBS poll. 63% of voters thought it was a tie (33%) or Romney won (30%). In an CNN poll, the nod was given to Obama....HOWEVER, when the poll was broken down into its five topics, Romney won on FOUR of them, including the dominant issue of this election: THE ECONOMY:


Despite Obama’s slight edge overall, Romney was seen as better able to handle most issues. The trend was most notable in the CNN poll: he had an 18-point edge among registered voters on the economy (58 percent Romney, 40 percent Obama), a 3-point edge on health care (49 percent Romney, 46 percent Obama), a 7-point edge on taxes (51 percent Romney, 44 percent Obama), and, largest of all, a 23 percent edge on the deficit (59 percent Romney, 36 percent Obama). Obama’s only lead was on foreign policy, where a slim margin of 2 percent of registered voters who watched the debate said he would handle the issue better (49 percent Obama, 47 percent Romney).


http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/obama-ekes-out-a-win-in-post-debate-polls-20121017


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/16/luntz_focus_group_of_mostly_former_obama_voters_switch_to_romney.html


As predicted, Obama simply showed with a pulse this time, screamed his usual talking points, put no vision for a second term on the table and clammed up, when Romney bashed him with his record.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #233 on: October 17, 2012, 06:15:01 AM »

garebear

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #234 on: October 17, 2012, 06:49:33 AM »
Haha!
G

chaos

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #235 on: October 17, 2012, 08:39:10 AM »
*yawn*
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Bad Boy Dazza

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #236 on: October 17, 2012, 08:51:59 AM »
Obama really know how to say those big popular but intellectually barren catchphrases.  But of course we should never trust people who spout popular rhetoric endlessly.

Coach is Back!

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #237 on: October 17, 2012, 08:56:40 AM »
Did anyone else bother to bring up that the fat lib mod asked just as many questions as the audience, interrupted Romney more than 28 times and gave Obama 9% more speaking time than Romney....and still, this the best that terrorist sympathizer could do. And to top it off,tthe momod admitted that Romney was correct when he called out Obama.

Hulkotron

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #238 on: October 17, 2012, 09:16:41 AM »
The one where Romney hit Obama over the head with his record and Obama went silent. Even the polls that said Obama won the debate gave Romney the BIG WIN on the economy.

Heck, CNN broke it down into 5 categories; Romney won on four of them, including and especially the economy. Healthcare, the deficit, and taxes were the other three. Obama got the nod on foreign policy.

That basically means Obama "won" simply by spewing the left-winged talking points with an attitude. He couldn't defend his lousy record and the fact the moderator basically helped him out on this one makes him look even weaker.

You keep bringing this up like it's remarkable.  The challenger has an inherent advantage over an incumbent president in debates because he has four years worth of a very public record to tee off on.  For example I could tell you numerous things Obama hasn't gotten done or hasn't done well (and some things he has done well) in the last four years, but I couldn't tell you anything Romney's done, other than run for president.  Literally every presidential debate in history with an incumbent has been like that.

The categories are interesting data but are meaningless when it comes to winning the election.  You don't issue an array of votes for different people in different categories on Nov. 6, you vote for one man or the other, and on that vote Obama won this debate in most polls that I've seen (by a small margin).

I'm as independent as they come (have voted R once and D once in the three elections in my adult life) and probably won't vote because I don't like either of these candidates that much, before you try to label me as some sort of Obama apologist.

Hulkotron

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #239 on: October 17, 2012, 09:18:50 AM »
Did anyone else bother to bring up that the fat lib mod asked just as many questions as the audience, interrupted Romney more than 28 times and gave Obama 9% more speaking time than Romney....and still, this the best that terrorist sympathizer could do. And to top it off,tthe momod admitted that Romney was correct when he called out Obama.

Yes, I thought this was easily Obama's best debate performance ever, but the moderator seemed very, very strongly in his corner.

G_Thang

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #240 on: October 17, 2012, 09:39:49 AM »
romney is terrible, but obama is a timeproven huge liar and deserves to get kicked out of office.

or is it the stupid ppl who believe the lies that perhaps deserve the govt they have?

or maybe there isnt really a choice?

Obama isn't any worst than Monkey Boy, who proceeded him.  Mathematically, Romney can't accomplish any of the bullshit spilling out of his mouth in the next 4 years, nor will he.  He'll get the industrial machine going by invading Iran.  There is your economic ignition switch. 

Vote Obama and see, if the second coming of Clinton rises from lying hallways of the Senate or the House. 

The party system is the USA must be the biggest joke in the world.  And people debate endlessly over this shit, when both guys are dropping nuclear lies. 

Hulkotron

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #241 on: October 17, 2012, 09:42:47 AM »
Pretty much everyone who's going to vote has decided already.  They are just fighting over a very small slice of the pie of mostly low-information (read: idiotic) voters now.

MCWAY

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #242 on: October 17, 2012, 09:46:45 AM »
You keep bringing this up like it's remarkable.  The challenger has an inherent advantage over an incumbent president in debates because he has four years worth of a very public record to tee off on.  For example I could tell you numerous things Obama hasn't gotten done or hasn't done well (and some things he has done well) in the last four years, but I couldn't tell you anything Romney's done, other than run for president.  Literally every presidential debate in history with an incumbent has been like that.

The categories are interesting data but are meaningless when it comes to winning the election.  You don't issue an array of votes for different people in different categories on Nov. 6, you vote for one man or the other, and on that vote Obama won this debate in most polls that I've seen (by a small margin).

I'm as independent as they come (have voted R once and D once in the three elections in my adult life) and probably won't vote because I don't like either of these candidates that much, before you try to label me as some sort of Obama apologist.

The challenger only has that advantage if the incumbent has a sorry record. Again, every incumbent has to deal with this.

Of the polls I've seen, declaring Obama the winner, those same polls claim ROMNEY won on the most important issue of this election: THE ECONOMY.

As posted earlier, on the economy, the deficit, taxes, and immigration, in a CNN poll, Romney won. Obama got the nod on foreign policy.

Obama won for one reason: He actually had a pulse and spewed his tired talking points with an attitude, unlike the previous debate.

How else do you explain the CBS poll where 63% said it was either a draw (33%) or Romney won (30%)?

Hulkotron

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #243 on: October 17, 2012, 09:49:29 AM »
The challenger only has that advantage if the incumbent has a sorry record. Again, every incumbent has to deal with this.

Of the polls I've seen, declaring Obama the winner, those same polls claim ROMNEY won on the most important issue of this election: THE ECONOMY.

As posted earlier, on the economy, the deficit, taxes, and immigration, in a CNN poll, Romney won. Obama got the nod on foreign policy.

Obama won for one reason: He actually had a pulse and spewed his tired talking points with an attitude, unlike the previous debate.

How else do you explain the CBS poll where 63% said it was either a draw (33%) or Romney won (30%)?

You are missing the point entirely.  I bolded the part that matters, hope this helps.

dr.chimps

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #244 on: October 17, 2012, 09:53:10 AM »

bike nut

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #245 on: October 17, 2012, 09:54:16 AM »
They are just fighting over a very small slice of the pie of mostly low-information (read: idiotic) voters now.

You mean Chris Mathews and Candy Crowley?

I wonder who played Mitt Romney during Candy Crowley's debate prep?

 ::)

Roger Bacon

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #246 on: October 17, 2012, 09:55:20 AM »
I understand how you feel. If I were your age, I would very likely feel the same way. What folks your age could do is work to fix the system. Stop the feds from "raping" your funds to pay for other things. Raise the eligibility age for Social Security to something more relevant to people's ability to work. Even changing it from 66 to 67 would make a huge difference in the health of the program. Don't go back to a health system whereas the insurance companies, hospitals and providers fuel the runaway costs and charges.

Here's an example: I recently had surgery, which the hospital billed at $30,000. Because I have a Medicare Avantage insurance plan, for which I pay an additional premium on top of what I already pay in Medicare premiums, the insurance company paid and the hospital accepted $10,000.

Did you know that people on Medicare paid insurance premiums every month and those who want a better plan pay Medicare plus pay premiums for the additional coverage? Bet not. My and my wife's total premiums are a few pennys less than $500 a month. People who just have regular Medicare pay $100 a month plus what ever they pay for part "D" prescription drug coverage which depends on the insurance provider they go with.

BTW, I was in the hospital for two days. Not bad earnings, 4 hours in surgery and barely two days in the hospital and they wanted $30,000.

Had I been uninsured, that is what I would have paid. Had I been indigent and unisured that is what the hospital would have written and charged off to other paying patients....just as they do with all those folks one sees with a bruized lip or a slight cough in the emergency rooms.

Thank you, I appreciate the time you put into this post.

I'm a libertarian (I can't help it  :-[),  I do think long and hard before I cast a vote for anyone.  Especially in local and state politics.

240 is Back

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #247 on: October 17, 2012, 09:56:50 AM »
Top repubs + CNN, CBS, and other polls seem to agree

Krauthamer, George Will, Cavuto, Brooks: Obama won debate

Hulkotron

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #248 on: October 17, 2012, 09:59:27 AM »
What does it mean when a man is hoisted with his own petard ???

MCWAY

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Re: Official G & O Debate Rematch Thread
« Reply #249 on: October 17, 2012, 10:05:52 AM »
Top repubs + CNN, CBS, and other polls seem to agree

Krauthamer, George Will, Cavuto, Brooks: Obama won debate

So are the reviews on what Romney won:

You now, as far as "Debate Winner" it's pretty close with those registered voters. CBS gives it to Obama, among registered voters 37-30. CNN's registered voters gives it to Obama 46-39.

But on actual issues -- the ones that will determine this election -- Romney destroyed him.

CNN's focus group claimed they thought Obama "won." They had it something like 14 for Obama, 15 draw, 6 Romney.

But even that group said this-- on the question of "Who offers a better vision for the future?," Romney edged Obama 18-17.

Now that's very slim. I wouldn't read too much into that.

But consider: More people think Romney presents a better vision for the future -- the quickest possible shorthand for "who should be President?" -- and yet he didn't "win" the debate?

You always have to question what the criteria people are employing when you ask them who "won." I think people are rating the performance. And narrowly saying, on performance, it was a close thing, but edge to Obama.

But ask about who actually reached them on the most important issues, and it's Romney, all the way.

So they seem to be distinguishing between performance and substance.

Romney wins the substance, pretty clearly.

I'll take it. And give Obama his charity performance points.


More: Foreign policy, Obama edges 49-47.

But this is amazing: Did Obama offer a clear vision for solving the country's problems?

38% Yes

61% No

61% No. Wow.

How about that asked about Romney?

49% Yes

50% No

A Specatator Culture: Americans have gotten pretty sophisticated about judging performance, especially after 10 years of American Idol.

We shouldn't assume that when people answer the question "Who won the debate?" they confuse that question with "Who did you find more persuasive?"

They might actually be offering a sophisticated analysis: "I think this guy won on debate performance points."

But then ask them "Who actually persuaded you?," and they might answer a completely different way.

It certainly appears that's what happened here tonight


http://ace.mu.nu/archives/333917.php

So, how do you lose in four of the five topics, that comprise the debate, have the voters polls say (moreso than your opponent) you don't have a clear vision for solving the country's problem, yet win the debate?

Answer: You simply scream your talking points with some zest, unlike the first debate. This appears to be a mercy win at best, the equivalent of which would be a football team in Week 17, beating another squad which started pulling its starters after clinching home-field advantage.