I never claimed pro bodybuilders were, in general, smart. In fact one may argue that to make a career of taking copious amount of health-compromising drugs for years on end, one is probably the opposite of "smart." There is, however, one thing that pro bodybuilders do know how to do quite well: take drugs. I have yet to meet a pro bodybuilder who does not know how to draw up 10iu's of insulin...many do it before every single meal.
If you are beginning to suggest that bodybuilders in past decades took moderate amounts of drugs, you are extremely confused. If you want to refer to 90s bodybuilding, I can tell you that a major "pro maker" guru out of new jersey's average contest prep protocol for a good friend of mine when he was doing jr nationals involved 2 amps of parabolan every day and 3 amps of winstrol suspension every day.
My initial post was a basic framework that the average bodybuilder can use to find success and mid level shows without much stress or paying the typical Gold's gym masters competitor/con man for "advice."
Furthermore, this "Agent69" clown is not a pro bodybuilder. He has never even touched an insulin needle.
Of course they used a lot. Some might even say the steroid intake was higher then, and today it's more peptides. But things like Parabolan weren't always available in unlimited amounts everywhere around the globe, at all times. Even today a pro, just like any amateur, will not be able to get anything he wishes at the snap of his fingers. What I'm saying is, is that 2 amps of Para a day simply wasn't a prerequisite to turn pro. I know of one pro, today, whose pro guru suggested 300mg tren per week for prep. There was a lot of other shit in the stack but the tren dose wasn't crazy.
You are a dealer and UGL operator, right? There was this other dealer on here who also spoke of pro stacks, before he shot himself and his girlfriend. Dave Jacobs. This guy wasn't posting anonymously... though I wonder if this increases or decreases his credibility.
But look at his insulin comments and contrast to yours.
Also I can not say anything against what GH15 is saying based upon his personal experiences and who he works with or knows. There are obviously a lot of pros out there and people cant know and work with all of them. There may very well be pros (and non pros) out there that are using up to the 10g mark weekly, but I think that most of that is not being processed or utilized by the body. "more is not always better". Your body can only process and handle so much of anything before the remainder becomes a waste product. I am sure that there are people out there who will do almost anything and use anything to try and achieve results and get themselves to the higher levels. However I can tell you that most of the "top" pros I know do not use such high and excessive doses.
Every pro I personally know uses slin. The amounts vary largely, but I have never heard of anyone using 60iu or even close on a daily basis. Even 60iu over a weekly basis is horrific on your pancreas and will not only put you at risk of forcing yourself to become diabetic, but it will also cause an enormous enlargement of the intestines and give you what people mistake as "gh gut" Most of the large stomachs you see on stage are not from GH usage but rather slin abuse.
Most people I know who have used slin very effectively and without negative side effects range from 5 - 10iu daily with a ratio of 15:1 complex carbs for each iu of slin. Vitargo and similar types of carbs are preferred over simple sugars. I can not imagine the effects on the body of using extreme high dosages of slin. When considering the carb intake needed that would be a minimum of 600g of carbs but more like 900g of carbs to ensure you would not go into diabetic shock and die. Imagine doing that while dieting. Talk about fighting a losing battle. The bloat and fatigue effect would be incredible. I can honestly say I have never personally worked with any professional who took more than 12iu during a day. Most people use it only 3 to 4 days a week, and on training days such as chest, legs and back. If you look at the spike that insulin causes and the way it continues to spike and how long it stays active in the body - I feel anyone using super high dosages of slin is riding the razors edge.
However, the steroid doses weren't much different from yours.
If you want to take up and total up all mgs of gear then yes there are many who do up to close to and over 5g of gear on a weekly basis.
For example. I know someone who did the following for the Olympia last year:
Test - 2.5g weekly (long acting at start then 5 weeks out switching to prop and phenyl prop)
EQ - 600mg Weekly
Durabolin - 700 mg Weekly (last 5 weeks pre contest)
Winstrol - 350mg weekly (last 5 weeks pre contest)
Masteron - 350mg Weekly (last 5 weeks pre contest)
Proviron - 700mg Weekly (100mg daily)
Halotestin - 210mg Weekly (30mg daily) (Last 5 weeks pre contest)
Nolvadex - 210mg Weekly (30mg Daily)
Anavar - 420mg weekly (60mg daily)
10iu HgH daily
25mcg IGF1 - Daily
So that in itself gives you 6040mg or 6.04 grams per week.
I think that is on the very high end and for a big show. A normal "off season" cycle would not have near that much stuff in it.
What do you make of this insulin discrepancy? And if I'm seeing right, no tren!
The you have Milos Sarcev who relies on 40-60iu of insulin a day. Look at the tren dose. Now I know many of his clients took more, but I also know some who got this type of dosage advice and followed it.
I mentioned somewhere here on getbig what the true IFBB Olympia competitor cycle looks like - and most of the people attacked not just me, my parents, grandparents...and my ancestors but my whole Religion, Nationality...and...OK.. .I am running out of ideas...
Anyway, what I said than (hopefully someone could find it?) and I will say now:
Smart pros use dramatically LESS than what most of the people believe...
Some of the guys I prepare actually complained on amounts I have given here on board - as WAY TOO MUCH...and I do know few guys who hardly touch those amounts...
But, if you want to accomplish THE BEST EFFECT: Highest anabolism, lowest catabolism, appropriate androgenic activity and possible fat loss while trying to maintain (or gain?) muscle size and considering correct usage and certainly NOT abusing any drugs...keeping eye on possible side effects vs benefits...than my 12 week Olympia cycle would be:
Sustanon 250 - (500-750 mg/week)
Deca (500 mg/week)
Trenbolon (200 mg/week)
Arimidex - 1mg /day
Test Prop 50-100 mg/day alternate with Test Heptylate 50-100 mg day (500-700 mg/week)
Trenbolon Acetate (200 mg/week)
Primobolan (500 mg/week)
Anadrol (3 x 25 mg/day)
Winstrol tabs (3 x 15 mg/day)
Arimidex - 1 mg /day alternate with 2.5 mg Femara every other day
Test prop 100 mg/day alternate with 50-100 mg Test Suspension /day - every other day (500-700 mg /week)
Masterone 100 mg every other day - stop 10 days out
Winstrol injectable 50 mg /day (week 9) 100 mg/day (week 10) and 150 mg/day (week 11) - stop 5 days out
Oxandrolone (3 x 10-20 mg/day)
Halotestin (3 x 10 mg/day) / Or Andriol (40 mg Test Undecanoate x 3 /day) - either or?
Arimidex 2 mg (possible 3?) /day
With this cycle possible additions:
Clenbuterol, T3 (cytomel) T4 (Synthroid) GH, insulin, Cytadren....IF needed or available...but you asked for steroids - anyway...
Got to go now...
My opinion is that you need heavy everything to look like Kai Greene or Coleman and so on. But then you have 212 guys for example who can look pretty damn good on lower doses, good pharma growth goes a long way in allowing you to do lower anabolic doses, and insulin of course can add a lot to that. A pro is not a pro... there are different types of pro bodybuilders.