I do see your point, but like I said, there has to be some sort of compromise on some things. Just like I said in an earlier thread, that Ford closed it's Norfolk Assembly Plant because the guys would not take less money. Ford said, fuck you, and moved it's operations elsewhere. they told people they could relocate, and paid people a severance, but they were still out of work. All because they would not budge. Assembly line workers came in at $17.89 and hour. Ford wanted them to take a paycut because times got tight. Now everybody loses. I have 8 employees (7 that actually work, lol) and I believe that I pay them fair. Three are on salary, and the rest are hourly. I try to pay them what they are worth, and give them bonuses based on performance, because I can't always afford to give them raises, because I'd have to take them away in tight times. I keep enough to pay these guys for 6 weeks, even if I had no work. I will pay them for the Thanksgiving week, and also Christmas vacation. they get one week paid sick time and one week paid vacation. But, if they were part of some union, I would be broke trying to acquiesce to their demands. I am the one who has to make sure that these guys have work on the books for weeks at a time. I am the one who pays out, literally, hundreds of thousand of dollars in materials and equipment yearly. they get to go home at night and only worry about their problems. I go home and have to worry about everybodies problems. Like I said, that's why I don't do work in union states. I have to go tit for tat with equipment operators, one from the union and one from me. I would have to pay fringe that only portions go to the employee. Try to do a project up north and not hire union guys, then try and get concrete. If you aren't on a Federal project, good luck.