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Author Topic: Why raise taxes..seriously..that's so gay  (Read 738 times)
War-Horse
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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2012, 05:59:39 PM »

Are you gonna tell me you can cut spending without the loss of jobs?


Tonys bulb aint to bright. He says he's in finance but cant understand basic cost/loss equations.

And yes theres waste in gov't that we can use for better purposes.  How about 700 billion saved by waste and fraud in medicare...(DOuble billing, inefficiant procedures etc)  Support obama care...its all in there.

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tonymctones
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« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2012, 07:39:05 PM »

Are you gonna tell me you can cut spending without the loss of jobs?
hahahah hell yes you dip shit, you really think the govt has no waste in it?

you really think that its run as efficiently as possible and that any cuts will result in losses of jobs?

please tell me youre not that stupid....
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Straw Man
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« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2012, 07:43:33 PM »

do you agree that you have to raise revenue a greater % than if you cut operating expenses to have the same effect on the bottom line?

the US Govt is not a business and we don't have COGS, net income, etc..

we have a baseline and anything we can't pay for get's added to the debt

a dollar of revenue raised is equivalent to a dollar of spending saved

neither is "more effective" than the other at reducing the deficit

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tonymctones
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« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2012, 07:51:37 PM »

the US Govt is not a business and we don't have COGS, net income, etc..

we have a baseline and anything we can't pay for get's added to the debt

a dollar of revenue raised is equivalent to a dollar of spending saved

neither is "more effective" than the other at reducing the deficit
hahah the govt most certainly does have COGS...infrastructure, personel, materials = labor, materials and overhead

we provide many services military, post office, political leadership etc. you really think there isnt direct cost associated with providing those?

thats the COGS brainchild...

the keep their accounting books just like any other company does

they also have a net income, that is the savings or deficit that we have every year

I bet you think non profits arent businesses either right? LMFAO

I can create a graphic to show you in more detail how spending cuts are better than revenue increases in paying down the debt....

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Straw Man
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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2012, 07:57:14 PM »

hahah the govt most certainly does have COGS...infrastructure, personel, materials = labor, materials and overhead

we provide many services military, post office, political leadership etc. you really think there isnt direct cost associated with providing those?

thats the COGS brainchild...

the keep their accounting books just like any other company does

they also have a net income, that is the savings or deficit that we have every year

I bet you think non profits arent businesses either right? LMFAO

I can create a graphic to show you in more detail how spending cuts are better than revenue increases in paying down the debt....

sure agencies but not the federal budget and you can't compare the federal budget to a business (big or small)
 
a dollar of tax revenue raised is just as effective as a dollar of spending saved at paying down the deficit

I actually expected you to be able to produce some studies to support your claim

surely if it were true the Repubs, Heritage Foundation, or even your favorite Ernst and Young,  would have made this claim already and have a study to prove it
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tonymctones
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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2012, 08:10:11 PM »

sure agencies but not the federal budget and you can't compare the federal budget to a business (big or small)
 
a dollar of tax revenue raised is just as effective as a dollar of spending saved at paying down the deficit

I actually expected you to be able to produce some studies to support your claim

surely if it were true the Repubs, Heritage Foundation, or even your favorite Ernst and Young,  would have made this claim already and have a study to prove it
certainly you can compare the budget from the US to a normal companies buget.

why would you believe you couldnt?

the federal agencies roll up into the federal budget just like different departments roll up into the overall budget for a conglomerate.

LOL it most certainly does, did you create your I/S's?

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Straw Man
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2012, 08:14:47 PM »

certainly you can compare the budget from the US to a normal companies buget.

why would you believe you couldnt?

the federal agencies roll up into the federal budget just like different departments roll up into the overall budget for a conglomerate.

LOL it most certainly does, did you create your I/S's?

because the federal government is not a business

this boils down to your belief that a dollar of spending that is cut is somehow more effective than a dollar of revenue raised via taxes

If that were remotely true you'd be able to prove it

Poeple with vested interest in that belief would have proved it by now

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tonymctones
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2012, 08:19:41 PM »

because the federal government is not a business

this boils down to your belief that a dollar of spending that is cut is somehow more effective than a dollar of revenue raised via taxes

If that were remotely true you'd be able to prove it

Poeple with vested interest in that belief would have proved it by now
hahah whether you want to call it a business is your hang up the fact is though it operates like a business.

It has revenues, COGS, Operating Expenses and a net surplus or deficit at the end of the year AKA net income...

you didnt answer my question straw, did you create the I/S's and do the little exercise?

if you did you would know that cutting operating expenses has a creater effect on the net surplus/deficit than raising revenue.

Id be more than willing to draw it out for you but again youre a finance person this should not be a suprise to you.
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2012, 08:28:54 PM »

for something you dont consider a business the govt sure adheres to business practices for as submitting financial statements(Income statement, Balance sheet, Cash flows)

http://www.gao.gov/financial/fy2011financialreport.html

"The Secretary of the Treasury, in coordination with the Director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), is required annually to submit financial statements for the U.S. government to the President and the Congress."

why would an entity thats not a business create financial reports?

hahahha
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tonymctones
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2012, 08:35:24 PM »

Hey look an income statement from the Govt...seems like something a business would do... Cheesy



* Govt Income Statement.JPG (109.93 KB, 640x480 - viewed 39 times.)
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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2012, 08:36:41 PM »

now have you dont the little experiment i proposed to you?

if you have you will see that cutting costs is more effective then raising revenue Wink
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Straw Man
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« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2012, 08:56:30 PM »

now have you dont the little experiment i proposed to you?

if you have you will see that cutting costs is more effective then raising revenue Wink

this one ?

create a basic income statement with revenue, COGS, Operating expenses and net income

now decrease your operating expense by 20% and notice the difference in net income

then create another I/S with the original operating expense and see how much you have to raise revenue to get to the same net income...you will notice that it is more than 20%

I can draw that out if you dont seem to get it...although you wouldnt think you have to explain this to a person with a finance degree who also has owned his own finance company for years.......

Revenue @ 1000
COGS @ 100
OE @ 100
NI @ 800

Revenue @ 1000
COGS @ 100
OE @ 80
NI @ 820

If  I want to make 820 assuming OE @ 100 I need 1020 in revenue

I'm not sure what %'s you think are important

I still need 20 more in revenue if I want to make 820 while keeping OE @ 100

20 more in revenue or 20 less in OE gives me the same bottom line



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tonymctones
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« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2012, 01:25:00 PM »

this one ?

Revenue @ 1000
COGS @ 100
OE @ 100
NI @ 800

Revenue @ 1000
COGS @ 100
OE @ 80
NI @ 820

If  I want to make 820 assuming OE @ 100 I need 1020 in revenue

I'm not sure what %'s you think are important

I still need 20 more in revenue if I want to make 820 while keeping OE @ 100

20 more in revenue or 20 less in OE gives me the same bottom line
Sorry it took me so long to respond, Ive been in Brazil for the past 2 weeks or so.

Yes that one, maybe I should have explained although I didnt think I needed to as youre in finance but you didnt keep the same gross margin as the original I/S. You see you have to exert extra effort in order to get that revenue. We could assume that the gross margin may decrease a little but I would imagine it would stay pretty close to the same. Ill explain a little more as you probably dont understand. The COGS will rise in order to keep the same gross profit % which is (Revenue-COGS). People arent just going to give you extra money without you having to do extra to gain it.

So lets say the gross margin stays the same:

Original I/S:

Revenue @ 1000
COGS @ 100
OE @ 100
NI @ 800

With a reduction in expenses:

Revenue @ 1000
COGS @ 100
OE @ 80
NI @ 820

With an increase in revenue(including the corresponding increase in COGS to remain at 10% gross margin):

Revenue @ 1020
COGS @ 102
OE @ 100
NI @ 818

Now notice the net income from an increase in revenue is lower. It may seem marginal now but we are using a revenue number of only 1000. Imagine using a revenue number of a couple trillion...

You see cost reduction does more for the bottom line than revenue increases.

If you can seriously sit there and tell me that there isnt a butt load of money that can be cut from both rep and dem causes I will gladly jump on board with raising taxes.

BUT if you cant you really need to rethink youre viewpoints.
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