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Author Topic: My issue with upper lower and push pull.  (Read 1646 times)
alxcr84
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« on: November 28, 2012, 09:59:17 PM »

Well ill begin with push pull..

I love push day bench, bnp, laterals, extensions, etc. I recover fine. Problem is by the time im ready for pull day, is recovered and losing firmness, so I just want to do push again and forget back.

I tried solving this by doing all upperbody together and I find that by the time my cns is ready for lowerbody day, My upperbody already begs for more.

ive done fullbody and I find the recovery to be a nightmare.

Any suggestions? Thanks!
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Yev33
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 10:02:17 PM »

How long have you been training and what do your big compound lift numbers look like?
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alxcr84
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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 10:28:42 PM »

On and off since highschool, im 28. Earlier I benched 175 x 13 just short of failure, with good form, feet on a chair (my bench is kinda tall)

For BNP Im only going up to 105 for higher reps 12 to 20.

I cant do many chins either i always found tjem hard to progress on.

I really never did focus on legs for more than a few months at a time. I find that squats/deads require so much recovery that the fullness of my upperbody is compromised negatively.
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Yev33
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 11:28:01 PM »

The 4 days a week upper/lower split has been used by countless people with success. You can't judge how effective your training is on how firm your muscles feel from session to session. You have to look at the overall progress. Are you getting stronger? Are you putting on muscle? Sometimes people get caught up in the short term and fail to plan for the month to month (let alone year to year) progress that is necessary for meaningful changes to take place.

You mentioned doing full body routines and having issues with recovery. Most people that have recovery issues on full body routines try to cram a 5-6 day bodybuilding split into 3 workouts a week (this also applies to the upper/lower splits as well). That's not how those routines are meant to be used.

What are your goals?
You mentioned not training legs seriously. If your goals are to put on as much muscle as you can or become as strong as you can, you can't neglect lower body training.

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Donny
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2012, 06:29:38 AM »

The 4 days a week upper/lower split has been used by countless people with success. You can't judge how effective your training is on how firm your muscles feel from session to session. You have to look at the overall progress. Are you getting stronger? Are you putting on muscle? Sometimes people get caught up in the short term and fail to plan for the month to month (let alone year to year) progress that is necessary for meaningful changes to take place.

You mentioned doing full body routines and having issues with recovery. Most people that have recovery issues on full body routines try to cram a 5-6 day bodybuilding split into 3 workouts a week (this also applies to the upper/lower splits as well). That's not how those routines are meant to be used.

What are your goals?
You mentioned not training legs seriously. If your goals are to put on as much muscle as you can or become as strong as you can, you can't neglect lower body training.


A very Good post.. my opinion is cut back on the exercises and you can either do upper/lower or Push/pull/legs.  do only 3 to 5 basic exercises in each workout. Quality and not quantity..save the laterals till you have built up a bit of weight on.. Bench press, squats, Barbell rows, Parallel Bar Dips,Deadlifts. I suggest you read "Brawn" and look at some Abbreviated routines by Stuart McRobert. you will then recover better and i am sure be more motivated. Yev33 has really gave good advice too.
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jpm101
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2012, 10:52:05 AM »

Of course Alxcr84 didn't lay out his currents individual workouts, with more information to work with; like how many exercises, sets, training at home/alone (sounds like it), etc. Most guy's who come here and want advice do the same thing. Is the future goal to just look good,being stronger than average, become a mass monster or powerful in  lifts?

Is the time factor for more serious workouts going to be a problem, as how many days are you really free to give a good effort to training. Perhaps your body type (and CNS) will progress on fewer workouts in a week, say 2 or 3 at the most. Most guy's train too much per week anyway. remember that recovery is different for each of us. Another mistake that a majority of trainee's make is going to the point of failure on most sets of a exercise. Is the caloric daily intake enough to handle the body's requirement for daily normal repair and the capacity to handle progress muscle growth and strength increases?

Many options for short and productive workouts that can boost muscular development, and at times at an alarming rate, going with the K.I.S.S. protocol. Might suggest 5X5's as a start, with only one exercise per body part. Sort of  like jump starting the body to begin making gains again. And avoiding any attempt of going to failure, on any set.

This will be like a back to the basic workout, which a lot of guy's try when all else seems to fail..again with 5X5's. If this even appears too much for your CNS, than drop down to 3X5's.

Upper body push/pulls in the same workout.  Like BB rows and benches, though use which ever compound movement you prefer....inclines, dips, chins, lat pulls, etc. Finish will a tricep and bicep movement, if you wish. But only 2 sets each.  Lateral raises are extensions exercises, so should not be included in this present workout scheme.

Lower body: truth be told, most BB'ers do not like doing leg exercises, except maybe for calves. But serious leg exercises will boost the metabolism into a higher gear. Which in return can advance muscle gains.

Might suggest the squat or BB Hack squat..5X5's.  (Personal view injected here, take it for what it's worth: would suggest DL's, which are  direct leg movement, when done correctly, but than again, most do not learn how to do them the correct way. Actually BB'ers never really need DL's from the floor, starting from just below knee level can work just as well. Unless going into PL'ing.) Add calves, if you wish.

Example:

Monday:  upper body..push/pull
Wed:   lower body
Fri:   Upper body

Following Monday:  Lower body
Wed:  Upper body
Fri: Lower body

Alternate each starting Monday with upper or lower body. Try all this for 2 or 3 month, than go on to something different, if you wish.   Good luck.

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alxcr84
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 12:46:26 AM »

A very Good post.. my opinion is cut back on the exercises and you can either do upper/lower or Push/pull/legs.  do only 3 to 5 basic exercises in each workout. Quality and not quantity..save the laterals till you have built up a bit of weight on.. Bench press, squats, Barbell rows, Parallel Bar Dips,Deadlifts. I suggest you read "Brawn" and look at some Abbreviated routines by Stuart McRobert. you will then recover better and i am sure be more motivated. Yev33 has really gave good advice too.

I have brawn, as well as super squats. Ive also been reading Christian Thibadeau stuff on hardgainers and ectos. Although Im 5 9, 190, my structure is predominantly ecto, but im also somewhat fast twitch dominant. Being is this predicament sucks because while I have the ability to gain strength decently, my capacity to recover from heavy leg work is pathetic. Maybe because they are deconditioned (i hope).
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alxcr84
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 12:58:53 AM »

Im going to force myself to begin legs training. The only way ill do it through wholebody training.

Im going with a couple of Thibadeaus (he must be french canadian) routines templates from one of his hardgainer articles. Clearly he has trained and is sympathetic to the physical challenges of the ecto hardgainer.

Wholebody #1

Back squat
Bench press
Bent over row


Wholebody #2

Conventional Deadlift
Incline press
Closegrip Chins


Im personally gonna throw in accessory stuff for delts and arms, but limit it.

He also has a third workout with push press and powercleans but these two cover my bases just fine. Im going to alternatw them every few days. Probably atleast 4 days in between.
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alxcr84
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 01:14:46 AM »

Fyi, parenting and bodybuilding dont mix. I never get enough sleep and am constantly stressed. My diet is bad even for someone who doesnt lift. I probably shouldnt even lift on a bad diet like this, but I do my best to emphasize protein always, and boost carbs around my workouts.
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Donny
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 02:49:46 AM »

Yep...you have a Family and that is more important. You are on the right way with your routines and you can do simple routines at home. Squat stands,Barbell,Bench and a chinning bar is a plus. No driving to the gym and wasting your time. Here is also some good stuff for you...
http://workout-routines.net/basic-bulk-power-routine-part-4/
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