This is why I think Liberals are almost all full of S$%%

[Option D]

And they want you too STFU about complaining for things Obama is doing when his republican counter parts would wreck the country again if given the chance.

mutha ... effin... right...

[Soul Crusher]

mutha ... effin... right...

What did the repubs do to crash the nation? 

[B_B_C]

Most things that go on in Marine Boot Camp would be considered torture. 

I though the marines gave their voluntary aduld consent / permission when they joined up.
please tell me if this not so.

[whork]

What did the repubs do to crash the nation? 

Stole from the nation be running record deficits while giving tax breaks to rich.

[Soul Crusher]

Stole from the nation be running record deficits while giving tax breaks to rich.

So what did the Democrats do from 2006 - 2010 to correct any of that when they controlled the congress?

[B_B_C]

Most things that go on in Marine Boot Camp would be considered torture. 

I though the marines gave their voluntary adult consent / permission when they joined up.



please tell me if this not so.

[Soul Crusher]

I though the marines gave their voluntary adult consent / permission when they joined up.



please tell me if this not so.

No such thing as consenting to have crimes committed against you. 

[B_B_C]

No such thing as consenting to have crimes committed against you. 

but how do know who committed the crime
isnt that the job of the courts?

[whork]

So what did the Democrats do from 2006 - 2010 to correct any of that when they controlled the congress?

Two wrongs dont make a right.

There are no saints here only sinners.

But now in the present dem wants to raise taxes on rich and lower it for the middle-class where repub wants to do the reverse.

[tbombz]

torture is unnecessary because it is almost always ineffective.

drone strikes are almost always effective and completely necessary when you take into account that we are often targeting individuals who are located in regions that we couldnt access by ground without tipping them off as to our approach and letting them get away.

one is cruel without good reason (usually doesnt result in evidence), the other is "cruel" with very good reason (usually does result in death of militant)

[dr.chimps]

Attended a really good event tonight and there was a national security debate between former Congresswoman and DA Liz Holtzman and former Bush Admn Advisor Jay Lefkowitz, Esq. who is now partner at a huge law firm Kirkland Ellis.  He was advisor to W after 9/11

Want to know why I think most self described "liberals" are completely full of S$%?

Well Ms. Holtsman tried to make the argument that waterboarding under the Bush/Cheney Admn was and is worse than Extra-judicial Drone Strikes wo any guidelines or oversight under the Obama Admn that has resulted in deaths of many civilians.

Lets' see - if its me what do i pick? Water pored over my head to simulate drowning but leaving no permanent disfigurement or injury or being blown to smitherines w/o so much as a warrant or court order, let alone even a guilty conviction in abstentia even w/o a jury?
 
hhhmmm really hard choice there. lol!!!!

XXXXXXXX

[whork]

torture is unnecessary because it is almost always ineffective.

drone strikes are almost always effective and completely necessary when you take into account that we are often targeting individuals who are located in regions that we couldnt access by ground without tipping them off as to our approach and letting them get away.

one is cruel without good reason (usually doesnt result in evidence), the other is "cruel" with very good reason (usually does result in death of militant)

This!!

[syntaxmachine]

Well Ms. Holtsman tried to make the argument that waterboarding under the Bush/Cheney Admn was and is worse than Extra-judicial Drone Strikes wo any guidelines or oversight under the Obama Admn that has resulted in deaths of many civilians.

What was her argument?

Lets' see - if its me what do i pick? Water pored over my head to simulate drowning but leaving no permanent disfigurement or injury or being blown to smitherines w/o so much as a warrant or court order, let alone even a guilty conviction in abstentia even w/o a jury?
 
hhhmmm really hard choice there. lol!!!!

All you've said here is something to the effect of, 'I disagree with Holtsman's conclusion because I think it is ridiculous. BOOOOO!!' But this is a very uninteresting thing to say -- everybody does it all the time and it doesn't reveal much other than certain psychological facts about the speaker -- and as a lawyer you ought to know it is the reasoning that leads to people's conclusions that we ought to be interested in.

[240 is Back]

What did the repubs do to crash the nation? 

I think some repubs openly screamed "shut it down" about the US govt.   

That's pretty much the definition of crashing the nation.

[Soul Crusher]

U.S. Drone Strikes Are Causing Child Casualties: Video and Report

Posted: 12/01/2012 4:06 pm



During my recent trip to Pakistan as part of our upcoming documentary film, Drones Exposed, I was struck most by the stories told to me by children who had experienced a U.S. drone strike firsthand. The impact of America’s drone war in the likes of Pakistan and Yemen will linger on, especially for the loved ones of the 178 children killed in those countries by U.S. drone strikes.

War Costs’ latest video (with accompanying report) brings attention to the children who have died as a result of drone strikes. The video names some of the children who perished in these strikes, and points out the obfuscation tactics of American officials who will not own up to the significant amount of civilian casualties that have occurred due to this legally- and morally-dubious policy.


 
In addition to the video, War Costs offers this report detailing the effects of drone strikes on children. The findings come mainly from the diligent investigative reporting of TBIJ and the groundbreaking reports on the impact of drone strikes by Stanford and New York University researchers (Living Under Drones: Death, Injury and Trauma to Civilians from US Drone Practices in Pakistan) and researchers at Columbia University (The Civilian Impact of Drones: Unexamined Costs, Unanswered Questions).

In an effort to compel answers about why these innocent civilians have died without acknowledgement or explanation from the U.S. government, War Costs is calling on the U.S. House of Representatives to debate and pass Rep. Dennis Kucinich's bill that calls for more transparency regarding U.S. drone strike policy.
 
For more on War Costs’ upcoming drones film, visit our website, or at Facebook and Twitter.

[B_B_C]

"Quote from: 333386 on 30-11-2012, 18:09:19
No such thing as consenting to have crimes committed against you. "



but how do know who committed the crime
isnt that the job of the courts?

[B_B_C]

"Quote from: 333386 on 30-11-2012, 18:09:19
No such thing as consenting to have crimes committed against you. "



but how do know who committed the crime
isnt that the job of the courts?

[Soul Crusher]

Not sure what you are asking. 

[whork]

U.S. Drone Strikes Are Causing Child Casualties: Video and Report

Posted: 12/01/2012 4:06 pm



During my recent trip to Pakistan as part of our upcoming documentary film, Drones Exposed, I was struck most by the stories told to me by children who had experienced a U.S. drone strike firsthand. The impact of America’s drone war in the likes of Pakistan and Yemen will linger on, especially for the loved ones of the 178 children killed in those countries by U.S. drone strikes.

War Costs’ latest video (with accompanying report) brings attention to the children who have died as a result of drone strikes. The video names some of the children who perished in these strikes, and points out the obfuscation tactics of American officials who will not own up to the significant amount of civilian casualties that have occurred due to this legally- and morally-dubious policy.


 
In addition to the video, War Costs offers this report detailing the effects of drone strikes on children. The findings come mainly from the diligent investigative reporting of TBIJ and the groundbreaking reports on the impact of drone strikes by Stanford and New York University researchers (Living Under Drones: Death, Injury and Trauma to Civilians from US Drone Practices in Pakistan) and researchers at Columbia University (The Civilian Impact of Drones: Unexamined Costs, Unanswered Questions).

In an effort to compel answers about why these innocent civilians have died without acknowledgement or explanation from the U.S. government, War Costs is calling on the U.S. House of Representatives to debate and pass Rep. Dennis Kucinich's bill that calls for more transparency regarding U.S. drone strike policy.
 
For more on War Costs’ upcoming drones film, visit our website, or at Facebook and Twitter.

So you dont like casualties?

Then dont start wars and then blame others for finishing your job because you are a failure.

[B_B_C]

Not sure what you are asking. 

I thought you were a lawyer, are you not able to follow the argument you set up?

[Soul Crusher]

I thought you were a lawyer, are you not able to follow the argument you set up?

For example - if I tell you go ahead shoot me - and you follow through - you do not have a valid argument that I consented to it.   

That was my point. 

[B_B_C]

Quote from: B_B_C on 30-11-2012, 16:47:26
Have you been waterboarded recently?

How regardless of dresscode how is it not torture if being done against your permission?


Quote from: 333386 on 30-11-2012, 16:51:35
Same can be said of sleep deprivation, blasting loud music 24 7, etc. 
When I think of torture of think of people hung off the wall from chains being poked w hot pokers, bashed w clubs, etc 

Quote from: B_B_C on 30-11-2012, 17:07:49
so you are an a la carte sadist provided of course that you and yours are not on the menu



Quote from: 333386 on 30-11-2012, 17:09:34
Most things that go on in Marine Boot Camp would be considered torture. 


Quote from: B_B_C on 30-11-2012, 18:08:31
I though the marines gave their voluntary adult consent / permission when they joined up.
please tell me if this not so.


Quote from: 333386 on 30-11-2012, 18:09:19
No such thing as consenting to have crimes committed against you. 




Quote from: B_B_C on 03-12-2012, 16:21:48
but how do know who committed the crime
isnt that the job of the courts?

Quote from: 333386 on Today at 13:23:40
Not sure what you are asking. 

For example - if I tell you go ahead shoot me - and you follow through - you do not have a valid argument that I consented to it.   

That was my point. 

[avxo]

No such thing as consenting to have crimes committed against you. 

An action can be a crime in some circumstances but not in others. It's a crime for someone to operate on me and remove a kidney without my consent. But it's not a crime if I consent to donate a kidney. You're a lawyer, you should know that the quintessential element of whether a crime has been committed is mens rea.