Build size with the 12-15-20 rep range?

[Rudee]

Seems to be a lot of people with joint issues lately.   I was talking to three people this week at the gym. (all in their late 30's) and all three were commenting on their knees or shoulders being shot from years of heavy lifting.  

I had tendonitis in both biceps from doing chins.  It took about 15 months before it healed well enough that I could train without pain.   A good friend of mine has arthritis in both his knees and has been training legs using the Super Slow technique, and claims he's able to get in a good workout without experiencing joint pain. 

[dj181]

If your over 12-15% bodyfat, then the best thing you can do for yourself is to get to 8-10%. If it means just training light, than so be it. You will feel so much better leaner. However the journey to get there may be hell.

the journey from 8% to 6% is hell

going from 15% to 10% ain't so rough

[The Grim Lifter]

Just go with a weight you can do 12-15 or even more controlled reps. It's the muscles being worked that matters, the weight you use doesn't make a big difference. Once i started doing this and stopped being stupid going heavy, i stopped having joint problems and looked better. I would say a good 4 pounds heavier too, i could get lighter previously but didn't look as good as now.

Last night i did Bent Over rows and did 20 reps. Worked great.

[POB]

Shoot for 20 and don't do less than 15, use perfect form and squeeze. If your doing the exercises/eating right you will get results

[JasonH]

Yep - I do 15-20 on all leg exercises and 10-15 on all upper body exercises. But at the end of the day as long as you work the muscle and you tear down the fibres then you'll stimulate growth.

[Metabolic]

1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance

This varies but usually by a rep or so.

Please dont buy into this crap, especially if youre natural.

Youre gonna have to work with what you have, the heavier and safer you can.

[Dr Dutch]

The rep philosophy only goes so far....if you get injured from low reps, you won't grow anyway.
I will never do less than 15 reps for legs again, and no less that 12 for UB. You can grow with higher reps for sure.
More tendinitis at high reps ?  I think that's crapp....

So says DR Dutch

[MR MUSCLES]

1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance

This varies but usually by a rep or so.

what a fucking idiot.

[deceiver]

5-8 reps on basic movements and linear progression is the ONLY way I can progress, juice or no juice. Otherwise I stagnate pretty quickly.

[Krankenstein]

What kind of tendonitis specifically?  I had terrible tendonitis in my elbow and forearms(tennis and golfers elbow)  Simply changing the types of lifts have done wonder for me without sacrificing weight.  I also increase my warmup sets and reps as needed.

Had tendonitis for about 14 months straight and have been relatively healthy for the last year.

At that point it is considered tendonosis (chronic tendonitis)

Depending on the joint that is affected, the most effective way around tendonitis is take a couple of weeks (3 - 4) and concentrate on more essentric type of work with medium loads.  Little heat/ice combo (10 - 15 mins of each, heat first).  Also some deep tissue work may not be a bad idea combined with your favorite OTC anti-inflammatory

[doriancutlerman]

yes, is possibel, just do it for couple years consistently and diet nicely, will be good.

if you give up after 2 weeks thinking it didnt work, then it was the wrong hobby in the first place, then you oughta do something with faster rewards, like, bank robberies or something.

LOL   Funny stuff, even if that's more like a faster road to getting punked in some prison or blown away by a SWAT team

[Archer77]

Big time bro, trust me, I mean doesn't mean you inject today and tomorrow "wolla" but it will make the joints tendons and ligament a lot stronger and while using them a lot more without the pain it will bring them back to normal. After 1 month on juice all my joint pains are completely gone and can do any exercise comfortably, hell I can even arm wrestle.

Thanks, man. A lot of good info. Something to think about.  I've never used gh but I've heard it can negatively affect the joints.  Any experience with this?

[Coach is Back!]

Please dont buy into this crap, especially if youre natural.

Youre gonna have to work with what you have, the heavier and safer you can.

Back up your quote.

[Coach is Back!]

what a fucking idiot.

Care to back this up asshole? Get yur head out of bodybuilding magazines and you might learn something. But judging by your post I doubt it, Mr six post gimmick.

[mass243]

Cum'on now... how would the cyclists, sprinters and so on have 'massive' legs if there was a magic number of reps which you can't exceed 

[Coach is Back!]

what a fucking idiot.

It's this type of "thinking" would be the reason why bodybuilding-type training will never advance. More drugs, zero knowledge of training physiology.

[funk51]

ask yourself what would mike do?

[Coach is Back!]

ask yourself what would mike do?

Up the dose.....of course.

[Archer77]

ask yourself what would mike do?

Have some meth and chase it down with his own urine?

[funk51]

both correct.

[Metabolic]

Back up your quote.

Retractile muscle tissue grows on progressive overload, its the basic adaptation of the protein muscle tissue. &guy, for all practical purposes, means necessarilly stronger, this is true for hormonized athletes, though the training regime may vary because of augmented protein accretion and synthesis.

Saying that there is something as bigger and not stronger, or stronger but not bigger makes no sense.  You will never be big if you dont squat big, you will never squat big if you are not big.


Oh, and dont even worry about starting a discussion of this, citation wars and "I have a friend" examples dont work on the internet.


Also, steroids are the reason why people dont know how to strength train, they do much of the work, as you may already know, a natural trainee will grow less overtime (not a new trainee) than a hormonized individual who doesnt actually strength train because of the sheer anabolic property of aas.

[Coach is Back!]

Retractile muscle tissue grows on progressive overload, its the basic adaptation of the protein muscle tissue. &guy, for all practical purposes, means necessarilly stronger, this is true for hormonized athletes, though the training regime may vary because of augmented protein accretion and synthesis.

Saying that there is something as bigger and not stronger, or stronger but not bigger makes no sense.  You will never be big if you dont squat big, you will never squat big if you are not big.


Oh, and dont even worry about starting a discussion of this, citation wars and "I have a friend" examples dont work on the internet.

No citation war, son. You're forgetting one MAJOR and most important part of your little analogy. The energy systems, the system that SHOULD dictate set, rep and recovery schemes. The little chart I provided is dependent on the three energy systems. This isn't nothing to be debated, this is, infact....FACT! So the next time you want to call someone a "fucking idiot", realize who you're calling a "fucking idiot". BTW, you didn't back up shit...try again!

[mass243]

the journey from 8% to 6% is hell

going from 15% to 10% ain't so rough

Have you personally been at 6% dj?
I have not but would love to try now at my older days... would be good target to work towards as I'm not getting bigger anyways.

[Metabolic]

No citation war, son. You're forgetting one MAJOR and most important part of your little analogy. The energy systems, the system that SHOULD dictate set, rep and recovery schemes. The little chart I provided is dependent on the three energy systems. This isn't nothing to be debated, this is, infact....FACT! So the next time you want to call someone a "fucking idiot", realize who you're calling a "fucking idiot". BTW, you didn't back up shit...try again!

I did not call you a fucking idiot, and I have about 3 gigs of pdf books about this, again, I aint starting a citation war because I already know that this old broscience rep range thing is outdated, reason why all serious contemporary strength trainers DONT follow it, alas, you are not a serious strength trainer and are only known on getbig, of which half thinks youre a dumb fuck.


Also, higher rep ranges basically means more glucose (a higher metabolization and accretion rate) inside a given cell, not higher rates of protein synthesis on the muscle fiber, that is all it matters for in terms of energy.  You fail at taining, once again.

[Coach is Back!]

I did not call you a fucking idiot, and I have about 3 gigs of pdf books about this, again, I aint starting a citation war because I already know that this old broscience rep range thing is outdated, reason why all serious contemporary strength trainers DONT follow it, alas, you are not a serious strength trainer and are only known on getbig, of which half thinks youre a dumb fuck.


Also, higher rep ranges basically means more glucose inside a given cell, not higher rates of protein synthesis on the muscle fiber, that is all it matters for in terms of energy.  You fail at taining, once again.

Define "serious" strength trainer"? I'm really not interested on whether you have 3gig's or 43 gig's. of PDF books, I have my share as well, it depends on where and who you're getting info from. Again, I have no idea where you're getting your info from but this is not only being taught in every kinese program in the country including CS Fullerton (who incidentally used one of my trainers in this months S&C Journal)  but also being practiced by virtually every team S&C coach in the country. So again, define "serious strength trainer".