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Author Topic: Can we talk about why Public Schools are failing?  (Read 1459 times)
Roger Bacon
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« on: December 04, 2012, 08:43:31 PM »

Huh

I only had one good teacher in my Public School career.  Lips sealed

The rest were dumber than the students, or just didn't give a fuck.


Show on Frontline about this right now.
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2012, 08:50:03 PM »

its not an easy answer because many things factor into it:

Parents
home life
culture (music, role models, TV etc.)
the teachers
money put into schools
curriculum
Class size
over sized admin
etc.

Frankly i think Parents and home life have the biggest influence.


I have quite a few good teachers and only a few bad ones.  but that quite some time ago.   My son, 21, had some good teachers
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2012, 08:58:43 PM »

Unions and Liberals   

Case closed. 
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2012, 09:20:40 PM »

Parents.

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Fury
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2012, 09:23:53 PM »

Unions and a classroom that is more concerned with making everyone feel special as opposed to actually teaching them anything useful.
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2012, 09:28:25 PM »

I'm just wondering if the teachers are lazy, and ignorant in most school districts, or just mine?


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Pray_4_War
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 12:32:00 AM »

Because students are taught what to think and not how to think.     
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Primemuscle
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2012, 01:10:06 AM »

Get a teaching degree, take a comparatively low paying job teaching for a few years and then come back an tell everyone what is wrong with education.

Just so you know, teachers nationwide made an average starting salary of approximately $34,537 as of November 2010. The average classroom size for elementary school is approximately 30 students. This includes a percentage of ELL students and students with learning and emotional disabilities who are on an IEP. High school classroom sizes are larger and growing as schools close and teachers are laid off. No child left behind requirements mean that all students regardless of any learning challenges, such as ELL students and those on an IEP count in the schools "report card" meaning that these students are tested the same as all other students and often bring the schools test score results down depending on their percentage as compared to other non-challenged students.

 
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JBGRAY
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 03:46:14 PM »

It is difficulty of curriculum that is tied to funding.  The more students fail, the less funding the school obtains. Lots of students are graduating high school on low reading levels and basic mathematical skills and are ultimately ill-prepared to enter college or the military, much less compete with their peers on a global scale.  Students in some Third World nations without access to even a quarter to what students in even the poorest US districts get run circles around their US counterparts.

The solutions?  Here ya go!

- CHALLENGE the student, irregardless of their income level, race, religion, locality, etc......on a scale that is compatible with what children around the world are learning.

- If a student fails, they fail....have them repeat the grade.  If a person is in their mid 20s when they graduate, so be it.

- Funding should be static, not performance-based.
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Archer77
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 03:47:56 PM »

Unions and Liberals   

Case closed. 

Disinterested parents who think school is a glorified baby sitter has a lot to do with it too.
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A
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2012, 05:06:36 PM »

Because students are taught what to think and not how to think.     


Good one.  I think there's a lot of truth in that.
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2012, 05:24:39 PM »

ACLU writes the rules and laws for the PS systems....take it from there.
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2012, 05:38:00 PM »

It is difficulty of curriculum that is tied to funding.  The more students fail, the less funding the school obtains. Lots of students are graduating high school on low reading levels and basic mathematical skills and are ultimately ill-prepared to enter college or the military, much less compete with their peers on a global scale.  Students in some Third World nations without access to even a quarter to what students in even the poorest US districts get run circles around their US counterparts.

The solutions?  Here ya go!

Quote
- CHALLENGE the student, irregardless
regardless
Quote
of their income level, race, religion, locality, etc......on a scale that is compatible with what children around the world are learning.

It is difficult for teachers to challenge every student individually when they have 30 or more students in a class.

Quote
- If a student fails, they fail....have them repeat the grade.


It is all about credits in high school. Students can fail a semester or grade if they are in elementary school. In high school, they would have to fail several key classes to repeat the grade or semester.

Quote
If a person is in their mid 20s when they graduate, so be it.
Oregon law states that a student can be as old as 19 when their last public school year begins. This would mean that no regular student can be older then 20 years in public High School. I believe there are some variances for special needs students.

Quote
- Funding should be static, not performance-based.
Are you speaking about funding per student? Special needs students are more expensive to educate therefore funding is adjusted for them. Provisions within the No Child Left Behind act, allow for schools losing their accreditation, if a percentage of students fall below certain achievement levels. This is measured via testing all students, including special needs students and ELL students.
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2012, 05:42:52 PM »

ACLU writes the rules and laws for the PS systems....take it from there.

It's not quite like that, coach.  You don't see a lot of social engineering in elementary through high school. The curriculum is actually quite bland and fact oriented.  Now college is where you see a lot of governmental social engineering.  Students are forced to take classes they wouldn't otherwise take in hopes of "broadening" their intellect and experiences.  This should not be the domain of the state.  The state has no business trying to make someone a better person.
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2012, 05:52:15 PM »

ACLU writes the rules and laws for the PS systems....take it from there.

Do you have proof of this? I spent 30 years working in education. I am not aware that the ACLU writes the rules and laws for education. I believe the Department of Education is responsible for this. It is possible, however, that the Dept. of Ed is required to comply with certain laws which could affect student and staff civil liberties.
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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2012, 05:53:32 PM »

Take a look at Finland, which has the best schools in the world.  They do everything pretty much the exact opposite of how we do it.
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2012, 06:16:17 PM »

Do you have proof of this? I spent 30 years working in education. I am not aware that the ACLU writes the rules and laws for education. I believe the Department of Education is responsible for this. It is possible, however, that the Dept. of Ed is required to comply with certain laws which could affect student and staff civil liberties.

You gotta remember you are talking to someone who believes OBama was born in Kenya and is a current coke addict.  Also, in 2008 he believed that if a Dem was elected president an American City would get nuked by terrorists.   
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2012, 06:53:25 PM »

Do you have proof of this? I spent 30 years working in education. I am not aware that the ACLU writes the rules and laws for education. I believe the Department of Education is responsible for this. It is possible, however, that the Dept. of Ed is required to comply with certain laws which could affect student and staff civil liberties.

I'm an S&C coach at two public schools in two different districts in separate counties. The paperwork I had to fill out, Lives scans (which I 100% agree with and also use for our trainers) physical, etc are all a request and written by the ACLU, I had asked one of the teachers about this (a tenured teacher) and I was told the ACLU basically controls PS systems at least here in Cali.

This is what we have to go through. If a kid wants to play football (roughly $1400) for the season and his parents cannot afford it, it's up to other parents on the team (Boosters) to pick up the tab for that kid. In a lot cases, when a teacher turns in a requisition (in this case I needed a room for 30min a week) it usually takes about two weeks for approval. This particular room was not being used. red tape red tape red tape. They make almost everything a hassle.
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2012, 06:55:17 PM »

Do you have proof of this? I spent 30 years working in education. I am not aware that the ACLU writes the rules and laws for education. I believe the Department of Education is responsible for this. It is possible, however, that the Dept. of Ed is required to comply with certain laws which could affect student and staff civil liberties.
you were a janitor at a school, not to give you shit b/c i dont judge a person on their worth by their job but to say you worked in education b/c you were a janitor at a school is stretching the truth.
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« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2012, 06:57:11 PM »

you were a janitor at a school, not to give you shit b/c i dont judge a person on their worth by their job but to say you worked in education b/c you were a janitor at a school is stretching the truth.

Wait, what? I thought he was a teacher?
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« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2012, 06:59:43 PM »

I also need to add that my wife is a credentialed teacher. Although she doesn't teach (we have tutoring for our athletes who need it. We provide that for free) She was also told when she was student teaching about the ACLU being part of PS system.
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magikusar
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« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2012, 07:57:32 PM »

Its summed up nicely liek this:  If everyone gets the same, why get outa bed in morning?

socialism fails because no reason to produce

none

crony capitalism is simply socialism

real capitalism si bring something good and dont force anyone to trade, then only get money if the good you bring to trade is good value

repeat

people dont get how far ahead we could be of current sad state of affairs fi we let this be the rule

ask yourself why are other parts fo world so poor?

because you take from the producer

you never allow capital buildup that leads to higher wages
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Primemuscle
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« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2012, 08:02:56 PM »

I'm an S&C coach at two public schools in two different districts in separate counties. The paperwork I had to fill out, Lives scans (which I 100% agree with and also use for our trainers) physical, etc are all a request and written by the ACLU, I had asked one of the teachers about this (a tenured teacher) and I was told the ACLU basically controls PS systems at least here in Cali.

This is what we have to go through. If a kid wants to play football (roughly $1400) for the season and his parents cannot afford it, it's up to other parents on the team (Boosters) to pick up the tab for that kid. In a lot cases, when a teacher turns in a requisition (in this case I needed a room for 30min a week) it usually takes about two weeks for approval. This particular room was not being used. red tape red tape red tape. They make almost everything a hassle.

Well I must admit that I am not familiar with how these things work with team sports so much as with other aspects of education. But as for paperwork, there is a lot of it regardless of where you are in any government job.

My former position was actually in buildings and maintenance for a large school district, you'd be surprised at the the "red tape" involved in these areas too. I came to believe that asbestos abatement was something of a racket with huge proceeds going to companies who do this work. If there was one tiny piece of asbestos anywhere in a building, no matter how well contained, it required annual inspections by outside personal. Every year all maintenance staff was require to attend asbestos classes taught by OSHA personnel. I also purchased a lot of cleaning products. You might find this hard to believe, but these products had to be so safe that one could literally drink them and not get sick....and yet they needed to clean things too. Don't even get me started on quaternary disinfectants.
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magikusar
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« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2012, 08:05:26 PM »

of course

socialism is all about grabbing un earned cash
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« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2012, 08:09:29 PM »

I also need to add that my wife is a credentialed teacher. Although she doesn't teach (we have tutoring for our athletes who need it. We provide that for free) She was also told when she was student teaching about the ACLU being part of PS system.

I think you misunderstood me. I was not saying that the ACLU doesn't influence the law, including laws written by the Department of Education. I just don't agree that "the ACLU writes the rules and laws for the PS systems," as you suggested. You tell me I am splitting hairs here, but I think there is a distinct difference.
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