Author Topic: The blurred line between volume and HIT  (Read 5366 times)

Yev33

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The blurred line between volume and HIT
« on: December 16, 2012, 12:07:22 PM »
Like most things in life,  people tend to fall somewhere in the middle between polar opposites.
Let me explain.
 
Let's say you are going to bench press and you decided that you want to use a weight that will allow you to get around 8 reps per set.

The HIT approach: You are planning to do one all out set with 275. So you do a brief warm up, something like 135x8, 185x3, 225x2. The warm up is very brief because your focus is the one all out set with 275.

The volume approach (the textbook volume approach). You are going to do 4 sets of 8 with the same weight. Now if your best set of 8 is 275lbs, you know you won't be able to use that weight  for all 4 sets. So your workout might look  something like this: 135x8, 185x5, 225x8,8,8,8.

The blurred line : You are going to pyramid up in the 6-9 rep range. So your workout might look like this: 135x9, 185x9, 225x6-9, 275x6-9 . This isn't HIT, because there is fatigue being accumulated during the work up sets.  It's really not volume since you are not repeating any sets. And you are really working up instead of just warming up.

The third approach is generally what people gravitate toward to once they have been training for several years and have reached the intermediate stage ( squat 1.75xbw, bench 1.5xbw, deadlift 2xbw,standing overhead press 1xbw, weighted chin up/pull up bw+50%).

The one draw back of this approach is that it's difficult to see where the warm up sets end and work sets begin, this is more than just a minor detail, because the overall workout volume and training load is affected by what weights you are using for your work up sets.

oldtimer1

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 02:27:01 PM »
Sometimes we can make things complicated. Jeff Everson once wrote an article titled something like,You don't have to be a scientist  to be a bodybuilder. Some really good bodybuilders couldn't tell you what they did for chest the day before.

So in effect what you are saying is that you have a pure hit trainer, a volume trainer and one that uses both systems to an extent. I would say use all three from time to time.

Donny

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 02:57:43 PM »
I warm up with one set..then the next three are with my max weight . I may drop reps on the last set but the weight stays the same .

Yev33

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 04:19:01 PM »
There have been a lot of threads lately about HIT vs volume. I wanted to start one dedicated to this sort of in-between approach. While many people would classify this as a volume type style of training, I wanted to show the fundamental difference between the two.
Obviously this is nothing new or ground breaking, as I said earlier I feel like most people tend to gravitate toward this type of approach after some years of training. But I did put a twist on it that I have not seen before. I organized it  in a way that will encourage progressive overload but in the BB style rep ranges. As well as paying careful attention to total volume.

WARNING! Not for the mathematically impared

3 rep ranges of ascending pyramid sets, pick one rep range for an excercise to use during your workout.

3x8-12   60%x12   80%x8-12   100%x8-12=(8-12rp max)     ( total reps 24-36 )

4x6-9     55%x9     70%x9        85%x6-9    100%x6-9=(6-9rp max)       ( total reps 24-36 )

6x4-6     50%x6     60%x6        70%x6        80%x6      90%x4-6     100%x4-6=(4-6rp max)  (total reps 24-36)


So let's say your target weight for the workout is squatting 405 for 6-9 reps

Your workout would look like this:
135x5 warm up (if you feel like you need it)
225x9 work set
285x9 work set
345x9 work set
405x6-9 work set

You can also use this to organize your training by 3 week waves, I have found this to work really well actually

Week 1 3x8-12
Week 2 4x6-9
Week 3 6x4-6


I don't use this approach with every single excercise, just the big compound ones that I will use first in a workout.


WOOO

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 05:59:26 PM »
way to complex for me to even try

Yev33

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 06:59:49 PM »
It becomes pretty simple once you go through one cycle. If anyone is interested just post the weight and number of reps and I can calculate it out for you.

Barbell movements are the easiest, but I have also used this for weighted chins/pull ups. Dumbell excercises work as well. But I would recommend using barbell movements the first time around until you get the hang of how it works.

I have obviously seen this approach work in my own training as well as several others that were interested in trying it out. It would be interesting to get feedback from more people.

Donny

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 02:24:39 AM »
way to complex for me to even try
well really it looks just like % calculations you can do on a Calculator. Intresting post but i do not see the need to make it complicated. I think warming up with more than 1-2 sets just wastes strength before your max weight. However each to his own.

Yev33

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 05:53:37 AM »
well really it looks just like % calculations you can do on a Calculator. Intresting post but i do not see the need to make it complicated. I think warming up with more than 1-2 sets just wastes strength before your max weight. However each to his own.

Yep, it really is just some very basic math.
What you see in this thread is actually the result of A LOT of trial and error.

What I have actually found is that by doing those work up sets with those percentages, it actually helped my performance on the last set. My body was already acclimated to the rep range and the calculated weight increases made the weight feel more comfortable and manageable.  







Donny

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 06:28:03 AM »
was not criticizing you and it's always great to have diffrent and new ideas on here... ;)

oldtimer1

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 06:43:52 AM »
I'm somewhat like you in that I always over analyzed my training. Yet some of the best trainers workout according to how they feel that day. Some figure out everything and put it on paper and try to follow a script when working out. I know I do. Others just walk in and say I feel like doing barbell inclines instead of dumbbell inclines today. They just wing the weight used and adjust on the fly. I'm here to tell you both approaches work.

Eddie Robinson was a duel threat as a power lifter and bodybuilder. He used a method somewhat like yours although I doubt he used a calculator. He would use four work sets outside of warm up. He would use four different weight/poundage but the reps would remain the same. He said when the weight was lighter he just would do the reps stricter and slower to make it hard. 

Yev33

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 07:08:19 AM »
was not criticizing you and it's always great to have diffrent and new ideas on here... ;)

Donny, there are some great people on here and you are definetely one of them.


Yev33

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 07:17:10 AM »
There are obviously different training approaches that work for different people. And my motto has always been " if aint broke, don't fix it". Meaning if whatever training style someone is using is getting them progress and results there is definetely no reason to mess with it.

Several years ago I was stuck in training rut where I couldn't make any progress. I started working on these ideas in mid   2010.

The one really cool thing I found is that I have had training sessions where I would get to them gym feeling tired and not really motivated. Then I would start going through the sets and being able to get all of my reps planned for that session regardless.

Donny

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 09:05:19 AM »
Donny, there are some great people on here and you are definetely one of them.


Thanks man... ;D

Rmj11

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2019, 05:20:41 PM »
There have been a lot of threads lately about HIT vs volume. I wanted to start one dedicated to this sort of in-between approach. While many people would classify this as a volume type style of training, I wanted to show the fundamental difference between the two.
Obviously this is nothing new or ground breaking, as I said earlier I feel like most people tend to gravitate toward this type of approach after some years of training. But I did put a twist on it that I have not seen before. I organized it  in a way that will encourage progressive overload but in the BB style rep ranges. As well as paying careful attention to total volume.

WARNING! Not for the mathematically impared

3 rep ranges of ascending pyramid sets, pick one rep range for an excercise to use during your workout.

3x8-12   60%x12   80%x8-12   100%x8-12=(8-12rp max)     ( total reps 24-36 )

4x6-9     55%x9     70%x9        85%x6-9    100%x6-9=(6-9rp max)       ( total reps 24-36 )

6x4-6     50%x6     60%x6        70%x6        80%x6      90%x4-6     100%x4-6=(4-6rp max)  (total reps 24-36)


So let's say your target weight for the workout is squatting 405 for 6-9 reps

Your workout would look like this:
135x5 warm up (if you feel like you need it)
225x9 work set
285x9 work set
345x9 work set
405x6-9 work set

You can also use this to organize your training by 3 week waves, I have found this to work really well actually

Week 1 3x8-12
Week 2 4x6-9
Week 3 6x4-6


I don't use this approach with every single excercise, just the big compound ones that I will use first in a workout.



Strong bump I know. I do my sets as you prescribe in the first example. But I donít do 3 sets I do 5-6 sets so it looks like this

Set 1 10-12 reps @ 60% of top weight
Sets 2 and 3 8-12 reps @ 80% of top weight
Sets 4 and 5 (or 6) 8-12 at top weight 100%

This is how Reg park did his sets. So you start with a light/medium set followed by 2 prep sets at the same weight followed by 2-3 top sets at the same weight. I donít train to failure either as it quickly burns me out. I stop a set when the pace of my reps begin to slow down and I start to grind. Save more in the tank and less stress on the cns. It allows me to do more volume which has been proven to be the main driver of muscle growth.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: The blurred line between volume and HIT
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2019, 10:34:11 AM »
All of this is fine for the 1st year or two of training as an adult.  After that just get a good pump a couple days a week and be done with it.  Naturals do not keep making gains throughout our lives so why make life so hard on yourself?