Happy Birthday to the most powerful being to ever and will ever walk the

[jdooly]

  worth a look at least.

[OTHstrong]

There is more evidence of the historical Jesus then any other man in the history of antiquity. I study history and I have studied everyone and not one historical figure has writing dating back from the time they live. Not even Alexander the great, who no one has a problem of his existence from the works of Ptolemy.

We don't question Julius Caesar who is a historical figure that we learned about several centuries after he lived.

Hannibal Barkas and Punic wars, earliest dates are several hundred years after their occurrence.

All the characters from the Trojan Wars from Helen of Troy, Achilles, Hector and Agamemnon to king Priam, all of them where found in a copy of Homer's work, not even the original, again hundreds and hundreds of years after the fact.

Tbomz no offence but you are out to lunch. Very little is known about any historical figure and most that we learn about at the university level have only one credible source and often a very weak one that has been translated and copied from a language not even spoken today.

All Roman Generals
All greek historian
All king from the Achaemenid dynasty
All Assyrian Kings list
All have recorded manuscripts dating several hundred years after they lived.
There is not even a single manuscript on any Pharaoh. Everything we know about them is on Hieroglyphs and to top it off we didn't discover the meaning of 90% of Hieroglyphs until the Rosetta Stone, where we are still finding lots of errors and continue to change wordings and meaning.

Now ready for the good part Tbomz, Cassius Dio and Velleius Paterculus both cover Augustus and they are 2 of the primary source but according to most modern professors they are highly unreliable ohoh  Tbombz that leaves only 2 more source for Augustas, Tacitus and  Suetonius.

Well Tacitus eh, wait a second isn't that one of the guys that mentioned Jesus?  lol....

The primary source of the famous historical figure Augustus, first emperor and founder of Rome is the same primary source that mentioned Jesus. To question Jesus' existence is to question every single historical figure who lived from 100 ad down. Plain and simple

[TrueBB93]

There is more evidence of the historical Jesus then any other man in the history of antiquity. I study history and I have studied everyone and not one historical figure has writing dating back from the time they live. Not even Alexander the great, who no one has a problem of his existence from the works of Ptolemy.

We don't question Julius Caesar who is a historical figure that we learned about several centuries after he lived.

Hannibal Barkas and Punic wars, earliest dates are several hundred years after their occurrence.

All the characters from the Trojan Wars from Helen of Troy, Achilles, Hector and Agamemnon to king Priam, all of them where found in a copy of Homer's work, not even the original, again hundreds and hundreds of years after the fact.

Tbomz no offence but you are out to lunch. Very little is known about any historical figure and most that we learn about at the university level have only one credible source and often a very weak one that has been translated and copied from a language not even spoken today.

All Roman Generals
All greek historian
All king from the Achaemenid dynasty
All Assyrian Kings list
All have recorded manuscripts dating several hundred years after they lived.
There is not even a single manuscript on any Pharaoh. Everything we know about them is on Hieroglyphs and to top it off we didn't discover the meaning of 90% of Hieroglyphs until the Rosetta Stone, where we are still finding lots of errors and continue to change wordings and meaning.

Now ready for the good part Tbomz, Cassius Dio and Velleius Paterculus both cover Augustus and they are 2 of the primary source but according to most modern professors they are highly unreliable ohoh  Tbombz that leaves only 2 more source for Augustas, Tacitus and  Suetonius.

Well Tacitus eh, wait a second isn't that one of the guys that mentioned Jesus?  lol....

The primary source of the famous historical figure Augustus, first emperor and founder of Rome is the same primary source that mentioned Jesus. To question Jesus' existence is to question every single historical figure who lived from 100 ad down. Plain and simple

As a muslim a I  believe 100% Jesus(pbuh) exsisted, theres no question about it. how can anyone question otherwise?

[OTHstrong]

1) i am looking for a reason to believe one way or the other. i dont have an opinion on the subject, there isnt enough evidence either way for me to make up my mind.  

2) islam and judaism are both abrahamic religions and very much related to christianity. of course they accept the validity of "scripture" as a historical record, they do the same exact thing in their own belief systems.

3) there are only a few mentions of jesus in historical records outside of the new testament.

4) compare the historical record of other men from his time and prior, such as ceasar, socrates/plato/aristotle, king tut, etc... to "jesus"..   do it.

This is the most false statement any historian can ever read and you would be expelled from class for saying such a false statement. No historical figure have multiple sources of their existence in the way you put it, most have only one and some 2 or 3 at most, they are often historians writing about them hundreds of years after they lived. All other information comes from poetry and tales again hundreds of years after they occured.

Biggest lie you ever invented, letters from historians to the caeser?, lmao ah Noooooo sir sorry dead wrong. No authentic letter exist from one historian to a caeser, Not 1, such letter would be worth 100 million dollars. There are writing depicting letters from this person to that person but we are talking about writings that are written 3-5 hundred years after not the actual letter.

Only 5-6 six historians talked about Jesus, that is almost record breaking huge for that time period. No other historical figure from that era has that many historian talk about them not even Julius Caeser, most of the information gathered from him comes centuries later. Wow, unreal what you are writing here, simply false.

[garebear]

.

[Bad Boy Dazza]

You've just jumped from "didn't exist," to "maybe he did exist but wasn't who he is claimed to be."  All in less than 10 minutes.

Good to know you give your opinions solid investigation and thought before typing them up on the interwebs.

maybe a man named jesus did exist, maybe he did go around teaching, maybe he did have "apostles" and maybe some of those apostles did die because they would not forsake their loyalty to him.

that doesnt mean the guy actually performed any miracles or in any way shape or form was "holy".


dont get me wrong, i believe in an intelligent creating force. this isnt an atheist talking to you. i just have very many reasons for doubting the validity of man-made religious dogma, that is all.

[Bad Boy Dazza]

i dont believe in beliefs. i have ideas and opinions. beliefs can stifle progress and cause thinking to stagnant.

People love to say this.  But the truth is if you look at ancient history, Christianity led to or played a major role in many of our present day advancements in human rights, including among them the charity or  "welfare system" that I am sure many getbiggers rely upon, and better conditions for homosexuals (a fact that grates many anti-christian homosexuals enormously).

[garebear]

People love to say this.  But the truth is if you look at ancient history, Christianity led to or played a major role in many of our present day advancements in human rights, including among them the charity or  "welfare system" that I am sure many getbiggers rely upon, and better conditions for homosexuals (a fact that grates many anti-christian homosexuals enormously).

[garebear]

People love to say this.  But the truth is if you look at ancient history, Christianity led to or played a major role in many of our present day advancements in human rights, including among them the charity or  "welfare system" that I am sure many getbiggers rely upon, and better conditions for homosexuals (a fact that grates many anti-christian homosexuals enormously).

It also got rid of a lot of witches.

[Griffith]

People love to say this.  But the truth is if you look at ancient history, Christianity led to or played a major role in many of our present day advancements in human rights, including among them the charity or  "welfare system" that I am sure many getbiggers rely upon, and better conditions for homosexuals (a fact that grates many anti-christian homosexuals enormously).

Actually, the pagans had no problems with homosexuals. It was viewed as a part of their culture and even certain religious practices. They didn't even have a word for it. They admired the Greeks, Spartans. Macedonians and especially Alexander the Great....need I say more.

It was Constantine who ordered that homosexuals be burned and the Christian Roman Emperors after him who targeted the homosexuals and then burned down and destroyed the beautiful pagan temples and monuments like savages.

It was the Monotheistic cults which vilified homosexuals, the pagans didn't give a shit.

[Bad Boy Dazza]

Actually, the pagans had no problems with homosexuals.

"The pagans" - do you have any idea how generalized that statement is?  Plenty of pagan or pre-christian societies were BRUTAL in what they did to homosexuals.

[Griffith]

"The pagans" - do you have any idea how generalized that statement is?  Plenty of pagan or pre-christian societies were BRUTAL in what they did to homosexuals.

Greek and Roman pagans obviously.

[Bad Boy Dazza]

Greek and Roman pagans obviously.

Nothing obvious about it. 

[Parker]

It also got rid of a lot of old women accused of being witches and cats.

Fixed

[Griffith]

Nothing obvious about it. 

They are the people we owe our Western Civilization to....and as pagans they had no issue against homosexuals or bisexuals.

[The_Punisher]

face of the earth.  Yehoshua Christ of Nazareth. Can't wait for your return sir.  Thanks for dying for all our sins. It's very unfortunate that all can't enjoy eternal life in heaven but that's what faith is all about.  I pray that all my fellow getbiggers, believers and non-believers, friends and foes, are watched over and their families protected.

In your name I pray. Amen.


*Note



* Don't bother responding with negative comments, by now you know I'm the king of ignoring.

what's your opinion about the second coming?......they said once you die, he has come for you already?

[WOOO]

what's your opinion about the second coming?......they said once you die, he has come for you already?

no homo

[OTHstrong]

.

Hey, weren't you that guy that told the other guy the other day to "grow up"   

[Bad Boy Dazza]

They are the people we owe our Western Civilization to....and as pagans they had no issue against homosexuals or bisexuals.

They played a part in western civilisation, a part which I greatly respect (I have studied ancient religions at University).  But Christianity played a massive part over the last two millenium.

[Hulkotron]

[tbombz]

There is more evidence of the historical Jesus then any other man in the history of antiquity. I study history and I have studied everyone and not one historical figure has writing dating back from the time they live. Not even Alexander the great, who no one has a problem of his existence from the works of Ptolemy.

We don't question Julius Caesar who is a historical figure that we learned about several centuries after he lived.

Hannibal Barkas and Punic wars, earliest dates are several hundred years after their occurrence.

All the characters from the Trojan Wars from Helen of Troy, Achilles, Hector and Agamemnon to king Priam, all of them where found in a copy of Homer's work, not even the original, again hundreds and hundreds of years after the fact.

Tbomz no offence but you are out to lunch. Very little is known about any historical figure and most that we learn about at the university level have only one credible source and often a very weak one that has been translated and copied from a language not even spoken today.

All Roman Generals
All greek historian
All king from the Achaemenid dynasty
All Assyrian Kings list
All have recorded manuscripts dating several hundred years after they lived.
There is not even a single manuscript on any Pharaoh. Everything we know about them is on Hieroglyphs and to top it off we didn't discover the meaning of 90% of Hieroglyphs until the Rosetta Stone, where we are still finding lots of errors and continue to change wordings and meaning.

Now ready for the good part Tbomz, Cassius Dio and Velleius Paterculus both cover Augustus and they are 2 of the primary source but according to most modern professors they are highly unreliable ohoh  Tbombz that leaves only 2 more source for Augustas, Tacitus and  Suetonius.

Well Tacitus eh, wait a second isn't that one of the guys that mentioned Jesus?  lol....

The primary source of the famous historical figure Augustus, first emperor and founder of Rome is the same primary source that mentioned Jesus. To question Jesus' existence is to question every single historical figure who lived from 100 ad down. Plain and simple

This is the most false statement any historian can ever read and you would be expelled from class for saying such a false statement. No historical figure have multiple sources of their existence in the way you put it, most have only one and some 2 or 3 at most, they are often historians writing about them hundreds of years after they lived. All other information comes from poetry and tales again hundreds of years after they occured.

Biggest lie you ever invented, letters from historians to the caeser?, lmao ah Noooooo sir sorry dead wrong. No authentic letter exist from one historian to a caeser, Not 1, such letter would be worth 100 million dollars. There are writing depicting letters from this person to that person but we are talking about writings that are written 3-5 hundred years after not the actual letter.

Only 5-6 six historians talked about Jesus, that is almost record breaking huge for that time period. No other historical figure from that era has that many historian talk about them not even Julius Caeser, most of the information gathered from him comes centuries later. Wow, unreal what you are writing here, simply false.

i dont care much for trying to prove the existence of King Tut or Socrates or Caesar. Doesnt really matter to me whether they lived or not. Certainly quite possible that none of them ever did. 

But since you care so fucking much about whether or not "Jesus" ever existed, please.. provide me with some evidence. Ill let you know what I think of it.

[tbombz]

You've just jumped from "didn't exist," to "maybe he did exist but wasn't who he is claimed to be."  All in less than 10 minutes.

Good to know you give your opinions solid investigation and thought before typing them up on the interwebs.

would you prefer if i claimed to have the answer and stuck to my position no matter what information was presented to me?  

personally, i find it extremely disingenuine and intellectually dishonest for a person to have a strong opinion on such a subject. if you have absolutely no personal experience with something, then what the fuck are you basing your opinion on?  certainly you dont have enough evidence at hand in order to really know one way or the other.

anyways, i never said jesus didnt exist. how the fuck would i know that? the guy supposedly lived over 2,000 years ago. thats about 100 times my age.  if i claimed to have some knowledge about the subject i would be a damned fool.

also, i didnt say there was a chance he misrepreseented himself. (" maybe he did exist but wasnt who he said he was" )   what i said was maybe he did exist but just wasnt who he is portrayed to be in the new testament. remember, that book was not written by jesus. that book was written by other men and done so decades after he supposedly died.  those men could have exaggerated, misrepresented, or just misinterpreted jesus. plus, who says we know what they really wrote anyways? the christian church dominated global politics for like a thousand years and could have easily messed with the writings in order to take a regular man who taught about love and was killed for it and turned him into a magical godly figure who commands submission and worship./

[tbombz]

People love to say this.  But the truth is if you look at ancient history, Christianity led to or played a major role in many of our present day advancements in human rights, including among them the charity or  "welfare system" that I am sure many getbiggers rely upon, and better conditions for homosexuals (a fact that grates many anti-christian homosexuals enormously).

dont confuse correlation with causation. furthermore, dont mistakenly believe that in the absence of one type of causation that another form of causation wouldnt have arisen in its place and resulting in similar or better consequences.

[OTHstrong]

i dont care much for trying to prove the existence of King Tut or Socrates or Caesar. Doesnt really matter to me whether they lived or not. Certainly quite possible that none of them ever did. 

But since you care so fucking much about whether or not "Jesus" ever existed, please.. provide me with some evidence. Ill let you know what I think of it.

You simply don't get it do you?

When it comes to historical figures, there is no evidence in absolute terms, no one can be absolutely proven to have existed. It is only what we choice to accept as evidence at most, however archaeology has proven that 99% of historical figures that are documented are in fact real figures, Why?

Very simple logic here. You have 1 in 50 who can read and you have 1 in 300 who can write during ancient days furthermore one who documented historical facts would have been 1 in ten thousand. So a writer was truly a wealthy position and charged big dollars for his services. A writer would have been a millionaire back in antiquity. So hardly the type of person that would be hired to write gibberish. So when you have one historian that documents a historical figure, by university standards, they are accepted as a true person.

The exception to these rules are poems and mythology and folk lore but these are obvious and can easily be distinguished.

Now we have Tacitus who wrote about Augustus Caesar and his work is taught in major Universities across the globe. Tacitus also wrote about Jesus and other historical figures as well.

See I do not care what you think personally or what you believe but you mislead everyone reading this thread by saying that other historical figures have way more evidence or written work about them or have more primary sources of evidence towards their existence and this is unacceptable. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus having been mentioned by nearly ten historical figures very close in time to his existence is as good as it gets as primary source of evidence towards someones existence.

[The Scott]

tbombz does indeed "get it".  He just does as so many others do and picks and chooses based upon his own desires.  Nothing wrong with that really, but then there is nothing right with it either.

People believe what they choose to believe and quite often because they like or dislike what they hear or read, i.e., how it affects them personally.  The truth of the matter is this:  Only the dead know what to expect when it comes to what lies beyond life.  And they are not talking.

As for Muslims, well they may not deny the existence of Jesus of Nazareth but they most definitely ignore Him.  To follow Muhammad is false and not of Christ.  Don't like that fact?  Too bad.  Islam is definitely not Christianity and Christianity is not Islam.  Islam means to submit.

Never.