The AFTERLIFE is really a DREAM STATE!

[SF1900]

Number one, your whole argument means absolute shit until you can operationally define what is a "good life" and what is a "bad life."

A true scientist would have known that all terms need to be operationally defined.  

Until you do that, your post is complete and utter crap.

[mr.turbo]

rass earthling,

you have fried your brainstem with Chinese psychoactive powders.

I'm coming to jersey in march to pick something up.

see you soon and make sure you have the stuff.

[Mjolnir]

So many calling for 'proof' of the afterlife etc.  There is no proof either way and it appears most people here are closed to any argument that goes against their current thinking.  I am most certainly open to having my mind changed on just about ANYTHING if someone presents an argument that convinces me.  Am I open to there being an afterlife? Sure I am, I don't exactly believe it right now as I can't understand how it fits into this life/universe/science right now but I'm open to it.  I will find out for sure one way or the other one day in the future!

[Archer77]

So ponder this: At the precise moment that we are BORN, the brain releases a powerful hallucinogenic chemical known as DMT(dimethyltryptamine). This same chemical is released EVERY NIGHT when we sleep and it is what causes us to DREAM. We dream every night, whether we remember it or not. Here comes the freaky part; DMT, as it turns out, is also released at the very moment that you DIE. So logically, it would make sense to assume that you enter a DREAM state at the very moment of death. Dream states are timeless and have infinite potential variation. Is it possible that HEAVEN AND HELL are simply DREAM STATES that occur post-mortem? The “afterlife” is simply one long, never-ending, continuous DREAM? Is the CONTENT of that dream determined by HOW WE LIVED OUR LIVES? If we live a GOOD and moral life, perhaps we can dream in death peacefully. If we live a BAD and immoral life, we will dream in death unpeacefully, burderned by feelings of remorse, guilt, fear, and regret. I wonder..

What happens is chemicals are released which cause you to hallucinate until your bodily functions cease completely and then you no longer exist and your corpse becomes worm food.

[haider]

What happens is chemicals are released which cause you to hallucinate until your bodily functions cease completely and then you no longer exist and your corpse becomes worm food.

how do you know this?

[Mjolnir]

What happens is chemicals are released which cause you to hallucinate until your bodily functions cease completely and then you no longer exist and your corpse becomes worm food.

how do you know this?

Beat me to it.

[Archer77]

how do you know this?

That's all we do know. All else is speculation. You can't prove with certainty the existence of a soul let alone an afterlife so the only definable is what happens biologically.

[haider]

That's all we do know. All else is speculation. You can't prove with certainty the existence of a soul let alone an afterlife so the only definable is what happens biologically.

therefore, that is all that is true.

[Archer77]

therefore, that is all that is true.

It's all that's provable.  Consciousness and behavior are biological processes in the brain therefore if the brain dies so does the consciousness. I'm open to something more but I don't get my hopes up.

[Mjolnir]

That's all we do know. All else is speculation. You can't prove with certainty the existence of a soul let alone an afterlife so the only definable is what happens biologically.

So where is the research that says the chemicals are released and you hallucinate when you die?  I guess I'm asking you to show me "proof" that this is what happens.

[Archer77]

So where is the research that says the chemicals are released and you hallucinate when you die?  I guess I'm asking you to show me "proof" that this is what happens.

I'm sure there are but I was working off the premise of the original post.   There have been studies conducted on near death experience where it's been speculated that excess carbon dioxide, which is found in high levels in the blood of these individuals, is partially responsible for these events. I believe dmt released at death is a myth.

[haider]

It's all that's provable.  Consciousness and behavior are biological processes in the brain therefore if the brain dies so does the consciousness. I'm open to something more but I don't get my hopes up.

It's a working hypothesis, one that francis crick I believe calls 'the astonighing hypothesis'. There are many cases of people reporting vivid conscious experience while being clinically dead, which would obviously go against this hypothesis. I believe there is a dutch cardiologist who did a serious study on this phenomenon and wrote a book, but I forget his name now. There are other psychic phenomena that are well proven in laboratory settings (look at Dean Radin's work: youtube would be a good start).

But, my larger point was that just because a thing isn't provable doesn't mean it isn't true.

[Archer77]

It's a working hypothesis, one that francis crick I believe calls 'the astonighing hypothesis'. There are many cases of people reporting vivid conscious experience while being clinically dead, which would obviously go against this hypothesis. I believe there is a dutch cardiologist who did a serious study on this phenomenon and wrote a book, but I forget his name now. There are other psychic phenomena that are well proven in laboratory settings (look at Dean Radin's work: youtube would be a good start).

But, my larger point was that just because a thing isn't provable doesn't mean it isn't true.

Clinically dead is the key word.  The brain may still function for a short duration after the heart discontinues beating.  With the heart no longer pumping oxygen to the brain, the brain begins to starve of oxygen.  This would fall in line nicely with the idea of carbon dioxide levels causing hallucinations.  Near death experiences have been replicated in labs on numerous occasions by manipulating the brain.  It stands to reason that similar processes are occurring in the brains of other people experiencing near death experiences outside the lab.

For something to be true scientifically it must be testable and falsifiable.   Sure, there are theories that, although they havent been proven in the strictest sense, consensus from he scientific community will say are probably correct, but I doubt any scientist would say it is absolutely true.

[Master Blaster]

What if the truth were neither entirely materialistic, nor supernatural, but some bizarre meta physical explanation that seems even more unlikely? If matter itself might be an illusion, it's not a big leap to say the difference between being alive and being dead is besides the point. It's kind of like being a particle and a wave. If time were flat we would all be living and deceased simultaneously.


OK, so I'm babbling. What I'm struggling to say is, maybe it doesn't matter what happens after we die. Maybe the fact that we are asking the question means we are missing some totally fundamental component of reality.

[Straw Man]

So ponder this: At the precise moment that we are BORN, the brain releases a powerful hallucinogenic chemical known as DMT(dimethyltryptamine). This same chemical is released EVERY NIGHT when we sleep and it is what causes us to DREAM. We dream every night, whether we remember it or not. Here comes the freaky part; DMT, as it turns out, is also released at the very moment that you DIE. So logically, it would make sense to assume that you enter a DREAM state at the very moment of death. Dream states are timeless and have infinite potential variation. Is it possible that HEAVEN AND HELL are simply DREAM STATES that occur post-mortem? The “afterlife” is simply one long, never-ending, continuous DREAM? Is the CONTENT of that dream determined by HOW WE LIVED OUR LIVES? If we live a GOOD and moral life, perhaps we can dream in death peacefully. If we live a BAD and immoral life, we will dream in death unpeacefully, burderned by feelings of remorse, guilt, fear, and regret. I wonder..

we all dwell in a permanent and unchanging state

[HTexan]

 

[The Grim Lifter]

Ross you might end up having an endless nightmare about giant sets for legs

[PJim]

Ross, I'm watching Eraserhead right now. It's meaning has become crystal clear to me now after almost giving myself an aneurysm trying to make my way through the metaphorical poo flinging orgy that is your post.

[Radical Plato]

I've never understood why so many men have trouble saying the words "I Don't Know"

[Ross Erstling]

What is REAL?

As my little brother so eleoquently pointed out on my Facebook:

The most fascinating thing about DMT is that the brain also secretes ANTI-DMT after the dmt has run its course...this is what makes us forget about what we have dreamt...the higher the dose of dmt, the more anti dmt as well...the deeper the sleep, the less we remember...the same can be said when dmt was administered in a lab to patients...the higher the dose, the more intense the trip, but the subject remembered practically nothing...when the dose was smaller, the trip wasn't as intense but the patient was able to remember practically everything...it seems as though our brains have developed, as an evolutionary mechanism, a way to protect ourselves from what we see in the dmt altered state...what is it that we see in this state that our brains are protecting us from?

And my elaboration..

Just realized something else: As my little brother pointed out, the brain secretes an opposing Anti-DMT chemical which WIPES YOUR MEMORY of the dream! You dream EVERY NIGHT but can not remember. That has some serious implications! First and foremost, WHY is our brain so intent on making us FORGET this dream world, EVERY NIGHT? Secondly, what if it were REVERSED, meaning, what if we never remembered our WAKING STATE! Every night when we dream, we release a chemical that WIPES OUR MEMORIES of the WAKING STATE, so all that we remember is our DREAMS!? AHHHHHHHHHHH!!(#*(#)*#*  That would mean that essentially, the only state that we perceive as REAL is the state that we REMEMBER..

[avxo]

brain function does not = thinking/being/awareness (you)

Yes it does.

upon death the body loses about 14 grams of weight.

Bullshit.

that weight leaving the body is the energy field that if you.

Why would energy have weight (or, more accurately, mass)? And where would that mass be stored. In other words?

you are an energy field occupying a physical body.

And you are an idiot.

you are not your brain, you are not your thoughts

We are not just our brain, but our quintessence lies in the brain. Not new-age mumbo-jumbo about energy fields and souls that are energy fields with weight.

[Viking11]

brain function does not = thinking/being/awareness (you)

brain function affects thinking/awareness/being (you).

and being/awareness/thinking effects brain function (you).


upon death the body loses about 14 grams of weight.    that weight leaving the body is the energy field that if you.   you are an energy field occupying a physical body. that physical body interacts with you energy field and your energy field interacts with the physical body.

you are not your brain, you are not your thoughts, you are not your emotions or that little voice inside your head.  you are a percieving energy field capable of thought, emotion, and creation.

Pretty good in a nutshell.

[Archer77]

Yes it does.


Bullshit.


Why would energy have weight (or, more accurately, mass)? And where would that mass be stored. In other words?


And you are an idiot.


We are not just our brain, but our quintessence lies in the brain. Not new-age mumbo-jumbo about energy fields and souls that are energy fields with weight.

Pretty good in a nutshell!

[Twaddle]

That's me having a drink to numb the pain from reading so much quasi-scientific, quasi-mystical, quasi-bullshit material in such a short span of time. ERSTLING, enroll in a PhD program in a properly scientific discipline (since you're so smart) and begin to ameliorate your tendency towards the mystical (which is more or less equivalent to a tendency towards emotional, hand-waving non-explanations). You almost sound as bad as Deepak Chopra.

That's not Pellius AKA "Little Sea Turtle".   

[Natural Man]

i dont know what follows death, but having experienced some near death experience -car accident etc- most people who survived unharmed say the last thing you think while being hit by another car out of the blue is "WTF?" And that's...about it. Basically you re just intensely surprised and there s a rush of adrenaline and other complex neurotransmitters shocking you real quick while you automatically open your eyes wide open. I guess someone who gets shot in the head by a sniper doesnt even feel this rush, he s just thinking about what he s going to eat tonite and boom, his thought process stops here.