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Author Topic: Boehner: Ending abortion ‘one of our most fundamental goals this year’  (Read 1263 times)
tonymctones
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« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2013, 10:30:01 AM »

he wants to dictate what the consequences are, abortion for most woman is not easy and that is claiming responsibility.
I never said it was easy, but to think that its not easy for some women is ignorant.
Men, have no rights over woman's bodies, it's quite obvious that this is the arrangement going in.
sorry I forgot to address this in my previous post. There are plenty of ways to achieve equal procreation rights without forcing the woman to carry the baby to term. Give the man a choice of whether or not he wants the baby if he doesnt then he gets to walk away from the fetus just like the mother can do, no child support and he has no parental rights to the child if she keeps it. If he does and she doesnt she can either carry it to term and give it to the father after birth or she pays a monetary sum to the father, somewhat akin to child support I guess.
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Necrosis
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« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2013, 10:34:26 AM »

Good point I guess about abortion being a way of taking responsibility. Its pretty shitty to step up and take responsibility in that manner after youve already created the life but point taken either way.

One could argue however that if you believe that human life is sacred and again this does not have to come from a religious stand point. That once the process has begun(fertilization) that the responsible thing to do would be to nurture that life.

PS all youre morals are based in religion whether you accept it or not is up to you.

I don't think life begins at fertilization, we have to define life, and is all life sacred or just humans, because other species are being wiped out at an alarming rate.

I know my morals aren't based in religion because religion gathered it's morals from humans. Do you think humans had no morals before religion? the book was written by humans, humanity and it's morals predate the bible. Also, I disagree with the morality taught in the bible, so it's hard to imagine I get my morals from it. You are putting to much faith into the importance of religion. Animals show morality, dolphins for example show altruism, sharing, they help injured peers etc.
morality comes from logic and reason, the higher these factors the "better" the morals. That's why we no longer have slaves and soon will not discriminate gays etc. morality is not absolute but evolving just like everything else, everything, absolutely everything evolves.
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Skip8282
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« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2013, 10:35:47 AM »

Im not saying whether or not life is a core religious issue or not. What Im saying is that you dont have to have a religious stand point to believe it is a life.

and b/c of that you can believe that abortions are wrong and it not with religious justification.

Mens rights in the procreation process means nothing to you?

At the very least give the man the right to walk away from the potential child for the same amount of time the woman has.




Because your proposed solution of absolving men of fiscal responsibility in those cases would actually push that responsibility (or may if the woman does not have the means), onto taxpayers.

So no, I'm not thrilled with that.
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Necrosis
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« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2013, 10:36:32 AM »

I never said it was easy, but to think that its not easy for some women is ignorant. sorry I forgot to address this in my previous post. There are plenty of ways to achieve equal procreation rights without forcing the woman to carry the baby to term. Give the man a choice of whether or not he wants the baby if he doesnt then he gets to walk away from the fetus just like the mother can do, no child support and he has no parental rights to the child if she keeps it. If he does and she doesnt she can either carry it to term and give it to the father after birth or she pays a monetary sum to the father, somewhat akin to child support I guess.

I agree with procreation rights to a degree, the woman obviously has a bit more involvement, I mean they can die from birth, I don't think men can. Unless the load exhausts there semen levels and sucks all there essence from the genital chakra.
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tonymctones
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« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2013, 10:47:05 AM »

I don't think life begins at fertilization, we have to define life, and is all life sacred or just humans, because other species are being wiped out at an alarming rate.

I know my morals aren't based in religion because religion gathered it's morals from humans. Do you think humans had no morals before religion? the book was written by humans, humanity and it's morals predate the bible. Also, I disagree with the morality taught in the bible, so it's hard to imagine I get my morals from it. You are putting to much faith into the importance of religion. Animals show morality, dolphins for example show altruism, sharing, they help injured peers etc.
morality comes from logic and reason, the higher these factors the "better" the morals. That's why we no longer have slaves and soon will not discriminate gays etc. morality is not absolute but evolving just like everything else, everything, absolutely everything evolves.
I agree lets define life, those in favor of abortion often believe that the child is not technically alive until the baby is born as if there is some distinction between a baby in the womb and a baby 2 mins later out of the womb. Those in favor of no abortions often believe that the life begins at conception when genetic material from two different individuals comes together to create something that didnt exist prior. I guess we could also use medical technologies like heart beats, brain activity etc.

When do you consider the fetus "alive"?

Ill refrain from the morals debate for the moment as this thread seems like it has the potential for good debate on the topic at hand but Ill come back to it when the topic dies out.
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tonymctones
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« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2013, 11:10:11 AM »




Because your proposed solution of absolving men of fiscal responsibility in those cases would actually push that responsibility (or may if the woman does not have the means), onto taxpayers.

So no, I'm not thrilled with that.
I agree I didnt say it was a great solution but equal procreation rights is a reason against abortion that isnt based in religion.
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bears
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« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2013, 12:44:21 PM »

he is comparing two totally seperate things. One a living being, along with the consequences of murder if it were legal compared to abortion. If murder was legal, many people would die, violence would skyrocket, fear, panic and society as a whole would crumble, there is a reason it carries the harshest of penalties. Abortion offers none of this and a fetus is not a living thing so long as it requires a living host to survive.

again terrible analogy.

Your argument is equally ridiculous. The law assumes the baby would be carried to full term. Also, law is subjective and not all law is sane or warranted. The very act of pregnancy over a period of time indicates intent. It's a sticky subject, but ultimately, it infringes upon the freedoms of a living person in favor of a non-living thing.

why do you think you have the right to tell woman what they can or cannot do with there bodies?

but the law places a tag of "living thing" if the mother intends to carry the baby full term??  LOL!!  

like i said you liberal asshats are all about sticking to the science but your definition of a human being hinges upon the intent of the mother and father.  thats about as unscientific as you can get.  again all i can do is LOL!!!

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Skip8282
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« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2013, 12:52:13 PM »

I agree I didnt say it was a great solution but equal procreation rights is a reason against abortion that isnt based in religion.



Fair enough
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Skip8282
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« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2013, 12:55:14 PM »

but the law places a tag of "living thing" if the mother intends to carry the baby full term??  LOL!! 

like i said you liberal asshats are all about sticking to the science but your definition of a human being hinges upon the intent of the mother and father.  thats about as unscientific as you can get.  again all i can do is LOL!!!






Just because the law is at odds with itself, doesn't mean people are inconsistent.  I don't agree that people should be charged for murder when it comes to a fetus.

Nothing I can do about if some is charged that way though.

You are capable of understanding something that basic?
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