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Author Topic: Jesus Christ came to die for, and thus save us from, our sins  (Read 8956 times)
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« Reply #125 on: July 30, 2013, 01:31:25 PM »

Loco is not Rhino.
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« Reply #126 on: July 31, 2013, 05:39:03 AM »

That's the attitude you've taken, do whatever you want or desire.

I don't do whatever 'works' to satisfy others or myself, rather I would do whatever God commands.

And I don't believe in luck or chance either, only God's decree and order.

That's the difference between Christianity/Christians and Islam/Muslims right there.

Christians serve the will of God.
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« Reply #127 on: July 31, 2013, 10:07:59 AM »

If you did you would be a Muslim because that is submitting your will to God's.

Instead every Christian follows his desires and argues that he is already saved.
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« Reply #128 on: July 31, 2013, 10:31:24 AM »

If you did you would be a Muslim because that is submitting your will to God's.

Instead every Christian follows his desires and argues that he is already saved.

Christians follow Jesus Christ.
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« Reply #129 on: July 31, 2013, 10:34:51 AM »

Because you have a closed mind with a radical view. You are the people doing damage to Islam.

Not everyone puts on blinders and has tunnel vision. Willfully blind!!!

There is more than one road to Heaven and God but you will never understand that Sad
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« Reply #130 on: July 31, 2013, 10:41:31 AM »

Because you have a closed mind with a radical view. You are the people doing damage to Islam.

Not everyone puts on blinders and has tunnel vision. Willfully blind!!!

There is more than one road to Heaven and God but you will never understand that Sad

Yup, not fornicating and not getting drunk are radical ideas. Obeying God is a radical idea too. But hey you are saved and you can continue your 'modern way of life' because that's what everyone is doing and you should continue doing too. Note my sarcasm.

You are an arrogant person who did not want to change himself and hate Islam because it commands you to good and commands you to change to the better which you do not want to do. You are comfortable in your disobedience of God. Arrogant that is all. You are finding excuses for yourself and nothing more. You can blabber all day long about how radical this, islam that, but the bottom line is it's your own self-defense mechanism of your own arrogance covering yourself up. Instead you excuse yourself now by claiming you are 'saved' by being a christian where you continue to do what you were already doing. All you have is wishful thinking.

The only one with blinders on is yourself. There is only one way to heaven and that is through God's mercy and obedience to God, not disobedience and arrogance. Certainly not idolatry.

I guess you will find your way to God through idolatry too now? Worshipping a human being. That's what some idolators claim, they use idols because it brings them 'closer to God'. You have tried to promote everything opposite of Islam, even hinduism who are polytheistic pantheists.
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« Reply #131 on: July 31, 2013, 10:48:42 AM »

If you did you would be a Muslim because that is submitting your will to God's.

Instead every Christian follows his desires and argues that he is already saved.

Christians have served the will of God long before Muslims existed....Christians still serve the will of God today.  

This morning on my way to work I again prayed that I would represent Jesus Christ and that his will be done in my life and that I not be a hindrance to his will in anyway.
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« Reply #132 on: July 31, 2013, 10:52:54 AM »

Muslims existed before Jesus (pbuh) and Christians came after Jesus (pbuh), Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Chrsitianity started after Jesus (pbuh). Muslims before Jesus? They are called prophets and messengers of God. Because to be a Muslim is literally to submit your will to God and obey God. Not to be of a certain race or a certain ethnicity or a certain part of history.

What Christians do is claim to be following God and claim to be following Jesus (pbuh) but do you really? Everyone follows whatever you want and not merely just because of following desires but because you have little to follow? Paul did away with the law of God? So which law do you follow?

As already mentioned in past discussions, the early church fathers debated whether to celebrate pagan feasts or jewish feasts. Such as easter vs pass over.

From the beginning we are thought ten commandments in Sunday school, yet there aren't JUST ten commandments. There are hundreds of commandments.

The excuse that Christians make that they are saved is merely just that an excuse to do whatever you want. So if one person is more inclined in faith they may do more good, but the bottom line is you are just 'saved'.
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« Reply #133 on: July 31, 2013, 10:55:25 AM »

Muslims existed before Jesus (pbuh) and Christians came after Jesus (pbuh), Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Chrsitianity started after Jesus (pbuh). Muslims before Jesus? They are called prophets and messengers of God. Because to be a Muslim is to submit your will to God and obey God.

What Christians do is claim to be following God and claim to be following Jesus (pbuh) but do you really? Everyone follows whatever you want and not merely just because of following desires but because you have little to follow? Paul did away with the law of God? So which law do you follow?

From the beginning we are thought ten commandments in Sunday school, yet there aren't JUST ten commandments. There are hundreds of commandments.

The excuse that Christians make that they are saved is merely just that an excuse to do whatever you want. So if one person is more inclined in faith they may do more good, but the bottom line is you are just 'saved'.

Give it up ahmed, you are completely wrong and I'm bored with ya.  Moving on.

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« Reply #134 on: July 31, 2013, 11:04:12 AM »

I used to say everything ahmed is saying anyway. So it's not news to me. I me I was saying it! Therin lies the problem. You either see it and everthing that is wrong... Or you don't.
And... When I used to talk like ahmed... Ppl were sick of hearing it. Even other so called Muslims. Anyway, anyone that has been on this board already knows what ahmed will say lol
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« Reply #135 on: July 31, 2013, 11:34:07 AM »

I used to say everything ahmed is saying anyway. So it's not news to me. I me I was saying it! Therin lies the problem. You either see it and everthing that is wrong... Or you don't.
And... When I used to talk like ahmed... Ppl were sick of hearing it. Even other so called Muslims. Anyway, anyone that has been on this board already knows what ahmed will say lol

Yes, over the course of a year I have read books on Islam, a lot of the Quran, spoken with various Muslims online, studied the arguments presented and I pretty much know a lot that will be said before it is actually said now.  Unless of course a verse of biblical scripture is objected to randomly...I can't anticipate that.  

It's taken some time to learn, but now most of Islam's objections are becoming fairly easy to anticipate now.  Early on it wasn't....it was unfamiliar territory to me.  I had learning to do (I'll always be learning though).  Problem some folks have with me is that when they present me with an objection I haven't seen before I'll read a book or two to understand the objection and then respond to it.   I don't always have an answer at my fingertips, but you can believe I'm thinking about it and attempting to understand it fully.   I don't say any of this to be arrogant either, it's just who I am.  I defend my faith because we're supposed to....not to win some silly argument but to win others for Christ.....that's my motivation.  

For example, avxo and I began discussing various topics  a few weeks back.  He replied and shortly thereafter my work became crazy for over a week and then my entire family became sick for another 2 weeks (myself included).  I haven't forgotten his reply though and I intend to respond now that work has calmed and we're all feeling better.   I don't have delusions of mass converting people to Christ LOL, but often times I respond for the sake of others that may be reading that haven't made a choice.

I don't respond much to ahmed anymore because it's all a broken record to me now or like talkin with a brickwall.  I have presented well-reasoned arguments repeatedly and it never makes an ounce of difference....not one iota of difference LOL.  I'm certainly not the only Getbigger who has tried either.  ahmed has his opinions and that's it.....there is nothing else....he's "never wrong".

So today I may respond to ahmed only for the sake of others reading his stuff so that they aren't misled.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think ahmed has a good heart, but he also has a very skewed perception of Christianity and he doesn't play well with others.....either you're with him or you're against him....there is no middle ground.   A man like that can't be reasoned with, so I don't try anymore.  Took me some time to learn that too.  


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« Reply #136 on: July 31, 2013, 11:36:28 AM »

Muslims existed before Jesus (pbuh) and Christians came after Jesus (pbuh), Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Chrsitianity started after Jesus (pbuh). Muslims before Jesus? They are called prophets and messengers of God. Because to be a Muslim is literally to submit your will to God and obey God. Not to be of a certain race or a certain ethnicity or a certain part of history.

What Christians do is claim to be following God and claim to be following Jesus (pbuh) but do you really? Everyone follows whatever you want and not merely just because of following desires but because you have little to follow? Paul did away with the law of God? So which law do you follow?

As already mentioned in past discussions, the early church fathers debated whether to celebrate pagan feasts or jewish feasts. Such as easter vs pass over.

From the beginning we are thought ten commandments in Sunday school, yet there aren't JUST ten commandments. There are hundreds of commandments.

The excuse that Christians make that they are saved is merely just that an excuse to do whatever you want. So if one person is more inclined in faith they may do more good, but the bottom line is you are just 'saved'.

Jesus said that he existed before Abraham.  So Jesus existed long before Muslims.  Oh, and Judaism and Christianity existed long before Muslim plagiarism.
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« Reply #137 on: July 31, 2013, 12:36:40 PM »

I used to say everything ahmed is saying anyway. So it's not news to me. I me I was saying it! Therin lies the problem. You either see it and everthing that is wrong... Or you don't.
And... When I used to talk like ahmed... Ppl were sick of hearing it. Even other so called Muslims. Anyway, anyone that has been on this board already knows what ahmed will say lol

So you want to please others not God. Good for you.
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« Reply #138 on: July 31, 2013, 12:39:42 PM »

...

So today I may respond to ahmed only for the sake of others reading his stuff so that they aren't misled.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think ahmed has a good heart, but he also has a very skewed perception of Christianity and he doesn't play well with others.....either you're with him or you're against him....there is no middle ground.   A man like that can't be reasoned with, so I don't try anymore.  Took me some time to learn that too.  

The only ones truly being misled and misleading others are those who worship a human being and not God. Claiming to be 'saved' while they do whatever their desires command rather than what God commands.
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« Reply #139 on: July 31, 2013, 12:42:06 PM »

The only ones truly being misled and misleading others are those who worship a human being and not God. Claiming to be 'saved' while they do whatever their desires command rather than what God commands.

I spit out your bait.
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« Reply #140 on: July 31, 2013, 12:45:16 PM »

Note the word: plagiarism. I still love Islam but plagiarism is still plagiarism. If Islam is for you then more power to you. But to deny the source is denail. And I know your response. Because I uses to argue the response to those that say Plagiarism. I know all the answers :/
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« Reply #141 on: July 31, 2013, 12:47:27 PM »

Islam didn't plagiarize anything, it affirms what was and continues to command what God commanded.

Plagiarizing would mean copy pasting things and claiming another God. For example sikhism. Which copy pastes ideas from Islam and Hinduism, denies the scriptures, denies the angels, denies the prophets and messengers of God, heaven/hell and other factors while claiming it is it's own unique religion while denying it ever copied anything from anyone. 'So it magically just came about' forget all those prophets and messengers before.

Islam doesn't suddenly bring something new, on the contrary, it affirms what was from Adam (pbuh) to Muhammad (pbuh).

The chain is merely broken by Jews who out of arrogance and disobedience of God didn't accept Jesus (pbuh) because they were in the wrong and didn't want to change themselves. Even when Islam came, they recognized the message being from God but out of arrogance and pride didn't accept it.

Christians on the other hand are misguided by themselves by not following God's commandments and instead whatever their desires want. Paul and the church replaced God's law with man made laws.

So when confronted with Islam which affirms what was and continues what is, you rebel. When commanded to obey God you rebel because you want to continue doing what you are doing and justify yourself claiming you are already 'saved'.

We Muslims are not to fornicate, this is to stay forever. We do not change our religion just because the 'times' or 'people dictate what their desires want. We avoid it although of course there are sinners amongst Muslims who do it. However in Christianity you can still be a 'good christian' and fornicate and do all the wrongs that are forbidden and still be 'saved'. It's a devil's trick at best. You can party, you can get drunk, you can have girlfriends, and it's all jolly because you are 'saved'. You shape your religion based on your desires.

Muslims try to emulate the prophets and messengers of God in practice, while Christians only at most give lip service.

Muslim women are closer to Mary (pbuh) rather than Christian women. In belief, in practice, in behaviour and conduct. Do Christian women dress or behave like Mary (pbuh)? No they follow what their desires and the times dictate.

Muslim men are also far closer to all the prophets of God rather than the Christian men. For example something as minute as being clean shaven that was popularized by the Romans. Copts and others do not shave. Why is it for example catholic priests shave their faces? Why do priests not marry? Even though God commanded mankind to procreate. It may be tiny issues I am bringing about and tiny divergences but in the long term you are in fact far away from the original commandments of God in every aspect small and major simply because you are guided by your desires and what people want.

So who are you trying to emulate? Certainly not Jesus (pbuh) except in lip service and selectively certain elements. You take some parts of the scripture and you leave others out of convenience.
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« Reply #142 on: July 31, 2013, 01:20:23 PM »

I have Hindu friends and Sikh friends also. I get along just fine. You are the problem. You just hate anyone that doesn't think the same way you do. You have a lot of hate. So many English died to defeat Hitller. And common wealth countries like India and Canada. The Sikhs are seen as great warriors and can even wear a turban as part of their uniform. There are radicals in all religions and no one likes you. You are a little hitler in my book. Shame. After so many died to defeat ppl like you Sad
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« Reply #143 on: July 31, 2013, 01:26:22 PM »

I have Hindu friends and Sikh friends also. I get along just fine. You are the problem. You just hate anyone that doesn't think the same way you do. You have a lot of hate. So many English died to defeat Hitller. And common wealth countries like India and Canada. The Sikhs are seen as great warriors and can even wear a turban as part of their uniform. There are radicals in all religions and no one likes you. You are a little hitler in my book. Shame. After so many died to defeat ppl like you Sad

You are so defensive in terms of covering up your own faults, that's your problem. It's fascinating because you keep boasting about the corrupt nature of yourself and those around you to try to discredit Islam, but all you are doing is discrediting yourself.

What you have done is out of arrogance not change yourself and when you could not change islam to suit your own corrupt soul and desires out of hatered you are totally opposed to islam. You try to pull off smoke and mirrors to use excuses and flaunt words like radical, talibal, 'you', etc... but I know and you know deep inside you are just covering up your own faults while trying to justify yourself pointing fingers at others. You now found a way to fool yourself and justify doing what you're doing as a Christian because you are 'saved'.

I have a lot of non-muslim friends and family. Remember not everyone in my family has become Muslim. It's not about getting along. I get a long fine with everyone. It's about upholding the truth. No one is forcing you to be good, rather correcting you for your own sake where you are wrong. Being Muslim is submitting your will to God, not submitting to your desires or men.

You will be held accountable on the day of judgement for yourself and be punished accordingly to what you have done and are doing. You can continue to fool yourself that you are 'saved' and guaranteed heaven.

"No one likes you". I am not talking here to be liked. I don't need you to like me or approve of me. If my action is good and pleases God is more important than to please mankind. Would Jesus (pbuh) appease the disbelievers? He had how many followers amongst the Jews? 12 devoted companions and how many others that you could count on your hands. Would Abraham appease the disbelievers by worshipping idols with them, no he destroyed the idols in disobedience to his father? Muhammad (pbuh) was offered kingship, women, wealth but he refused it all to deliver the message of God while he himself and his companions were all subjected to oppression.
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« Reply #144 on: July 31, 2013, 03:05:00 PM »

Enough all ready. Do they have rubber rooms in England? Lol. I used to be a person that would yell : ''allahu akbar'' with my fist in the air and chant ''I love death... The way they love life!!!''' I am not going back. No way in hell. Anyway... As salamu alyakum... As we say. But I will not go back. Salam. Peace to all Smiley wheather hindu sikh or Muslim and Christian Smiley I found Jesus now and am happy Smiley
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« Reply #145 on: August 03, 2013, 08:26:11 PM »

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« Reply #146 on: October 17, 2013, 04:50:54 PM »

Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 11:50-52
50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”
51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation,
52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.

Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
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« Reply #147 on: October 18, 2013, 05:49:54 AM »

Matthew 16:13-20

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”

14 “Well,” they replied, “some say John the Baptist, some say Elijah, and others say Jeremiah or one of the other prophets.”

15 Then he asked them, “But who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “You are blessed, Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being.
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« Reply #148 on: October 18, 2013, 06:40:39 AM »

Here's all of Luke 24 from the NIRV version for the sake of context that illustrates that Jesus was identified as prophet by some.  Many didn't know what to make of Jesus, but they knew he was special and they knew of Moses, Elijah, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah and immediately placed Jesus within their ranks.  Then Jesus demonstrated more and more who exactly he was, that he was far, far more than a mere prophet.  

Prophets alone are not worthy of worship nor are they able to forgive sins or empower others to forgive sins.  Prophets also don't claim to be the object of their prophecy or the fulfillment of prophecy either.  Prophets also don't have glorified bodies that allow them to appear and reappear at will.  Jesus is absolutely prophetic (given that he is divine), but he's also the object of prophecy, the fulfillment of prophecy, the Messiah, the risen Lord and the Son of God who is worthy of worship and able to forgive sin.  

Just need that all-important context around the verse; in fact, you can find the majority of qualities of Jesus I mentioned represented in the same chapter the verse was pulled from.

Luke 24
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

Jesus Rises From the Dead
24 It was very early in the morning on the first day of the week. The women took the spices they had prepared. Then they went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from it. 3 When they entered the tomb, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 They were wondering about this.

Suddenly two men in clothes as bright as lightning stood beside them. 5 The women were terrified. They bowed down with their faces to the ground.

Then the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 Jesus is not here! He has risen! Remember how he told you he would rise. It was while he was still with you in Galilee. 7 He said, ‘The Son of Man must be handed over to sinful people. He must be nailed to a cross. On the third day he will rise from the dead.’”

8 Then the women remembered Jesus’ words.

9 They came back from the tomb. They told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them were the ones who told the apostles. 11 But the apostles did not believe the women. Their words didn’t make any sense to them.

12 But Peter got up and ran to the tomb. He bent over and saw the strips of linen lying by themselves. Then he went away, wondering what had happened.

On the Road to Emmaus
13 That same day two of Jesus’ followers were going to a village called Emmaus. It was about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened.

15 As they talked about those things, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them. 16 But God kept them from recognizing him.

17 Jesus asked them, “What are you talking about as you walk along?”

They stood still, and their faces were sad. 18 One of them was named Cleopas. He said to Jesus, “You must be a visitor to Jerusalem. If you lived there, you would know the things that have happened there in the last few days.”

19 “What things?” Jesus asked.

“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet. He was powerful in what he said and did in the eyes of God and all of the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed Jesus over to be sentenced to death. They nailed him to a cross. 21 But we had hoped that he was the one who was going to set Israel free. Also, it is the third day since all this happened.

22 “Some of our women amazed us too. Early this morning they went to the tomb. 23 But they didn’t find his body. So they came and told us what they had seen. They saw angels, who said Jesus was alive. 24 Then some of our friends went to the tomb. They saw it was empty, just as the women had said. They didn’t see Jesus’ body there.”

25 Jesus said to them, “How foolish you are! How long it takes you to believe all that the prophets said! 26 Didn’t the Christ have to suffer these things and then receive his glory?”

27 Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures. He began with Moses and all the Prophets.

28 The two men approached the village where they were going. Jesus acted as if he were going farther. 29 But they tried hard to keep him from leaving. They said, “Stay with us. It is nearly evening. The day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

30 He joined them at the table. Then he took bread and gave thanks. He broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. But then he disappeared from their sight.

32 They said to each other, “He talked with us on the road. He opened the Scriptures to us. Weren’t our hearts burning inside us during that time?”

33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them. They were all gathered together. 34 They were saying, “It’s true! The Lord has risen! He has appeared to Simon!” 35 Then the two of them told what had happened to them on the way. They told how they had recognized Jesus when he broke the bread.

Jesus Appears to the Disciples
36 The disciples were still talking about this when Jesus himself suddenly stood among them. He said, “May peace be with you!”

37 They were surprised and terrified. They thought they were seeing a ghost.

38 Jesus said to them, “Why are you troubled? Why do you have doubts in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is really I! Touch me and see. A ghost does not have a body or bones. But you can see that I do.”

40 After he said that, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 But they still did not believe it. They were amazed and filled with joy.

So Jesus asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?”

42 They gave him a piece of cooked fish. 43 He took it and ate it in front of them.

44 Jesus said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you. Everything written about me must happen. Everything written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms must come true.”

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written. The Christ will suffer. He will rise from the dead on the third day. 47 His followers will preach in his name. They will tell others to turn away from their sins and be forgiven. People from every nation will hear it, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You have seen these things with your own eyes.

49 “I am going to send you what my Father has promised. But for now, stay in the city. Stay there until you have received power from heaven.”

Jesus Is Taken Up Into Heaven
50 Jesus led his disciples out to the area near Bethany. Then he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them. He was taken up into heaven.

52 Then they worshiped him. With great joy, they returned to Jerusalem. 53 Every day they went to the temple, praising God.

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« Reply #149 on: October 20, 2013, 08:22:51 AM »

The above hardly helps you prove Jesus as 'god', in fact quite the opposite.
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