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Author Topic: Jesus Christ came to die for, and thus save us from, our sins  (Read 8521 times)
loco
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« on: February 06, 2013, 11:48:39 AM »

Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 11:50-52
50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”
51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation,
52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.

Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
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loco
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 11:56:13 AM »

Acts 4:12
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

1 Peter 2:24
who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

John 14:6-8
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 01:24:02 PM »

Guy. Do you think copy pasting the same stuff over and over again is suddenly going to make it true or make anyone believe in what you believe? We already debated a thousand times and crushed your copy pasting of verses. Jesus is not God.

Every single one of the verses was already tackled, what makes you think you are bringing anything new to the table? For every verse you post there is an opposing or contradicting verse in the bible either in the old or new testament.

Each time the verses were done for, you moved onto other verses, suddenly you think people forget and its okay to copy paste it all over  again lol. Feel free, but you're not convincing anyone with that Smiley

Kind of how long ago you registered and started posting in this section the 'we, our' etc... and when it was shown you were even ignorant of it's true meaning, you went onto other verses, ad nauseum.

Quote
9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

lol oh Paul... so whether we are awake or asleep we may live together with him? What?
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loco
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 01:35:51 PM »

Jesus is not God.

Not the topic of this thread.  There is already another thread for that:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=448596.0

Please do not spam and derail my thread!
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 01:46:39 PM »

I'm not derailing. You're just not making much sense as usual, I'm unconvinced. Starting a new thread will not make it suddenly true. You're recycling the same verses again and again and continently ignoring the ones that do not please you.

By the way Jesus was tempted by the devil. Why do you not talk about that incident a lot?

att 21:10-11 Who is this?" So the multitudes said, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth of Galilee."

Luke 7:16 “Then fear came upon all, and they glorified God, saying, "A great prophet has risen up among us"; and, "God has visited His people."

In Luke 24:19 Peter is recorded saying “And He said to them, "What things?" So they said to Him, "The things concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a Prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people,

John 6:14 “Then those men, when they had seen the sign that Jesus did, said, "This is truly the Prophet who is to come into the world."

Matt 14:5 “ they counted him as a prophet.”

Matt 21:46 “ they took Him for a prophet.”

Matt 13:57 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house."
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loco
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 01:49:01 PM »

I'm not derailing. You're just not making much sense as usual, I'm unconvinced. Starting a new thread will not make it suddenly true. You're recycling the same verses again and again and continently ignoring the ones that do not please you.

Not the same verses, not the same topic.  Obviously you have not even read what I have posted.    Roll Eyes

You're unconvinced?  Really?  Okay.  Moving on.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 01:50:57 PM »

Okay well I can copy paste verses too ya know

Matt 21:10-11
Who is this?" So the multitudes said, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth of Galilee."

Luke 7:16
“Then fear came upon all, and they glorified God, saying, "A great prophet has risen up among us"; and, "God has visited His people."

In Luke 24:19
Peter is recorded saying “And He said to them, "What things?" So they said to Him, "The things concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a Prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people,

John 6:14
“Then those men, when they had seen the sign that Jesus did, said, "This is truly the Prophet who is to come into the world."

Matt 14:5
“ they counted him as a prophet.”

Matt 21:46
“ they took Him for a prophet.”

Matt 13:57
Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house."
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 01:52:40 PM »

By the way Jesus was tempted by the devil. Why do you not talk about that incident a lot?

Why not die for the devil who is all sin? To save the devil from sin? I'm just being comical but lets take an ACTUAL look at the story and see how it does not fit in your trinity story what so ever.


THIS though is quite perplexing to your trinity story.

Matthew 4:1-11

4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.”

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
    and they will lift you up in their hands,
    so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[c]”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]”

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”

11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

This quite clearly illustrates what 'son of God' is. Not God at all.

Hardcore trinitarian christians rarely talk about other verses of the bible but focus on picking the same missionary style repeatable verses that dazzle the ignorant who never opened a bible for themselves.
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loco
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 01:59:47 PM »

it does not fit in your trinity story what so ever.

Not the topic of this thread.  There is already another thread for that:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=448596.0

Please do not spam and derail my thread!
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 02:07:48 PM »

So you failed three topics from many different angles? What makes you think you will succeed in this one?

Jesus was tempted by the devil. This I find very interesting. Jesus was offered the whole world? Isn't that just fascinating? Or being asked to commit suicide by the devil and that if he is truly the son of God (God's messenger) that God would save him anyway?

Doesn't that just sound very very interesting. Instead Jesus quotes do not tempt God by doing stupid things and then saying God will save you anyway if you do a stupid thing such as killing yourself. Instead Jesus chose faith in God and disobeys the devil despite the suffering he endures as a prophet of God as many have from their own people as we know in the past.

Jesus is stopping himself from sinning. That's how he as a prophet instructs us all. To SAVE yourself from sin by avoiding it.

You're instead heedlessly falling for the devil's tricks. Instead you proclaim in believing something totally unjust and non-sensical. A single human being who 'happens' to be 'god' lets himself die (commits suicide) supposedly on a cross and as a result apparently saves all mankind and gives them 'salvation' by commiting suicide on a cross.

Wait what?
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loco
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 02:17:33 PM »

Moving on...

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 02:21:36 PM »

hahahahahahaahahah loco in his own world.

Sooo Jesus (peace be upon him) was asked to commit suicide by the devil if he is truly of God that he would be saved by God. Instead Jesus said don't tempt God (as many ppl in the past have, many verses to post on that). Jesus refused to commit suicide (die)!

Also offered the world if he were to give up what he's doing, but instead chose to continue God's work.

Imagine.. lol.. if Jesus was 'god', and he is being asked, tempted and offered by his OWN creation (the devil) the world (that he created).

Hilarious.
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loco
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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2013, 02:36:58 PM »

John 7:30
At this they tried to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him, because his hour had not yet come.

John 8:20
He spoke these words while teaching in the temple courts near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his hour had not yet come.

John 10:17-18
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.
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bigbobs
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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 02:38:33 PM »

I sense a pattern here - Loco pastes random verses, Ahmed questions them, Loco isn't able to defend his position, so he goes "moving on..." and pastes even more meaningless verses lol.  Very productive thread by loco  Roll Eyes
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bigbobs
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2013, 02:41:37 PM »

Re: the topic of the thread, my questions are:

1)  If Jesus really did sacrifice himself for our sins, why do we have to believe that he died for our sins in order to actually be forgiven?  There's really no sacrifice in that.  I'll die for your sins so that you may be forgiven but if you don't believe that I'm dying for your sins you won't be forgiven.   Roll Eyes

2)  Why does God almighty need to sacrifice someone (or himself) in order to forgive us?  If God wants to forgive our sins he can do it without any sacrifice.  Which entity created this mysterious law that God can not forgive us unless one is sacrificed for our sins?

For these reasons "dying for our sins" makes absolutely no sense to me.

Before loco tries to reply, I'll save his typing and post what he will say lol:


Moving on...

Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
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loco
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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2013, 02:42:15 PM »

I sense a pattern here - Loco pastes random verses, Ahmed questions them, Loco isn't able to defend his position, so he goes "moving on..." and pastes even more meaningless verses lol.  Very productive thread by loco  Roll Eyes

Neither you nor ahmed has addressed a single verse that I have posted in this thread.  All ahmed has done is spam and try to derail my thread.   Roll Eyes

Let me know when you are ready to have a real discussion.
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bigbobs
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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2013, 02:43:31 PM »

Neither you nor ahmed has addressed a single verse that I have posted in this thread.  All ahmed has done is spam and try to derail my thread.   Roll Eyes

Let me know when you are ready to have a real discussion.

tbh I didn't even read your quotes and don't feel any motivation to either, because as usual you spam a bunch of verses and don't offer any explanation of them.  I did however, reply with my thoughts based on the topic of the thread itself.
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loco
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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2013, 02:44:29 PM »

Re: the topic of the thread, my questions are:

1)  If Jesus really did sacrifice himself for our sins, why do we have to believe that he died for our sins in order to actually be forgiven?  There's really no sacrifice in that.  I'll die for your sins so that you may be forgiven but if you don't believe that I'm dying for your sins you won't be forgiven.   Roll Eyes

2)  Why does God almighty need to sacrifice someone (or himself) in order to forgive us?  If God wants to forgive our sins he can do it without any sacrifice.  Which entity created this mysterious law that God can not forgive us unless one is sacrificed for our sins?

For these reasons "dying for our sins" makes absolutely no sense to me.

Before loco tries to reply, I'll save his typing and post what he will say lol:


Moving on...

Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.


You seem to have a problem not with what I believe, but rather with what the Bible says.
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2013, 02:44:48 PM »

I sense a pattern here - Loco pastes random verses, Ahmed questions them, Loco isn't able to defend his position, so he goes "moving on..." and pastes even more meaningless verses lol.  Very productive thread by loco  Roll Eyes

Pretty arrogant to assume that the posted verses are for you and ahmed.  More than you and ahmed read this board.
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loco
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2013, 02:45:22 PM »

I didn't even read your quotes and don't feel any motivation to either

 Roll Eyes

Then why are you even here?
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2013, 02:45:34 PM »

I sense a pattern here - Loco pastes random verses, Ahmed questions them, Loco isn't able to defend his position, so he goes "moving on..." and pastes even more meaningless verses lol.  Very productive thread by loco  Roll Eyes

I know maybe we should help him lol, it might convince us by copy pasting it for him lol.


Moving on...

Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
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loco
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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 02:46:23 PM »

Pretty arrogant to assume that the posted verses are for you and ahmed.  More than you and ahmed read this board.

Exactly!   Smiley
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2013, 02:47:28 PM »

You seem to have a problem not with what I believe, but rather with what the Bible says.

Biggest IRONY of them all.

You seem to copy paste ONLY the verses that SUIT you and what you are trying to preach and absolutely never dwell on the verses that totally oppose what you believe and are preaching. Selective 'truth' or rather not truth at all.

Case in point the verses about Jesus confirming he is a human being .. oh i know "jesus is god and man at the same time" says your wishful thinking.

And the many verses that point out Jesus was a prophet, and a rabbi, and so on. Confirmed by others and himself. Unlike your elusive loose few that supposedly allure to Jesus supposedly being 'god'.

Or how about the little devil story that I posted? Why waste time on verses that prove Jesus is not God right?

And as if that's not bad enough you copy paste the same stuf over and over again.

Moving on...
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loco
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2013, 02:49:17 PM »

I know maybe we should help him lol, it might convince us by copy pasting it for him lol.


Moving on...

Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.


Thank you!  Next time, will you please bold the book, chapter and verse for me too.    Grin

I see many posts here from both a_ahmed and bigbobs, but not a single one addresses not even one Bible verse that I have posted in this thread.   Roll Eyes
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loco
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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2013, 02:52:11 PM »

Biggest IRONY of them all.

You seem to copy paste ONLY the verses that SUIT you and what you are trying to preach and absolutely never dwell on the verses that totally oppose what you believe and are preaching. Selective 'truth' or rather not truth at all.

Case in point the verses about Jesus confirming he is a human being .. oh i know "jesus is god and man at the same time" says your wishful thinking.

And the many verses that point out Jesus was a prophet, and a rabbi, and so on. Confirmed by others and himself. Unlike your elusive loose few that supposedly allure to Jesus supposedly being 'god'.

Or how about the little devil story that I posted? Why waste time on verses that prove Jesus is not God right?

And as if that's not bad enough you copy paste the same stuf over and over again.

Moving on...

Not the topic of this thread.  There is already another thread for that:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=448596.0

Please do not spam and derail my thread!
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