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Author Topic: Mentzer says...  (Read 4342 times)
Mr Nobody
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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2013, 05:15:22 PM »

Mentzer probably wishes he hadn't gone all heavy intensity so he could still be around
1980 fucked with his mind, lost his dad, his girl and lost the Mr O so you take all of that who wouldn't go crazy?
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« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2013, 05:26:45 PM »

lots of people have tragadies in their lives, most of them cope with the losses and few go crazey
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« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2013, 05:35:27 PM »

that as one grows progressively bigger and stronger that one must train less (less often and with less volume) in order to continually grow bigger and stronger

has anyone here applied this concept for themselves and experienced what Mentzer says?

listen to him here @ 4:08-7:10 and especially from 5:55-6:27

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5-nStvay0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5-nStvay0</a>

Even though I never trained using Mentzer'z methods going by my personal experience I think hes right. Recently I've been feeling really drained after my workouts and even had weights on a few lifts drop. And all this mind you still using a test booster (actual testosterone  Grin) so when I used to hear people say only guys on steroids can train for hours on end I can now see that it's just not true.

Mike goes into a few things that you should do in order to compensate and I think one of that he leaves out is to simply increase doses....I'm sure that's what he'd do after dropping an exercise, taking an extra rest day etc. did not work anymore.
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« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2013, 06:54:06 PM »

what do you mean by "more solid progress"?

muscle size increase?

training load increase?
ive been a gym kamikaze for years, do or die attitude, at any cost. so now cheating bouncing etc are out. whats the point of training so hard for 3 month, get injuried, stop training for one month and start from zero at the begining of the fifh month. gym are full of guy like that, making progress and getting injuried. i want year round progress. so i take my time, i periodize my Training.   the extra rep on bench with the bar bouncing and the left arm locked five second after the right is useless,    the extra rep on  deadlift with a shaky lockout is useless.    the extrA rep on squat which looks like a good morning is useless.     maybe you look like true iron warior, but after few year you spend more time on recovering from injury than on efficient training.
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« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2013, 06:57:23 PM »

More weight+ good form + year round training = progress
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« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2013, 06:58:22 PM »

The article Donny posted is one of the best I have read on natural bodybuilding. This is truly the stuff that you learn after many years of consistent, hard, and PRODUCTIVE training. The article is long but I recommend reading the whole thing not just the main bullet points.
If you are not making progress in the gym and in the mirror, read, read, and re-read that article.
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« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2013, 08:00:33 AM »

1980 fucked with his mind, lost his dad, his girl and lost the Mr O so you take all of that who wouldn't go crazy?

He lost his mind from abusing amphetamines. He wrote that he knew of the mental dangers of amphetamine use but he was to smart to fall for that trap. He also wrote that he was scared what steroids did to his mind too. When using steroids you feel confident, aggressive, and have a sense of well being. When you stop using you feel timid, nervous and depressed. Combine that with the known mental turmoil of amphetamines you have a plan for disaster.
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« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2013, 08:08:46 AM »

More weight+ good form + year round training = progress

Bill Pearl would agree with you. He wrote in effect that what's the use of training so hard that you burn out quick and need to stop training all the time. If you train so hard all the time then training will become so hellish you won't be able to continue. Runners, Olympic lifters and power lifters don't red line the tach so to speak every time they train. Why should a bodybuilder?
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« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2013, 08:17:06 AM »

Bill Pearl would agree with you. He wrote in effect that what's the use of training so hard that you burn out quick and need to stop training all the time. If you train so hard all the time then training will become so hellish you won't be able to continue. Runners, Olympic lifters and power lifters don't red line the tach so to speak every time they train. Why should a bodybuilder?
yes ...you want to look forward to your next workout and not burned out and chronic injuries.
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« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2013, 08:28:00 AM »

He lost his mind from abusing amphetamines. He wrote that he knew of the mental dangers of amphetamine use but he was to smart to fall for that trap. He also wrote that he was scared what steroids did to his mind too. When using steroids you feel confident, aggressive, and have a sense of well being. When you stop using you feel timid, nervous and depressed. Combine that with the known mental turmoil of amphetamines you have a plan for disaster.
Good point and the other factors as well drove him over the edge, strange that Ray died the next day as well.
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« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2013, 08:39:02 AM »

He lost his mind from abusing amphetamines. He wrote that he knew of the mental dangers of amphetamine use but he was to smart to fall for that trap. He also wrote that he was scared what steroids did to his mind too. When using steroids you feel confident, aggressive, and have a sense of well being. When you stop using you feel timid, nervous and depressed. Combine that with the known mental turmoil of amphetamines you have a plan for disaster.

Everyone will react differently to any substance. I actually felt better coming off steroids...happier.


EDIT: Oh God I felt really tired the first few weeks though now that I remember.
 
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« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2013, 09:24:22 AM »

Bill Pearl would agree with you. He wrote in effect that what's the use of training so hard that you burn out quick and need to stop training all the time. If you train so hard all the time then training will become so hellish you won't be able to continue. Runners, Olympic lifters and power lifters don't red line the tach so to speak every time they train. Why should a bodybuilder?
 the burnout...in the past i used to dl and squat hard every week, burn out quickly, sometime injury. legs have good recovery capacity, your lower back is the weak link.  an injury is at least 4 week to recover, i remember a major lower back burnout of 6 week, i was unable to squat or dl heavy. i wasnt injuried but my lumbar were fried although my legs were ok.  a natural should avoid burn out. even if youre repin 400 on squat sometine a light maintenance workout like 5 set of 5 with 275 wil be more benefic than trying to rep 400 with a tired lower back.
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« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2013, 11:31:11 AM »

 the burnout...in the past i used to dl and squat hard every week, burn out quickly, sometime injury. legs have good recovery capacity, your lower back is the weak link.  an injury is at least 4 week to recover, i remember a major lower back burnout of 6 week, i was unable to squat or dl heavy. i wasnt injuried but my lumbar were fried although my legs were ok.  a natural should avoid burn out. even if youre repin 400 on squat sometine a light maintenance workout like 5 set of 5 with 275 wil be more benefic than trying to rep 400 with a tired lower back.
Fuck up the lower back it stays with you for life.
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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2013, 11:41:30 AM »

Everyone will react differently to any substance. I actually felt better coming off steroids...happier.


EDIT: Oh God I felt really tired the first few weeks though now that I remember.
 

Most will feel exactly what I posted when using a lot of androgen steroids. Most that use injectables it takes longer and is more gradual to get out of your system. It's a question of dose too. Just being off cycle for a month is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about hard use for a contest then not using for 6 months. Most lose so much muscle and also feel like hell mentally.
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« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2013, 11:46:22 AM »

Good point and the other factors as well drove him over the edge, strange that Ray died the next day as well.

I guess they both had bad hearts and Ray with kidney problems. One can speculate how much smoking, drugs and genetic predisposition contributed to their death. It is really strange how Ray died right after Mike. I guess we will never know. I was the biggest Mike Mentzer fan back in the day. It's tragic how their life was so short.
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« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2013, 11:48:47 AM »

I guess they both had bad hearts and Ray with kidney problems. One can speculate how much smoking, drugs and genetic predisposition contributed to their death. It is really strange how Ray died right after Mike. I guess we will never know. I was the biggest Mike Mentzer fan back in the day. It's tragic how their life was so short.
As well, I trained with Mike once at Venice late 90's sad story for them both.
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« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2013, 03:00:01 PM »

Most will feel exactly what I posted when using a lot of androgen steroids. Most that use injectables it takes longer and is more gradual to get out of your system. It's a question of dose too. Just being off cycle for a month is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about hard use for a contest then not using for 6 months. Most lose so much muscle and also feel like hell mentally.

You're right oldtimer...the longer you're on, the larger the doses the bigger the crash...no doubt about it.

Wrt my comment I was on for about six months but using just little baby doses. I'm sure it would've been a lot different had I been using mentzer like doses which is what your original post was about.


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« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2013, 06:07:11 PM »

For me, strength gains have always been more of a side effect....placing too much emphasis on getting stronger every workout seems like a great way to injure yourself.

Limits...we all have them whether on or off.  
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« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2013, 05:59:42 AM »

I'm a bodybuilding fan and I have been lifting weights forever. It's sad but true that this is a sub culture of a sport that is based on drugs. No drugs would equal no sport. Please don't tell me about the natural contests that have trouble selling out a small high school auditorium.

I have found some really great people involved in bodybuilding but it also attracts so many people on the fringe of society. It seems so many who bodybuild are fans of bodybuilding drugs. They rationalize that all involved in sport use drugs to justify why they use steroids to look muscular. I really think something is really disturbing that anyone would risk health to temporarily look fantastic while on drugs. How could you be proud of your "achievement" when you know without the drug assist you would look like crap?   

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« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2013, 06:30:37 AM »

yes, coming off big doses will give an epic,epic crash.but if mentaly prepared and not giving a fuck, itll be all good.

coming of hrt dose no matter how long been on, will be smooth.still shit feeling, but smooth.esp the first couple weeks, the muscle gonna look awesome as the water under skin goes away, face becomes thinner etc.then after a month or so, itll be bye bye to volume.

as for what this liar mentzer says, i cant believe dj181 believes a single word of it.progressive getting stronger, my balls.

you get stronger the first 2 years and then thats it.then on gear you get stronger than natty but even that has its limits.

so what are you supposed to do to get bigger? get weaker Cheesy

i've never ever been very consistant with my training, as i start and then stop for years and then start again etc. so i've never really acheived my max potential

also, i just recently started calf training and i plan to load up the calf raise weight which will give me bigger calves, just you wait and see Wink

p.s. the only muscle i have ever trained hard and long was chest

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« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2013, 07:06:31 AM »

I'm a bodybuilding fan and I have been lifting weights forever. It's sad but true that this is a sub culture of a sport that is based on drugs. No drugs would equal no sport. Please don't tell me about the natural contests that have trouble selling out a small high school auditorium.

I have found some really great people involved in bodybuilding but it also attracts so many people on the fringe of society. It seems so many who bodybuild are fans of bodybuilding drugs. They rationalize that all involved in sport use drugs to justify why they use steroids to look muscular. I really think something is really disturbing that anyone would risk health to temporarily look fantastic while on drugs. How could you be proud of your "achievement" when you know without the drug assist you would look like crap?  



Some people just won't understand why we do it....just like how I don't understand when someone tells me how bad they are while at the same time they're getting shit faced every night and or doing recreational drugs. Like drugs and alcohol are good for your body somehow lol

And it has nothing to do about how you look with or without them for me. It's the fact that the body has its limits and if you're serious about progressing its just something that has to be done.

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« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2013, 07:13:38 AM »

so what are you supposed to do to get bigger? get weaker Cheesy

i've never ever been very consistant with my training, as i start and then stop for years and then start again etc. so i've never really acheived my max potential

also, i just recently started calf training and i plan to load up the calf raise weight which will give me bigger calves, just you wait and see Wink

p.s. the only muscle i have ever trained hard and long was chest



Just like you can't get lean eating way too many calories the opposite has to be true for growth.
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« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2013, 08:04:12 AM »

Look at the biggest pros. Coleman, Yates, Kai Greene, Victor, Cutler, Levrone, Cormier  all of those guys are strong as hell it's not a coincidence.
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« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2013, 08:18:02 AM »

Look at the biggest pros. Coleman, Yates, Kai Greene, Victor, Cutler, Levrone, Cormier  all of those guys are strong as hell it's not a coincidence.

Since you seem to know more about the strength of these guys who are the "weak" ones then?
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« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2013, 09:24:48 AM »

Just like you can't get lean eating way too many calories the opposite has to be true for growth.


exactly

who gives a shit about HIT, weider, Max-OT what matters is this...

more weight on the bar=bigger muscles

i never said HIT/Mentzer is the best or only way to train (although it is for me)

the best way to train is whatever method allows one to progressively add weight to the bar (that is if you are training for bigger muscles)

if you want to train to be ultra fit and in outstanding condition then of course you must train differently
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