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Author Topic: Do you guys do any direct work for the front delts?  (Read 3210 times)
jpm101
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« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2013, 10:37:47 AM »

WOOO: you only doing Hatha Yoga, including Pranic practice?  Might find Ayurvedic  of interest. Been involved, on and off, since a teenagers. Interesting stuff.  Where I have gone for Hatha, everyone wears white loose Hindu style clothes. The mind is on the pain reflex of some of the position holds, not letting the mind wander to other more delights..like some amazing women (MILF's mostly). As we know, certain breathing meditations increase the sexual power to a much higher degree. (any time, any where)


Galeniko is completely correct, about not having isolation of a specific muscle (as the delt structure was noted). The body acts as a total unit; action (cause) and counter action (effect). Even when you think your doing strict, isolation curls, the triceps are still brought into he action.  If injecting a muscle numbing agent into the  heads of the triceps, doing a simple curl may prove to be a difficult task.

 Any overhead pressing recruits all three heads of the delts, as well as the traps strongly. Any form of arm raises  (front, side, rear) also requires all three delt heads. Raising the hand above shoulder level, calls upon the traps to give aid.  Good Luck

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Donny
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« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2013, 11:14:40 AM »

so i guess Larry Scott was wasting his time... Roll Eyes you can throw stress on an area of a muscle group. look at crunches and full sit ups for example. Donīt tell me they are not diffrent or a Barbell row works your back like a pullover.. Doing a few Basic exercises will not develop a muscle group fully. Explain to me why all the Champions all did? or can you tell me a Mr O winner who just did a few basic presses and won any major competition. we are talking Bodybuilding not powerlifting. I suspect even powerlifters do isolation moves to avoid injury too, also if you have a weak area in a muscle group how will you "specialize"? more presses right? rubbish.
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Montague
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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2013, 11:31:46 AM »

Total isolation is considered impossible, but specific exercises can certainly emphasize a particular aspect of a muscle over others. That's one reason that a variety of exercises is usually needed for complete development - especially in larger muscles.

I'm familiar with the arguments like, "either all parts of a muscle contract, or none at all." While true, consider any anatomy chart, which clearly depicts the striations of many skeletal muscles traveling in different directions and even through different planes.
It's not hard to believe that different movements will yield a different effect on the same muscle.
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jpm101
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« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2013, 12:14:05 PM »

The whole point of the actual isolation of a muscle  seems to to be totally confused again. Not a question of the BB row working like the pullover the same way...nothing to do with the original concept. Put it simple...like apples & oranges.

 May be too much male hero worship of these "champs" is over riding simple basic logic.  And a great big, Good Luck.


Montague:  True, it's the all or nothing principle of a muscle group. Isolation can be a incorrect term, with too much of a common use among lifters. Perhaps focus may develop into a better term.  Lateral raises hit the lateral head quite well, but that is not the only area that may receive development.....within the shoulder girdle and traps.  Different approaches to the same exercise/movement (lateral raises here) used can yield  different focused results. A different bend to the elbow/wrist, angle, grip and even finger position can reap a different response towards muscle growth. Even a strict vs  cheat or one arm at a time performance can make a difference.

I'm planning to see your remarks again posted by someone, with "This" added at the bottom.
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Donny
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« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2013, 12:25:12 PM »

worship...I respect men like Bill pearl yes. Your arrogance is never ending. I mean you know better than  all  the champion bodybuilders..hell. you can rewrite bodybuilding.
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Montague
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« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2013, 12:48:46 PM »

Montague:  True, it's the all or nothing principle of a muscle group. Isolation can be a incorrect term, with too much of a common use among lifters. Perhaps focus may develop into a better term.  Lateral raises hit the lateral head quite well, but that is not the only area that may receive development.....within the shoulder girdle and traps.  Different approaches to the same exercise/movement (lateral raises here) used can yield  different focused results. A different bend to the elbow/wrist, angle, grip and even finger position can reap a different response towards muscle growth. Even a strict vs  cheat or one arm at a time performance can make a difference.


Yeah, I think that the literal interpretation of semantics necessitates a more appropriate choice of kinesiological terminology.

In other words... terms like "focus" and "emphasize" are gooder than "isolation." Grin
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jpm101
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« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2013, 01:02:31 PM »

Never rewrite BB'ing, it's all out there, has been for years and pretty simple stuff..really.

Though if it was rewitten, some would have to have their male nurse read it to them..helping to understand where they went wrong.

                       Good Luck


Montague:  Yes, gooder would be cool'er.  (Too much time on my hands today........thought surf is starting to give some better breakers)
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Montague
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« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2013, 01:09:30 PM »

Montague:  Yes, gooder would be cool'er.  (Too much time on my hands today........thought surf is starting to give some better breakers)


Same here. This morning I was finally able to turn off my pager after being on call all last week, and I'm completely off today. Hit delts, tri's, and bi's. Have already eaten 6 eggs, pb on wheat toast, 1 large stuffed pepper, 1 Met-Rx shake, creatine, BCAA's, and 2 coffees.

Time now to go back for more. I LOVE being at home on a weekday! Grin

Watch those waves!!!
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Donny
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« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2013, 01:10:14 PM »

as for the comment about the Biceps and triceps..  Biceps muscle Shortens is contracted and trained the Triceps antagonistic muscle Lengthens but is not worked.. so therefor is not trained. so the goal of training the Bicep is reached.
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Donny
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« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2013, 01:12:40 PM »

Never rewrite BB'ing, it's all out there, has been for years and pretty simple stuff..really.

Though if it was rewitten, some would have to have their male nurse read it to them..helping to understand where they went wrong.

                       Good Luck


Montague:  Yes, gooder would be cool'er.  (Too much time on my hands today........thought surf is starting to give some better breakers)
well you must know about male nurses because only you mentioned it.
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Montague
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« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2013, 02:32:13 PM »

You guys are too much!! Cool
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Donny
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« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2013, 02:35:46 PM »

all in good fun mate... Grin
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WOOO
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« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2013, 02:40:06 PM »

too much testosterone in here
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Donny
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« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2013, 02:44:45 PM »

time to get the f@cking gloves  on...
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WOOO
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« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2013, 03:54:26 PM »

this board is still far better than it was under dumpster
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Yev33
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« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2013, 05:54:39 PM »

this is not opinion, its fact, you knuckledragger.

you cant isolate parts of any muscle.

want big shoulders ,do military presses.

very simple.

show me the guy who build huge shoulders with frontal raises,lmfao.

Read the thread and then comment
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WOOO
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« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2013, 06:00:54 PM »

want big shoulders ,do military presses.

and yet you reject squats and deadlifts?
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Yev33
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« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2013, 07:13:38 PM »

Isn't it ironic that the guy who starts his own thread here about his shoulder issues won't bother to read through a thread that is mainly about that?
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WOOO
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« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2013, 07:15:51 PM »

Isn't it ironic that the guy who starts his own thread here about his shoulder issues won't bother to read through a thread that is mainly about that?


i think you should do 2 sets of front raises before every meal
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Yev33
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« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2013, 07:20:15 PM »

What about after? No stone unturned right?  Grin
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WOOO
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« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2013, 07:36:13 PM »

What about after? No stone unturned right?  Grin


lifting heavy stones is also an excellent shoulder training movement, i remember several older gentlemen getting a lot of value out of single arm stone lifts, IMO stones make for great lifting tools and can literally be free. Good Luck
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Yev33
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« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2013, 07:49:54 PM »


lifting heavy stones is also an excellent shoulder training movement, i remember several older gentlemen getting a lot of value out of single arm stone lifts, IMO stones make for great lifting tools and can literally be free. Good Luck


Haha, I see what you did there. Well played sir, well played.
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WOOO
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« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2013, 07:54:04 PM »


Haha, I see what you did there. Well played sir, well played.

i can't help myself sometimes... i love JPM

but i love being an asshole even more
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wild willie
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« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2013, 08:17:42 PM »

so i guess Larry Scott was wasting his time... Roll Eyes you can throw stress on an area of a muscle group. look at crunches and full sit ups for example. Donīt tell me they are not diffrent or a Barbell row works your back like a pullover.. Doing a few Basic exercises will not develop a muscle group fully. Explain to me why all the Champions all did? or can you tell me a Mr O winner who just did a few basic presses and won any major competition. we are talking Bodybuilding not powerlifting. I suspect even powerlifters do isolation moves to avoid injury too, also if you have a weak area in a muscle group how will you "specialize"? more presses right? rubbish.
Donny.....you are spot on..... You have to include the side laterals and rear laterals for complete shoulder development. My 2 cents.
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prizm
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« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2013, 04:38:52 PM »

     I know that Olympic athletes like gymnasts, weightlifters, throwers, etc. don't use isolation movements like these, but then again most of them are late teens to mid twenties and might not feel the same types of aches and pains as those of us who have been training for 10 years and are around the 30 and over mark.

Not true. There's a big thread somewhere on Pendlay's forum about a guy that went to China to train with the Olympic lifters. They swear by leg extensions for knee health and also do a lot of 'bodybuilder' work after training their main lifts. Below is gold medalist Lu Xiaojun hitting some laterals for example:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IDqX1eMFmA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IDqX1eMFmA</a>

And on topic...

I had to go to physical therapy in the last couple years to figure out a scapular instability issue. I worked with a few PT's that regularly work with MLB players to remedy their shoulder problems, and the first thing they had me do was a lot of front/side/rear raises. It was just one piece of my overall program that rehabbed my shoulder, but I definitely notice a difference not doing them at least in a warmup before pressing work. My shoulder feels normal the first time in 7+ years doing this.

And on a broscience note, my front delts 'pop' more when including front raises. Most would roll their eyes at this but I notice a difference. Yates swore by front raises and said you simply can't get full development out of the delts by just relying on presses. I never agreed with this and thought it made zero sense on paper until I tried it myself.

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