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Author Topic: Another brick in the wall for vegetarians...  (Read 4548 times)
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« on: February 17, 2013, 05:37:16 PM »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/08/us-health-plant-diet-idUSBRE91712520130208

Are plant-based diets environmentally friendly

After analyzing the eating habits of about 2,000 French adults, and the greenhouse gas emissions generated by producing the plants, fish, meat, fowl and other ingredients, researchers concluded that widely embraced goals for the health of people and for the health of the planet are not necessarily perfectly compatible.

Growing fruit and vegetables doesn't produce as much greenhouse gas as raising cattle or livestock, the study confirms, but people who eat a primarily plant-based diet make up for that by eating more of those foods.

"When you eat healthy, you have to eat a lot of food that has a low content of energy. You have to eat a lot of fruits and vegetables," said Nicole Darmon, the study's senior author from the National Research Institute of Agronomy in Marseille, France.

Greenhouse gases - which include carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide - are produced by machines that burn fossil fuels. That gas is then released into the atmosphere, where it contributes to climate change.

Food production - including the use of farming equipment and transportation - is estimated to be responsible for 15 percent to 30 percent of greenhouse gas emissions in developed countries, the authors write in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

Scientists have long advised people to switch to a plant-based diet to benefit the environment and their own health.

To more closely examine that premise, Darmon and her colleagues used food diaries from 1,918 French adults to compare the nutritional quality of people's real-world diets and how much greenhouse gas they produced.

From the diaries that were kept for seven days between 2006 and 2007, the researchers identified the 400 most commonly consumed foods. They then used a database to find out how much greenhouse gas was emitted to produce each one - measured as the grams of carbon dioxide equivalent per 100 grams of food.

All aspects of a food's lifecycle were taken into account, including how it was cooked, Darmon said. "The only step that wasn't taken into account was the transport from the supermarket to the home," she added.

According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the average car emits about 423 grams of carbon dioxide every mile.

Overall, about 1,600 grams of carbon dioxide were emitted for every 100 grams of meat produced. That's more than 14 times the amount of greenhouse gas emitted during the production of fruit, vegetables and starches. It's also about 2.5 times as much greenhouse gas as that generated by fish, pork, poultry and eggs.

That gap narrowed, however, when the researchers looked at how many grams of carbon dioxide were emitted per 100 kilocalories (kcal) - a measure of energy in food.

The most greenhouse gas - 857 grams - was still emitted to produce 100 kcal of meat, but it was only about three times the emissions from a comparable amount of energy from fruit and vegetables.

Greens also ended up emitting more gas for the calories than starches, sweets, salty snacks, dairy and fats. It was also about as much gas as pork, poultry and eggs.

And when Darmon and her colleagues looked at what people actually ate to get a certain amount of energy from food every day, they found that the "highest-quality" diets in health terms - those high in fruit, vegetables and fish - were linked to about as much, if not more, greenhouse gas emissions as low-quality diets that were high in sweets and salts.

Overall, the documented diets were responsible for around 5,000 grams of greenhouse gas emissions per day per person.

Darmon said that's because people who eat a plant-based diet need to eat more produce to get the amount of energy they'd have in a piece of meat.

"I think to any reader it's surprising. One of the standard things we hear is that meat - particularly red meat - has the greatest greenhouse gas emissions," said Roni Neff, who studies how food contributes to climate change but was not involved with the new study.

But Neff, the director of research and policy at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health's Center for a Livable Future, cautioned against taking the findings too literally. "It's a lot more complex than that," she added.

For example, she pointed out that according to the study's calculations, people would need to eat about nine pounds of fruit and vegetables to make up for a smaller serving of meat, and that may be unrealistic.

But, Neff said, "I think they're raising a lot of important questions that need further investigation."

SOURCE: bit.ly/W1KW2y The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, online January 30, 2013.
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 06:44:12 PM »

As moderator on a nutrition forum, I'm not supposed to say things like, "I believe that vegetarians are fukking idiots."
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2013, 03:14:28 AM »

As moderator on a nutrition forum, I'm not supposed to say things like, "I believe that vegetarians are fukking idiots."


i've stated many times that a traditional vegetarian diet rich in eggs, dairy and fish can be healthy... but the vegan extremists are just killing themselves
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2013, 05:48:02 AM »


i've stated many times that a traditional vegetarian diet rich in eggs, dairy and fish can be healthy... but the vegan extremists are just killing themselves


Under ideal circumstances, I would accept that.

However, let's refer to your diet outlined above as the ideal. Most people I know fail to eat at least one of the food sources on that list.
Many folks don't eat eggs due to allergies or dislike. Many people won't drink milk because of lactose issues. And, I know a lot of people who simply don't like fish.

Now, under the conditions of a conventional diet, omitting one or more of those sources is not so bad because healthy dietary variety compensates to a degree. But, I cannot say the same for a vegetarian diet, which is already limited. That aspect means that there is less room to compensate for neglecting other important foods.
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2013, 06:41:46 AM »


Under ideal circumstances, I would accept that.

However, let's refer to your diet outlined above as the ideal. Most people I know fail to eat at least one of the food sources on that list.
Many folks don't eat eggs due to allergies or dislike. Many people won't drink milk because of lactose issues. And, I know a lot of people who simply don't like fish.

Now, under the conditions of a conventional diet, omitting one or more of those sources is not so bad because healthy dietary variety compensates to a degree. But, I cannot say the same for a vegetarian diet, which is already limited. That aspect means that there is less room to compensate for neglecting other important foods.


absolutely...

either way... grass fed steak is king
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 09:58:41 PM »


Under ideal circumstances, I would accept that.

However, let's refer to your diet outlined above as the ideal. Most people I know fail to eat at least one of the food sources on that list.
Many folks don't eat eggs due to allergies or dislike. Many people won't drink milk because of lactose issues. And, I know a lot of people who simply don't like fish.

Now, under the conditions of a conventional diet, omitting one or more of those sources is not so bad because healthy dietary variety compensates to a degree. But, I cannot say the same for a vegetarian diet, which is already limited. That aspect means that there is less room to compensate for neglecting other important foods.

As far as protein goes, as long as you get enough complete protein in the right amounts, mass-building shouldn't be an issue.

I've done it on a vegetarian diet, using just milk and eggs as animal sources. Vegans can do it, too. But, their diet has to be on point.

They MUST match the right complementary veggies and grains to get complete proteins. Supplements today make being a vegan bodybuilder much easier. You can even get creatine and glutamine from vegetarian sources (NOW sports makes such products, along with a vegetarian glucosamine supplement for the joints).
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2013, 04:23:23 AM »

As far as protein goes, as long as you get enough complete protein in the right amounts, mass-building shouldn't be an issue.

I've done it on a vegetarian diet, using just milk and eggs as animal sources. Vegans can do it, too. But, their diet has to be on point.

They MUST match the right complementary veggies and grains to get complete proteins. Supplements today make being a vegan bodybuilder much easier. You can even get creatine and glutamine from vegetarian sources (NOW sports makes such products, along with a vegetarian glucosamine supplement for the joints).



Veganism is an eating disorder.
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2013, 10:15:15 PM »


i've stated many times that a traditional vegetarian diet rich in eggs, dairy and fish can be healthy... but the vegan extremists are just killing themselves

LOL, You just contrdicted yourself. Again.


* funny-quotes-dumb-people.jpg (29.92 KB, 620x434 - viewed 714 times.)
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 03:33:53 AM »

LOL, You just contrdicted yourself. Again.

How?
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 05:08:20 PM »


Veganism is an eating disorder.

Hardly!! Just find the right proteins to eat in the right combinations and all is well.
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 05:32:11 PM »

LOL, You just contrdicted yourself. Again.

There is a difference between Vegan and Vegetarian, however I don't think that Fish are on Vegetarian diets either...

Dairy and Eggs are, but not fish.

Please correct me if I'm wrong though... I don't really follow the diets so I could be mistaken.
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 06:27:43 PM »

Hardly!! Just find the right proteins to eat in the right combinations and all is well.

impossible to get all essential amino acids... even then... what's the point? meat is GOOD
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 06:28:41 PM »

There is a difference between Vegan and Vegetarian, however I don't think that Fish are on Vegetarian diets either...

Dairy and Eggs are, but not fish.

Please correct me if I'm wrong though... I don't really follow the diets so I could be mistaken.



traditionally it was included... it's not a cuddly animal... it's a fish...

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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 11:06:04 PM »

impossible to get all essential amino acids... even then... what's the point? meat is GOOD

No, it's not impossible to get all the essential aminos. One, you can get them all from soy.

Two, as stated earlier, you simply combine certain veggies with other veggies or grains. With each one having essential aminos that the other lacks, you get complete proteins (red beans/chickpeas and rice, for example).

Three, even with eating meat, consuming more veggie proteins saves you a bundle, because you stretch your chicken breasts and beef further. I've saved on my grocery bill by eating, for example, one chicken breast, some garbanzo beans and rice, instead of downing two chicken breasts.

Old-school vegetarian/vegan nutritionists say you have to combine complementary proteins at the same meal. New-school nutritionists disagree, clamining that it's fine as long as you eat complementary proteins, throughout the day.

It certainly doesn't hurt your bodybuilding efforts to go vegan, or at least vegetarian. Forme Mr. South Africa, Roy Hiligen, attested to that. He often rebuffed his critics, who said you had to eat meat to be big and strong, citing that he was just as strong as, if not stronger than, his contemporaries on a vegetarian diet.
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2013, 12:06:10 AM »

I'll try the vegetarian thing once or twice a year after I beat a bad cold or flu.

After a day, I miss the meat *outed*
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2013, 03:12:58 AM »

I'll try the vegetarian thing once or twice a year after I beat a bad cold or flu.

After a day, I miss the meat *outed*

 Grin
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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2013, 01:04:34 PM »

Vegan and strong:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9v2IjuzlQA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9v2IjuzlQA</a>
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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2013, 08:59:02 PM »

I prefer eating healthy diet, I don't think that vegetarian are going right. They are missing many important nutrition. Being healthy is not a difficult place to reach, but in order to feel better, look better,
and think clearer, you need a strong nutritional base. Eat a variety of healthy foods, and limit calories and saturated fat.

isaacbefitlife
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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2013, 09:17:13 AM »

I prefer eating healthy diet, I don't think that vegetarian are going right. They are missing many important nutrition. Being healthy is not a difficult place to reach, but in order to feel better, look better,
and think clearer, you need a strong nutritional base. Eat a variety of healthy foods, and limit calories and saturated fat.

What exactly are they missing?
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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2013, 10:47:16 AM »

I prefer eating healthy diet, I don't think that vegetarian are going right. They are missing many important nutrition.

Really?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpW9Quxrpl4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpW9Quxrpl4</a>
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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2013, 05:48:12 PM »

As moderator on a nutrition forum, I'm not supposed to say things like, "I believe that vegetarians are fukking idiots."

As a member of this section I too am not suppose to say things like "I believe that vegetarians are retards and should be fed meat"
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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2013, 05:49:10 PM »

Vegan and strong fat:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9v2IjuzlQA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9v2IjuzlQA</a>

Fat wolverine

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« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2013, 05:52:15 PM »

I prefer eating healthy diet, I don't think that vegetarian are going right. They are missing many important nutrition. Being healthy is not a difficult place to reach, but in order to feel better, look better,
and think clearer, you need a strong nutritional base. Eat a variety of healthy foods, and limit calories and saturated fat.

I've heard it from a few doctors and read before numerous times that... we cannot get all our protein from vegeterian sources for proper genetic proliferation... bottom line is I tried to be vegeterian in high school for what was it almost two years (long story why), and it was the worst experience ever. Wasted two precious years of my life. Started back up with fish, then chicken, then beef, then devouring whole lambs. Never looked back.

As a former vegeterian, felt miserably tired, weak, etc... its bs unless you want to be a skeleton. The few examples of bodybuilders who are vegeterian and have size... they probably have size because of their genetics more so than the food they are eating or not eating.

I always laugh at the arguments of vegeterians such as 'take protein powders' and 'take supplements' Oh I see...! Hit your head through a brick wall instead of admit you're doing it wrong.
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« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2013, 06:06:56 PM »

As moderator on a nutrition forum, I'm not supposed to say things like, "I believe that vegetarians are fukking idiots."

As a member of this section I too am not suppose to say things like "I believe that vegetarians are retards and should be fed meat"


Yes, so it's a good thing neither of us is saying either of those things.
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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2013, 08:15:12 AM »

What exactly are they missing?

Vitamin B 12, calcium, vitamin D, iron?

http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/healthy-eating/common-vegan-diet-deficiencies-prevention-tips.html
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