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Author Topic: Why do people still insist Hitler was an Atheist?  (Read 4379 times)
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 09:08:30 PM »


Like your dead mate atheist chris hitchens mentions,

1.A review of his autobiography Hitch-22 in the Jewish Daily Forward refers to Hitchens as "a prominent anti-Zionist" and says that he views Zionism "as an injustice against the Palestinians".

2.In his 2006 debate with Martin Amis, Hitchens stated that "one must not insult or degrade or humiliate people.

3.Hitchens argued that instead of supporting Zionism, Jews should help "secularize and reform their own societies", believing that unless one is religious, "what the hell are you doing in the greater Jerusalem area in the first place?" Indeed, Hitchens goes so far as to claim that the only justification for Zionism given by Jews is a religious one.

4.Hitchens described Zionism as "an ethno-nationalist quasi-religious ideology" and stated his desire that if possible, he would "re-wind the tape [to] stop Hertzl from telling the initial demagogic lie (actually two lies) that a land without a people needs a people without a land".
 



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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 10:25:34 PM »

Great post!

I think it is quite clear Hitler was in fact a christian. My fascination with the whole atheist spin is that what difference does it make, atheism has no tenets, no rules, only the disbelief in god, what meaning you attach to that is your own. There is no logical in road to genocide from atheism, no in road to lack of morality.

That's right! Hitler WAS a Christian. But, by the time he got to power, he made it clear that he wanted to stamp out Christianity "root and branch". He wanted the swastika to replace the cross. He wanted people to see HIM as God, not Jesus Christ.

It pretty much goes to what I've said for years (which almost always gets under atheists' skin). Atheism, in its purest form, is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.
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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2013, 12:10:36 AM »

That's right! Hitler WAS a Christian. But, by the time he got to power, he made it clear that he wanted to stamp out Christianity "root and branch". He wanted the swastika to replace the cross. He wanted people to see HIM as God, not Jesus Christ.

It pretty much goes to what I've said for years (which almost always gets under atheists' skin). Atheism, in its purest form, is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.
Other way around, worshipping GOD is man worshipping his projected self.  Atheism is worshipping nothing, Atheism simply sees reality as it is, nothing of any real worth, life has much good, but also much evil suffering, this is nothing to be worshipped.  To worship creation and it's Creator is to not only celebrate the good, but the EVIL, a very ignoble act indeed.

And Hitler never wanted to stamp out Christianity, he realised what a powerful political tool it was.  besides, Hitler truly believed he was doing Gods work, as most do-gooders do on their way to making life miserable for everyone else.
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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2013, 07:17:56 AM »

Whoa!  Of everything you've ever posted this I disagree with most strongly!  God is perfect, and a result of bieng perfect is to be perfectly fair and just as well.  I'm honestly shocked how anyone can claim to love God and believe that He is not fair.  But it doesn't surprise me that you have to make such outrageous comments to blindly support what you want to believe.

What do you mean by "believed in Jesus?"  I can say I believe in Jesus.  Are you referring to "how many Jews who died in the holocaust believed that Jesus died for their sins before their death?"  If so, we both know that would be a small percentage.  Despite the percentage, you still didn't answer the question of fairness, that the ruthless dictator "may" go to heaven whereas his suffering victims will eternally go to hell, unless some changed their beliefs sometime between their arrest and their execution.

Now you know what I believe, wow....didn't know you can read my thoughts?  No I do not believe that everyone of those Jews will go to hell.  In Islam everyone is judged based on actions and faith, there are lots of examples given where people who have done good deeds may not go to hell.  And even among those who do spend time in hell, its not always eternal either.  For example, one can go to hell for a year to "do their time" for their crimes and then be raised to heaven.  This way Islam is most just and does not eternally damn anyone simply based on their beliefs.

Of course God is fair, and perfect, and just, and merciful, and God is love.  Mine was sarcasm, in response to you repeatedly saying in this and in other threads "it's not fair."  

In fact, I believe God is fair more so than you do.  I believe that God is so fair and so just that He does not let sin go unpunished, even when God forgives sin.  And that is why Jesus said the Father sent him to die for our sins.

bigbobs, do you remember this when you read Matthew?  It is very relevant to your question.

Matthew 20:1-16

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”
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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2013, 09:57:09 AM »

Thanks, that answers part of the question - the one on Hitler's destiny, which is basically "we are not sure how God will judge him and whether or not he will go to heaven."

Second and unanswered part is - do the massacred Jews go to hell despite their suffering in this world, because they did not believe Jesus died for their sins?

And perhaps a third off-topic question is - do you think that's fair (Hitler being a maybe heaven and his victims being definitely hell)?

Sorry bobs, I did gloss over the second half your question....got caught up in thought on Hitler and ignored the rest.   I'll address later on today when I have a bit more time.....most likely in a couple of hours.
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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2013, 11:32:41 AM »

Of course God is fair, and perfect, and just, and merciful, and God is love.  Mine was sarcasm, in response to you repeatedly saying in this and in other threads "it's not fair."  

In fact, I believe God is fair more so than you do.  I believe that God is so fair and so just that He does not let sin go unpunished, even when God forgives sin.  And that is why Jesus said the Father sent him to die for our sins.

LOL what would be the "fairness" if God, as you claim, were to never let sin go unpunished when He created us imperfect in a manner knowing that we will sin.  So you create something which you know is incapable of not sinning, then punish it for sinning - how fair is that?  Even our man-made justice system has provisions for those deemed "insane" in that they were born in a way that they were not at a capacity to differentiate between right and wrong as those who are sane.

I'm not saying that God is not fair - He is - and the fact that He is fair is in total conflict with your belief that sin never goes unpunished.

Also hypothetically if Jesus did indeed die for our sins, woudlnt we all be forgiven?  Why would we have to then believe that he died for our sins in order to be forgiven?


bigbobs, do you remember this when you read Matthew?  It is very relevant to your question.

Matthew 20:1-16

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’



13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

And the point of this is...?
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« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2013, 11:46:41 AM »

LOL what would be the "fairness" if God, as you claim, were to never let sin go unpunished when He created us imperfect in a manner knowing that we will sin.  So you create something which you know is incapable of not sinning, then punish it for sinning - how fair is that?  Even our man-made justice system has provisions for those deemed "insane" in that they were born in a way that they were not at a capacity to differentiate between right and wrong as those who are sane.

I'm not saying that God is not fair - He is - and the fact that He is fair is in total conflict with your belief that sin never goes unpunished.

Also hypothetically if Jesus did indeed die for our sins, woudlnt we all be forgiven?  Why would we have to then believe that he died for our sins in order to be forgiven?

And the point of this is...?

Jesus said

"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."
John 8:24

And Jesus also said

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."
John 3:18


bigbobs, did you read Jesus' Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard?  What do you thinks Jesus was teaching here?
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« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2013, 11:59:05 AM »

Jesus said

"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."
John 8:24

And Jesus also said

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."
John 3:18


bigbobs, did you read Jesus' Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard?  What do you thinks Jesus was teaching here?

What you believe Jesus said or meant does not change the fact that your beliefs suggest an unfair unjust God.

Didn't pay too much attention to the Parable story, as I dont see how it relates to the topic at hand.  If you can show how it does then I'll address it, otherwise I'll see it as just a derailment and ignore it.
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« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2013, 12:03:47 PM »

What you believe Jesus said or meant does not change the fact that your beliefs suggest an unfair unjust God.

Didn't pay too much attention to the Parable story, as I dont see how it relates to the topic at hand.  If you can show how it does then I'll address it, otherwise I'll see it as just a derailment and ignore it.

Actually, what Jesus said suggests a loving, just and fair God.

I thought you would ignore Jesus' parable.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2013, 12:10:39 PM »

Actually, what Jesus said suggests a loving, just and fair God.

Agreed.  Except the difference is I don't believe Jesus taught that every single human goes to hell for eternity unless they believe Jesus died for their sins.  That's your belief, and no one in their right mind can say that's fair given that God did not create us capable of avoiding sinning.


I thought you would ignore Jesus' parable.   Roll Eyes

I thought you would not be able to describe how Jesus' parable is related to the topic at hand.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2013, 01:36:47 PM »

Thanks, that answers part of the question - the one on Hitler's destiny, which is basically "we are not sure how God will judge him and whether or not he will go to heaven."

Second and unanswered part is - do the massacred Jews go to hell despite their suffering in this world, because they did not believe Jesus died for their sins?

And perhaps a third off-topic question is - do you think that's fair (Hitler being a maybe heaven and his victims being definitely hell)?

Sorry bobs, I did gloss over the second half your question....got caught up in thought on Hitler and ignored the rest.   I'll address later on today when I have a bit more time.....most likely in a couple of hours.
Your second and third points certainly reference eternity, but frame the reasoning for eternity within a finite, human perspective based upon suffering in this life.   Your argument also goes along with the assumption that everything I said regarding Hitler's mental capacity is the reality of the situation (and that may not the reality of the situation).  Our individual suffering or non-suffering in this finite, human existence has no bearing on eternity....we're all going to suffer in this life and some more than others.  This is why I mentioned previously that this life, this blink of an eye existence, is merely a prepping grounds for the eternity yet to come.  God never promised that this life would be without trials; in fact, he assured us there would be trials.  Most often it's the trials we endure, those moments of humility and pain in which God can do his greatest work in our lives.....whew, he did in mine!!  This life will involve numerous decisions we have to make, but the most important decision any of us has to make (since Christ established the new covenant for both jew and gentile) is whether or not we accept him as Lord Savior and are thereby saved by grace through faith and indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  

So, do I think it's fair that the jews slaughtered by "mentally-ill Hitler" that refused to accept Christ during their lives spend eternity in hell while "mentally-ill Hitler" that was not of right mind and able to make a rational decision in that state and therefore slaughtered the jews because of the illness goes to heaven for eternity because prior to his mentally handicapped state he made a decision to accept Christ?  Yes, I believe it's fair.  

Here’s the thing, I don't know whether Hilter was mentally ill or if he was fully sane and fully evil during his life on earth, but I do know that in terms of the millions of jews he had slaughtered that their place in eternity was completely based on the individual decisions they made about Christ and it had nothing to do with their suffering at the hands of Nazis.  Believers and nonbelievers pass everyday, some die in anguish and chaos and some die in peace and comfort.  Hitler exhibited numerous qualities that would easily define him as a lunatic, but he may have been completely sane and fully evil.  I can't know for sure, but that doesn't mean God won't handle the situation appropriately.  Just because we can't fully reason through a situation doesn't mean God can't either.  

A lot of people scoff at the notion of mental illness, but unfortunately it's very real and an unfortunate part of this earthly existence.  Do I belief that God is all-knowing, all-loving and fully just?  Yes, I do.  Do I believe that the same God would condemn a person with mental illness or some other mental handicap that prevents them from making a genuinely informed decision about right and wrong to an eternity separate from him?  No I don't.  Do I know for certain that Hilter had mental illness?  No I don't.  Still, it's hard for me to imagine that someone that is not mentally ill is simply consumed with evil and absolutely cognizant of right and wrong and fully conscious of their evil intent and actions and is fine with that evil.  It's hard for me to imagine that, but that doesn't mean it's outside of reality.  Hitler could be nothing but evil and completely sane at the same time.   Remember, sin entered the world when Adam and Eve chose to defy God's only rule in the garden and in doing so they became aware of sin and death and became aware of the difference to commit sin or not to commit sin...this was the turning point, here entered awareness and accountability.  There are mentally handicapped among us today that are fully alive, but fully ignorant and unaware of sin because of their mental limitations and because of that are not held accountable by God.  They need not make a choice for Christ because they're already without blame and have no sins which require atonement and will be apart of Christ's eternal kingdom when they leave this life.

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« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2013, 02:04:06 PM »

Agreed.  Except the difference is I don't believe Jesus taught that every single human goes to hell for eternity unless they believe Jesus died for their sins.  That's your belief, and no one in their right mind can say that's fair given that God did not create us capable of avoiding sinning.

I thought you would not be able to describe how Jesus' parable is related to the topic at hand.   Roll Eyes

Jesus taught plenty in the Gospels about dying for our sins to save us from hell, and about the importance of believing this about him.

Oh, I am able to see what Jesus' parable teaches, and so are you.  All you have to do is read it.
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« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2013, 03:04:15 PM »

It's a valid question, but ultimately the answer lies in the true contents of our hearts and God's ultimate judgement of those contents.  "Saying the words" simply isn't enough if you know what I mean.  Salvation through Christ also entails repentance which is the act of changing our minds about sin and living according to the guidance of the Holy Spirit that indwells the Christian.  In the end God will absolutely distinguish between the genuine article and the counterfeit.  You could also question the notion that if Hitler was insane and not acting of his own volition because of mental illness is he truly accountable for his actions?  Again, in the end only God will make the final judgement, but that judgement will be sufficient, righteous, appropriate, loving and in full accordance with his will.  We discuss the finality of death in this life, but this life is merely setting the stage for eternity yet to come.

Let'a assume that he wasn't insane. And let's also assume, for a second, that Hitler genuinely repented in the last millisecond of his life and accepted Jesus Christ as his savior. If that's all it takes, then Hitler would end up in Heaven. Are you really OK with that notion?
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« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2013, 05:15:01 PM »

Let'a assume that he wasn't insane. And let's also assume, for a second, that Hitler genuinely repented in the last millisecond of his life and accepted Jesus Christ as his savior. If that's all it takes, then Hitler would end up in Heaven. Are you really OK with that notion?

Yes, I'm ok with anyone that honestly and humbly seeks to be saved by grace through faith in Christ and who then genuinely repents of their sin.  Now, I can't fully comprehend the depth of God's love, mercy and forgiveness, but despite that I still trust that he is absolutely just and will evaluate and handle all situations appropriately.  

I've heard believers speak that were missionaries that were beaten and bound and forced to watch their remaining family members be tortured, raped and murdered in front of them and still forgive those that committed the acts.  Some of those folks that committed those heinous acts later surrendered their lives and became believers in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  I pray I never have to make a decision as incredible as that because my ability to forgive hasn't been tested at that level in my life.  Can't say for certain if I could respond with that level of maturity, forgiveness and love.
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« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2013, 05:52:50 PM »

Yes, I'm ok with anyone that honestly and humbly seeks to be saved by grace through faith in Christ and who then genuinely repents of their sin.  Now, I can't fully comprehend the depth of God's love, mercy and forgiveness, but despite that I still trust that he is absolutely just and will evaluate and handle all situations appropriately.

If what Jesus said is true, there's nothing to evaluate and handle - you believe and *boom* the blood of the lamb cleans you better than CLOROX cleans your favorite white t-shirt from highschool. If nothing else, that one single fact is enough to keep me from being a Christian.

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« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2013, 06:18:55 AM »

If what Jesus said is true, there's nothing to evaluate and handle - you believe and *boom* the blood of the lamb cleans you better than CLOROX cleans your favorite white t-shirt from highschool. If nothing else, that one single fact is enough to keep me from being a Christian.



I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough.   The evaluation I'm referring to is the whether or not the profession of faith and repentance by Hitler was genuine or not in our hypothetical "last millisecond of life conversion".  Just saying the words isn't like "abracadabra" if you don't truly mean them.  Almost anyone can "say the words" and not mean a word of it or do so to mock believers.  I've seen that happen in person, I've watched it occur in atheist/theist debates online, read about it in books and online articles and  I've seen it repeatedly occur on discussion boards online (ex: the G&O, Politics and Religion boards of Getbig is riddled with that stuff).  I've heard Hitchens, Harris and Dawkins all do so in debates and interviews (both video recorded and in print).   For us, we get to witness the transformation of new believers and how they demonstrate their new faith and live it out after conversion and for believers that validates for us the sincerity of the new believer; regardless, that demonstration for us isn't necessary to fulfill God's purposes.  In any instance only God can truly know the "contents of our hearts" (or our "true intentions" since we all know that the heart is only a muscle that pumps blood and isn't physically indwelt by the Holy Spirit).  That said, I trust that the millisecond profession of faith and repentance will be justly evaluated by God as sincere or insincere belief.
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« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2013, 09:13:08 AM »

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough.   The evaluation I'm referring to is the whether or not the profession of faith and repentance by Hitler was genuine or not in our hypothetical "last millisecond of life conversion".  Just saying the words isn't like "abracadabra" if you don't truly mean them.  Almost anyone can "say the words" and not mean a word of it or do so to mock believers.  I've seen that happen in person, I've watched it occur in atheist/theist debates online, read about it in books and online articles and  I've seen it repeatedly occur on discussion boards online (ex: the G&O, Politics and Religion boards of Getbig is riddled with that stuff).  I've heard Hitchens, Harris and Dawkins all do so in debates and interviews (both video recorded and in print).   For us, we get to witness the transformation of new believers and how they demonstrate their new faith and live it out after conversion and for believers that validates for us the sincerity of the new believer; regardless, that demonstration for us isn't necessary to fulfill God's purposes.  In any instance only God can truly know the "contents of our hearts" (or our "true intentions" since we all know that the heart is only a muscle that pumps blood and isn't physically indwelt by the Holy Spirit).  That said, I trust that the millisecond profession of faith and repentance will be justly evaluated by God as sincere or insincere belief.

Ah, I understand. I'm not sold, but I understand. Thanks MoS.
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« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2013, 09:29:08 AM »

Ah, I understand. I'm not sold, but I understand. Thanks MoS.

No problem, sorry my words weren't more clear....I'm working on that actually.
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« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2013, 07:31:09 AM »

Hitler was also in cahoots with the Church.  The Reichskonkordat (concordat) was a treaty between the Church and Nazi Germany.  It was signed on 20 July 1933 by Secretary of State Eugenio Pacelli (who later became Pope Pius XII) and Vice Chancellor Franz von Papen on behalf of Pope Pius XI and President Paul von Hindenburg respectively.  The concordat has been described as giving moral legitimacy to the Nazi regime soon after Hitler had acquired dictatorial powers, and placing constraints on Catholic critics of the regime, leading to a muted response by the Church to Nazi policies.

Hitler won the church’s approval, thereby gaining international recognition of his Nazi regime.  Eugenio Pacelli/Pope Pius XII was anti-Semitic and didn't care at all about the Jews.  Millions of Catholics joined the Nazi Party, because it had the support of the Pope.  It has been argued that the NAZI party could have never risen to power the way it did without the co-operation of the Catholic Church.  pope Pius XII facilitated the rise of Hitler first through the negotiation of the Reichskonkordat and subsequently through his passivity, silence and inaction, which ultimately condoned and enabled the Holocaust.
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« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2013, 08:12:51 AM »

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« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2013, 01:03:19 PM »

Hitler was also in cahoots with the Church.  The Reichskonkordat (concordat) was a treaty between the Church and Nazi Germany.  It was signed on 20 July 1933 by Secretary of State Eugenio Pacelli (who later became Pope Pius XII) and Vice Chancellor Franz von Papen on behalf of Pope Pius XI and President Paul von Hindenburg respectively.  The concordat has been described as giving moral legitimacy to the Nazi regime soon after Hitler had acquired dictatorial powers, and placing constraints on Catholic critics of the regime, leading to a muted response by the Church to Nazi policies.

Hitler won the church’s approval, thereby gaining international recognition of his Nazi regime.  Eugenio Pacelli/Pope Pius XII was anti-Semitic and didn't care at all about the Jews.  Millions of Catholics joined the Nazi Party, because it had the support of the Pope.  It has been argued that the NAZI party could have never risen to power the way it did without the co-operation of the Catholic Church.  pope Pius XII facilitated the rise of Hitler first through the negotiation of the Reichskonkordat and subsequently through his passivity, silence and inaction, which ultimately condoned and enabled the Holocaust.

That's why there was a 'second reformation' of sorts in the church where basically they wanted to repair their own image. The church went from you're going to hell you filthy sinner to Jesus loves you and all that jazz. Totally turn around. I remember studying this in catholic school ironically Tongue

Facts are facts... and also Christianity historically wanted to annihilate Jews. That's why Jews actually hate Christians even though evangelical and zionist organizations sleep in bed together, the common christian doesn't realize Israeli Jews hate Christians and Jesus (pbuh). They just want their money lol. For centuries the church was hunting down jews. Thus it only makes sense that they had common interests.
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« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2013, 10:48:15 PM »

That's why there was a 'second reformation' of sorts in the church where basically they wanted to repair their own image. The church went from you're going to hell you filthy sinner to Jesus loves you and all that jazz. Totally turn around. I remember studying this in catholic school ironically Tongue

Facts are facts... and also Christianity historically wanted to annihilate Jews. That's why Jews actually hate Christians even though evangelical and zionist organizations sleep in bed together, the common christian doesn't realize Israeli Jews hate Christians and Jesus (pbuh). They just want their money lol. For centuries the church was hunting down jews. Thus it only makes sense that they had common interests.
A-ahmed you are so predictable, you hate me when I bash on your religion but join in with me when I bash someone else's religion.

Hitler was inspired by the way the Arabs spread Islam by force, but he considered Arabs racially inferior.  The Arabs believed that had they won the Battle of Tours in the 8th Century AD, that the Germans would have become heirs to "a religion that believed in spreading the faith by the sword and subjugating all nations to that faith." Hitler spoke how this ideology was perfectly suited to the German temperament, and he countered the Arab belief that they would have ruled Germany by stating "That the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate of the country. They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire" In other words Hitler believed Germans would have beaten the Arabs at their own game and raised it a notch. 

A lot of Arabs thought Hitler would free them from the rule of the old colonial powers France and Britain.  Posters with Arabic sayings: "In heaven God is your ruler, on earth Hitler" were frequently displayed in shops in the towns of Syria.  The Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party stated that Fascism and Nazism had greatly influenced ba'athist ideology. An associate of al-Arsuzi wrote: "We were racists. We admired the Nazis. We were immersed in reading Nazi literature and books that were the source of the Nazi spirit...We were the first who thought of a translation of Mein Kampf."

One could go on all day about Islamic support of Hitler, I don't think you could find two groups who hated Jews more.

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« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2013, 10:51:07 PM »

A-ahmed you are so predictable, you hate me when I bash on your religion but join in with me when I bash someone else's religion.

I see you admit that you're bashing religions regardless of mine or someone else's but I didn't bash Christians just stating facts about the church. Besides I knew about this stuff while I was a christian. Hardly 'bashing'. And please don't ever equate me and you. You and I are nothing alike nor anything in common. Even my skin color as far as I'm concerned is a different shade of white than you. You're an evil individual and that's that. You are filled with hate of all religions and God and just try to play a smart ass in this section.

Jews survived because of Islam and Muslims, they themselves admit it. Their own historians speak of it. Their own historians speak of Jewish glory under Muslim rule. Christians indeed did persecute Jews for centuries and tried to exterminate them. These are facts. Unlike your fantasy tales of Islam and Muslims being 'after everyone'.

So go on and rant about your usual crap. You're actually predictable Smiley

"The arab socialist party" LMAO, they are against islam you dimwit. Who do you think Muslims are fighting in Syria? Muslims? No they are fighting the baathist scum, secularists. Aren't secularists your freinds? Yes being Arab is not being Muslim, just as I'm not Arab. But you know that  Roll Eyes It's as retarded as equating zionist Jews who were atheists/secularists and just racist nationalists with domination as their ultimate goal with religious torah Jews. Just because they have the same race doesn't mean they believe the same things.

Hardcore Torah ultra orthodox Jews for example are very anti-israel. You know that, but you seem to circle around facts just so you can dish out your hate against Islam and Muslims.
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« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2013, 11:23:26 AM »

good post on reddit

Hitler's entire crusade was set forth by Martin Luther himself, after getting thoroughly educated as a Catholic in his youth, and then furthering his education with reading Martin Luther's book "On the Jews and Their Lies," as explained by Julius Streicher, an Adolf Hitler admirer, and Nazi member since 1922, during the Nuremberg trials:


"Dr. Martin Luther would very probably sit in my place in the defendants' dock today, if this book had been taken into consideration by the Prosecution. In the book 'The Jews and Their Lies,' Dr. Martin Luther writes that the Jews are a serpent's brood and one should burn down their synagogues and destroy them..."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Hitler, he has plenty of quotes, both before and during the Third Reich, which more than proves his justification for such savagery:


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... … And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed."

-[Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people."

-[Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] ]


"The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc, because it recognized the Jews for what they were".... I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the church and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions."

-[Adolf Hitler, 26 April 1933, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We are determined, as leaders of the nation, to fulfill as a national government the task which has been given to us, swearing fidelity only to God, our conscience, and our Volk.... This the national government will regard its first and foremost duty to restore the unity of spirit and purpose of our Volk. It will preserve and defend the foundations upon which the power of our nation rests. It will take Christianity, as the basis of our collective morality, and the family as the nucleus of our Volk and state, under its firm protection....May God Almighty take our work into his grace, give true form to our will, bless our insight, and endow us with the trust of our Volk."

-[Adolf Hitler, on 1 Feb. 1933, addressing the German nation as Chancellor for the first time, Volkischer Beobachter, 5 Aug. 1935, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."

-[Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 46]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so"

-[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"…the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew."

-[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 11]

(The idea of the devil/Jew relationship started with medieval anti-Jewish beliefs, based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this "tradition" up until the 20th century, which was where Hitler learned such ideas.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

-[Adolf Hitler, speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles."

-[Adolf Hitler, speech in Koblenz, August 26, 1934]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work."

-[Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"It matters not whether these weapons of ours are humane: if they gain us our freedom, they are justified before our conscience and before our God.<

-[Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 01 Aug. 1923]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have evidence to the contrary, or sources/citations for where you claim he was not religious, or that WWII was not a modern day Christian crusade, please, feel free to rewrite the history books.

Otherwise, to put it in short, from all of his collective speeches and writings...


"I am now, as before, a Catholic, and will always remain so... I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator... our movement is Christian... I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed.

I recognize the representatives of [the Jewish] race as pestilent for the state and for the church and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions.

Christianity is the basis of our collective morality, and it matters not whether these weapons of ours are humane: if they gain us our freedom, they are justified before our conscience and before our God."

-[Adolf Hitler]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yet still today people have the audacity and ignorance to say he was atheist.
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« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2013, 10:16:01 AM »

good post on reddit

Hitler's entire crusade was set forth by Martin Luther himself, after getting thoroughly educated as a Catholic in his youth, and then furthering his education with reading Martin Luther's book "On the Jews and Their Lies," as explained by Julius Streicher, an Adolf Hitler admirer, and Nazi member since 1922, during the Nuremberg trials:


"Dr. Martin Luther would very probably sit in my place in the defendants' dock today, if this book had been taken into consideration by the Prosecution. In the book 'The Jews and Their Lies,' Dr. Martin Luther writes that the Jews are a serpent's brood and one should burn down their synagogues and destroy them..."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Hitler, he has plenty of quotes, both before and during the Third Reich, which more than proves his justification for such savagery:


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... … And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed."

-[Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people."

-[Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] ]


"The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc, because it recognized the Jews for what they were".... I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the church and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions."

-[Adolf Hitler, 26 April 1933, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We are determined, as leaders of the nation, to fulfill as a national government the task which has been given to us, swearing fidelity only to God, our conscience, and our Volk.... This the national government will regard its first and foremost duty to restore the unity of spirit and purpose of our Volk. It will preserve and defend the foundations upon which the power of our nation rests. It will take Christianity, as the basis of our collective morality, and the family as the nucleus of our Volk and state, under its firm protection....May God Almighty take our work into his grace, give true form to our will, bless our insight, and endow us with the trust of our Volk."

-[Adolf Hitler, on 1 Feb. 1933, addressing the German nation as Chancellor for the first time, Volkischer Beobachter, 5 Aug. 1935, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."

-[Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 46]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so"

-[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"…the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew."

-[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 11]

(The idea of the devil/Jew relationship started with medieval anti-Jewish beliefs, based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this "tradition" up until the 20th century, which was where Hitler learned such ideas.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

-[Adolf Hitler, speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles."

-[Adolf Hitler, speech in Koblenz, August 26, 1934]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work."

-[Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"It matters not whether these weapons of ours are humane: if they gain us our freedom, they are justified before our conscience and before our God.<

-[Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 01 Aug. 1923]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have evidence to the contrary, or sources/citations for where you claim he was not religious, or that WWII was not a modern day Christian crusade, please, feel free to rewrite the history books.

Otherwise, to put it in short, from all of his collective speeches and writings...


"I am now, as before, a Catholic, and will always remain so... I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator... our movement is Christian... I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed.

I recognize the representatives of [the Jewish] race as pestilent for the state and for the church and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions.

Christianity is the basis of our collective morality, and it matters not whether these weapons of ours are humane: if they gain us our freedom, they are justified before our conscience and before our God."

-[Adolf Hitler]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yet still today people have the audacity and ignorance to say he was atheist.


Billions refer to themselves as "Christian" or "spiritual" or "religious".  The majority do nothing to represent Christ and are simply nominal Christians at best...it's an utterly meaningless association.     

Hitler was simpy disturbed and deranged. 

It matters not which "religion" he may have claimed to associate with be it Christianity or Hinduism or Islam or Catholicism or Satanism.  Short story is, a representative of Christ he was not.....that he fully and completely demonstrated LOL.   

It matters not if a library full of signed, authenticated documents (by Hitler) was produced that indicated his association with a Christian organization or if a 6-hour documentary was unearthed that showed nothing but Hitler's extensive collection of "I Love Jesus" tshirts and Christmas sweaters or if his personal diary including 100,000 entries of, "Boy howdy I love Jesus!" was uncovered.  Simple fact is, Hitler did nothing to represent Christ or live his life according to the will and purposes of God.   

The connection folks attempt to make between Hitler and Christianity is laughable and displays nothing but simple ignorance on part of those attempting to make that connection.....that's not an insult either....ignorance is simply ignorance.
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