ARNOLD CLASSIC COMPARISION 2013 vs 90's

[doriancutlerman]

Notwithstanding this has zip to do with Romney, I argued that he'd be better for this country than Obama was. And, it turns out I was right, because the disasters that would fall on this country via a second Obama term are hitting, almost exactly as predicted.

And, we're barely into his second term.

Did or did not Cutler and Jackson defeat the likes of Levrone, Ray, Cormier, Wheeler, et. al., while they were STILL among the elite in bodybuilding?

Did they or did they not win the one title that those men could not win, Mr. Olympia?

Since you obviously know the answers to that, your claim that Cutler and Jackson aren't among the best of all time is beyond absurd. You and Bevo act as if those 90s guys suddenly turned into Ken Joneses and Jocelyn Peltiers, when Cutler and Jackson started defeating them.

I can't speak to what Bevo and Groink said, but you're right:  Jay and Dex did beat some of the 90s stars while they were still, as you said, among the elite.  And said 90s guys definitely weren't just pathetic shadows of their former selves ...

... however, it is fair to say Kevin, Flex and Shawn (dunno about Chris, he had some good showings after his peak in '99) were definitely not as good as they were in the 90s.  Even by 2000, Kevin's wheels were way down from what they had been.  Flex was getting smoother by the year and all puffy with oil.  Shawn was still good but not as shredded as in '92-'96 and '99. 

Is that to say Jay and Dex would never, ever beat those guys at their respective peaks?  Hmm.  I honestly don't think Dexter could.  Jay, maybe; it depends on a number of things. 

I think it speaks volumes that the top contenders from 2000-2010 would, at best, struggle to beat over twice as many contenders from the 90s, though.  We all know the field was a shitload deeper back then, even if some people tend to overstate just how lousy some of the talent is today.  There are plenty of good bodybuilders out there that simply haven't put it all together yet.  How many years did it take Ronnie, Milos, Darrem and such to win their first pro shows? 

[mesmorph78]

Agreed.  He didn't impress me at all in '06.  Ronnie beat himself that year.

But he did also look incredible at the '02 Ironman, if memory serves.

Yup 06 Coleman was torn up 07 worst
His bad looked bad he won't ok from the front on 06

[Bevo]

You're as pitiful at judging emotions as you are at comprehending simple sentences and concept.

Yet again, you keep parroting the same tripe, claiming I said things which I clearly did not.

Yes, Dexter Jackson won the Olympia; but that is NOT the sole reason why I put him over Ray. The fact you can't grasp that (despite my saying as much multiple times) shows how bereft of sense you actually are.

And, that's just with Dex. Factor in Jay Cutler, WHO DID BEAT SHAWN RAY at the Olympia and actually won the Olympia (along with 3 ASCs to Ray's one); and your musings really fall flat.

Yes that's what I was saying levrone in particular was still "highly competitive" and placing well in 2000 and a little further but he was far from his best, his legs were bad and I remember reading that he was"gifted" his placing for 2nd both 2000 and 2002 and that he didn't deserve it. (Cormier should have gotten 2nd in 02) Still good but not like 95/96/97/98

In 02 he went from 2nd to 6th in 2003 where dex finally beat him, but that year levrone suffered a back or tricep tear I can't remember and still entered that comp. that was also his final O and he looked terrible.

I agree though dex might have never beaten levrone or flex when they were ON but jay in 2001 did so I'll give him that. But flex and levrone are among the elites I would say higher than Cormier and ray

Sometimes the luck of the draw thier era was the mass monster Ronnie and Dorian, who knows if they were competing in another era maybe they flex and levrone and even ray would have at least one sandow. Sometimes it's just not meant to be.

[njflex]

Yup 06 Coleman was torn up 07 worst
His bad looked bad he won't ok from the front on 06

he just fell apart bodyparts just melted into lumps .seperation gone in some area's,,,when sergio came back in 80's same thing the 'myth'was gone ,,he was big but not in a stage build anymore,,,coleman 95/99 big,crisp,detail,freak,shape,density to the 9's,,,,early 2000's he got too big lost a step then later we saw...

[erics]

he just fell apart bodyparts just melted into lumps .seperation gone in some area's,,,when sergio came back in 80's same thing the 'myth'was gone ,,he was big but not in a stage build anymore,,,coleman 95/99 big,crisp,detail,freak,shape,density to the 9's,,,,early 2000's he got too big lost a step then later we saw...

Yes, but the problem was that the judges didn't penalise Ronnie for these flaws.

And if they 'did', there is no way of knowing through the way they score competitors.

[mesmorph78]

he just fell apart bodyparts just melted into lumps .seperation gone in some area's,,,when sergio came back in 80's same thing the 'myth'was gone ,,he was big but not in a stage build anymore,,,coleman 95/99 big,crisp,detail,freak,shape,density to the 9's,,,,early 2000's he got too big lost a step then later we saw...

2000 is when he started to decline....
he still was far ahead 03 04 05
but if i was a judge he would get penalised for that gut.... but then man others had it too....
bodybuilders just try to carry to much size.... at the cost of shape.... and lines

[doriancutlerman]

2000 is when he started to decline....
he still was far ahead 03 04 05
but if i was a judge he would get penalised for that gut.... but then man others had it too....
bodybuilders just try to carry to much size.... at the cost of shape.... and lines

I guess 2000 was the start of his decline.  His stomach was a bit bloated that year.

Nonetheless, I actually liked the way he looked in 2000.  He was definitely not as cut as in 98/99, but he added some size that gave him even more "pop" than he had the previous year. 

I would say the 2001 Olympia was actually the first sign Ronster was aging out.  He was about the same size he was the previous year but holding more water and even smoother, which is why Jay was able to push him a little bit. 

I thought he was done in 2002.  I know you and I disagree about this, but I would've not only given the '02 Olympia to Gunter, I think Gunter definitely won that year's SOS.  Ronnie had filled out a bunch for the SOS, but a fair amount of that gain went straight to his gut.  That was the first time I remember seeing his posing trunks disappear between his obliques and hips.  Meanwhile, Gunter was still in good shape.  Prime Ronnie would've eaten Gunter for six meals a day, but 2002 was just not Ronnie's year.  He/Chadwick did something at the last minute to seriously screw him up, because shots of Coleman leading up to that show were among the best he'd EVER looked.  Huge all over, full, shredded ... I even remember Tom Prince sucking Ronnie's dick over those pics over at Mayhem Muscle, only to turn around and whine that "I couldn't believe it.  Ronnie was busting my balls onstage" when supposedly "natural" Tom did the Ironman weighing over 270       

God, Tom was such a prick then.  I remember he said if anyone wanted to move into his apartment complex, he'd want them to visit him first and run through the compulsories (coughcoughcough SCHMOE coughcough).  He also said he wanted to start a gym at which there'd literally be some stupid hole in the wall, and you could only train there if your arm didn't fit through it. 

Stupid fucker.  Danny Padilla would've never qualified, but he was ten times the bodybuilder Prince ever dreamed of.