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Author Topic: Lee Haney - the greatest Mr. O of all time!  (Read 10610 times)
Danjo
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« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2013, 09:04:54 AM »

Hanes had the perfect combo of conditioned mass and aestetics.
Maybe Lee could be their(Hanes) next spokesman..like Michael Jordan.. Grin
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« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2013, 09:11:04 AM »

i agree but yates in 92 was still not enough to beat haney at his best.. yates was only 3 pounds heavier in 92 than 91..

sure yates 93 was something else and i dont think haney could play the "extra" mass game in a good way as yates.. haney's great back was still kinda soft even at his very best under 250 lbs so if he had added more weigh i think he would have killed his condition..
yeah,,,i mean yates lats started to hang like haneys 93 on in fdb pose,haney had better waist and v taper..
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« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2013, 11:20:55 AM »

i agree but yates in 92 was still not enough to beat haney at his best.. yates was only 3 pounds heavier in 92 than 91..

sure yates 93 was something else and i dont think haney could play the "extra" mass game in a good way as yates.. haney's great back was still kinda soft even at his very best under 250 lbs so if he had added more weigh i think he would have killed his condition..
Bro how can you say that when he beat Haney in the prejudging the year before, that means the judges favored his physique already and a 3 lbs of improvement on ripped mass is enormous at this level of conditioning, furthemore you are forgetting that 3lb on scale does not translate to 3lb increase in muscle, more like 6-7lb increase considering he was way leaner in 92, he even explained why he gained so much in 93 and it was not that he gained so much in 1 year but he did it in 2 years but you just did not see it on the scale in 92 cause he over dieted, which means he was way leaner.

Also he was only 235 at the noc in 91 which means he came several lb heavier for the O so obviously there was some bloat there, certainly not as lean as 92 so your 3lb gain scenario means nothing.

Instead of claiming that Lee Haney`s 91 version would still beat a 92 Yates you should hold McWay`s position instead which is Haney might have improved too and with this argument I can not really say anything against cause it is a reasonable possibility but no way Haney`s 91 version beats Yates`s 92 version, NO WAY. The judges gave Haney the nod by a hair, not even a hair, a split hair so obviously any improvements, even marginal ones would have won the judges over, we are talking who the judges would have decided who would have won and clearly they would have decided Yates without a shadow(pun intended  Grin) of a doubt
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« Reply #78 on: March 14, 2013, 11:24:17 AM »

Nobody could see Yates making the drastic change he made from '92 to '93, either.

Why couldn't Haney make such a similar metamorphisis?

Age? Haney was only 3 years older than Yates.

Genetics? I'd say, at least, they're even there.

If Yates were bigger, I could see it. But, if Haney match him, size-wise, in '92, Haney would beat him again.

I stand corrected and you are right, there was a possibility Haney could have improved, unlikely after 8 olympias and givan the already dramatic improvements he made from 90 to 91), however still possible and any improvements on Haney`s behalf would have bested Yates in 92 I suppose.
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« Reply #79 on: March 14, 2013, 02:17:54 PM »

Bro how can you say that when he beat Haney in the prejudging the year before, that means the judges favored his physique already and a 3 lbs of improvement on ripped mass is enormous at this level of conditioning, furthemore you are forgetting that 3lb on scale does not translate to 3lb increase in muscle, more like 6-7lb increase considering he was way leaner in 92, he even explained why he gained so much in 93 and it was not that he gained so much in 1 year but he did it in 2 years but you just did not see it on the scale in 92 cause he over dieted, which means he was way leaner.

Also he was only 235 at the noc in 91 which means he came several lb heavier for the O so obviously there was some bloat there, certainly not as lean as 92 so your 3lb gain scenario means nothing.

Instead of claiming that Lee Haney`s 91 version would still beat a 92 Yates you should hold McWay`s position instead which is Haney might have improved too and with this argument I can not really say anything against cause it is a reasonable possibility but no way Haney`s 91 version beats Yates`s 92 version, NO WAY. The judges gave Haney the nod by a hair, not even a hair, a split hair so obviously any improvements, even marginal ones would have won the judges over, we are talking who the judges would have decided who would have won and clearly they would have decided Yates without a shadow(pun intended  Grin) of a doubt

^^^^^^

THANK YOU.

Haney knew he lost the muscularity round to Yates in '91.  He might be a good ole' boy from Spartanburg, but Lee's not so stupid as to review those scoresheets and think, "Hmm, well den, I guess I better gots to gets bigguh nest year!"  

The result of that would be a disaster.  He'd probably show up looking smooth and, if bigger than Dorian, only by a hair.  And if Lee decided to try and get leaner for the '92 Olympia while Dozzer was getting leaner AND bigger in the meantime ... eh.  Either way, I don't see it working out very well for Lee.  

I will be 35 in 13 days.  I freely admit that, apart from some of Lee's TV ads and a glimpse or two at his TV show, I don't remember the man as he was competing; I started lifting really seriously around the time Dorian took over.  But from all of the footage I've seen, stills and videos, and all of the old contest reports from the time (e.g., FLEX's report on the '93 Olympia, which all but flew off the page, hauled ass to England and figuratively blew Dorian's balls off), the consensus at the time was that '92 Dorian was a slight step up from Lee.  He didn't have Lee's retarded-huge pecs when standing relaxed (ironic, since Dorian was stronger than Lee in chest presses), but perhaps apart from the side-chest, Doz won the remainder of the compulsories vs. Lee's very best.  And in '93?  LOL.  Forget it.  Even FLEX magazine said Wheeler, if just a bit sharper, probably would've beaten Haney at the 1993 Olympia.  

(Aside:  I dunno about that.  If Lee showed up looking sloppy, he would've been out of the top six, easy.  But at this best?  I think he'd still be right there with Dorian.  Flex lost a tick of luster from his pro debut shows, even if he was far more shredded at the '93 Olympia than he'd be for any other.  I just don't think he had the size and presence to make himself stand out on a Dorian-Lee-Ken comparison.)




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« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2013, 02:26:00 PM »

^^^^^^

THANK YOU.

Haney knew he lost the muscularity round to Yates in '91.  He might be a good ole' boy from Spartanburg, but Lee's not so stupid as to review those scoresheets and think, "Hmm, well den, I guess I better gots to gets bigguh nest year!"  

The result of that would be a disaster.  He'd probably show up looking smooth and, if bigger than Dorian, only by a hair.  And if Lee decided to try and get leaner for the '92 Olympia while Dozzer was getting leaner AND bigger in the meantime ... eh.  Either way, I don't see it working out very well for Lee.  

I will be 35 in 13 days.  I freely admit that, apart from some of Lee's TV ads and a glimpse or two at his TV show, I don't remember the man as he was competing; I started lifting really seriously around the time Dorian took over.  But from all of the footage I've seen, stills and videos, and all of the old contest reports from the time (e.g., FLEX's report on the '93 Olympia, which all but flew off the page, hauled ass to England and figuratively blew Dorian's balls off), the consensus at the time was that '92 Dorian was a slight step up from Lee.  He didn't have Lee's retarded-huge pecs when standing relaxed (ironic, since Dorian was stronger than Lee in chest presses), but perhaps apart from the side-chest, Doz won the remainder of the compulsories vs. Lee's very best.  And in '93?  LOL.  Forget it.  Even FLEX magazine said Wheeler, if just a bit sharper, probably would've beaten Haney at the 1993 Olympia.  

(Aside:  I dunno about that.  If Lee showed up looking sloppy, he would've been out of the top six, easy.  But at this best?  I think he'd still be right there with Dorian.  Flex lost a tick of luster from his pro debut shows, even if he was far more shredded at the '93 Olympia than he'd be for any other.  I just don't think he had the size and presence to make himself stand out on a Dorian-Lee-Ken comparison.)



You couldn't have missed much. Dorian took over only a year after Haney beat him in 1991.
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« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2013, 02:35:14 PM »

I stand corrected and you are right, there was a possibility Haney could have improved, unlikely after 8 olympias and givan the already dramatic improvements he made from 90 to 91), however still possible and any improvements on Haney`s behalf would have bested Yates in 92 I suppose.

Well, remember that Haney's improvements from 90-91 were a result of removing the drug test.  

And people always talk about, "Oh, Haney was so young when he retired; if he kept training, took X, Y and Z, I bet he could have ... "

Setting aside the fact that's all idle speculation, Haney -- JUST LIKE DORIAN AND RONNIE -- had probably maxed out his frame and would never as look good beyond about the 255ish mark.  Dozzer was best at 255-260, tops.  Ronnie was golden at as "little" as 244 at the ASC, 248 for the '98 Olympia and 254ish at the '99 Olympia.  Haney was arguably at his best in the '86 grand prix shows and '91 Olympia, weighing anywhere between ~238 and 247 IIRC.

Lee had plenty of time to "grow" between 1986 and 1991.  Oddly enough, in the pictures I've seen, he looked more impressive at the earlier show.  Did he just sit around and jerk off for all of those years, or what?  Roll Eyes  Bullshit.  He'd pushed his frame as far as his lifting, genetics and medicine chest would allow.

And I don't buy this nonsense about Dorian et al. having access to fancy drugs, peptides and/or megadosing where Lee didn't.  Lee got out of the game early because he was sick of abusing his system with tons upon tons of shit.  (Ever heard that Lee REALLY loved Anadrol?  From what I gather, it's true Wink .)  And yes, he knew how to use gH.  To my knowledge, the only thing he did not do is fuck about with insulin, and that's what took our Dorians, Ronnies, Ruehls and such and made them into 270 lb. ogres.

I'm with Rob Schuh's opinion from way back:  Dorian would have whipped Lee in '92, but Lee never would've done the show because he knew he probably couldn't win.  He gave it his all to end on a positive note and knew trying to improve on that would not only likely make him sick, he'd lose anyway.  

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« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2013, 02:43:39 PM »

sorry clarify on a physique level ,yates was known for one of the best backs haney too ,haney in that shot maybe yates is not in full spread is being beat there,fdb which both there arme were never great ,again haney flow is better ,score card in know had it different but picture's show haney was great that yr,even his legs were sharpest,driest he ever had them.

no yates had a problem in one of his lats during this contest.. i had the video and whenever he was hitting the RLS one of his lats was not fully spread.. i think someone here said it was a nerve problem or so..
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« Reply #83 on: March 14, 2013, 02:52:12 PM »

Bro how can you say that when he beat Haney in the prejudging the year before, that means the judges favored his physique already and a 3 lbs of improvement on ripped mass is enormous at this level of conditioning, furthemore you are forgetting that 3lb on scale does not translate to 3lb increase in muscle, more like 6-7lb increase considering he was way leaner in 92, he even explained why he gained so much in 93 and it was not that he gained so much in 1 year but he did it in 2 years but you just did not see it on the scale in 92 cause he over dieted, which means he was way leaner.

Also he was only 235 at the noc in 91 which means he came several lb heavier for the O so obviously there was some bloat there, certainly not as lean as 92 so your 3lb gain scenario means nothing.

Instead of claiming that Lee Haney`s 91 version would still beat a 92 Yates you should hold McWay`s position instead which is Haney might have improved too and with this argument I can not really say anything against cause it is a reasonable possibility but no way Haney`s 91 version beats Yates`s 92 version, NO WAY. The judges gave Haney the nod by a hair, not even a hair, a split hair so obviously any improvements, even marginal ones would have won the judges over, we are talking who the judges would have decided who would have won and clearly they would have decided Yates without a shadow(pun intended  Grin) of a doubt

yes i agree with you that logically the judges of the olympia would make yates of 92 beat haney of 91.. it was going to be very close still..

i see that way between yates 92 and haney 91:

haney better in the FDB, FLS, SC
yates better in the RDB, RLS, ST

not sure about the abs/t.. have to check pics. of yates 92 again..
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« Reply #84 on: March 14, 2013, 02:57:44 PM »

yates want even close to haney, someone post a before prime ronnie before he blew up maybe like 2001, vs a prime haney when they both weighed about 250
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« Reply #85 on: March 14, 2013, 02:58:50 PM »

Yates was still different in 92, not much but still enough to beat any version of Haney, he was even leaner in 92 and had bigger shoulder and a slightly bigger back. Those improvement were enough especially since he won the entire prejudging the year before, like him or hate but the judges loved him and that is all that counts, Haney would never have won after 1991.

I think when the judges looked at the pre-judging tape in 91, they realized they made a mistake. Haney's muscle maturity was leaps and bounds better than Yates. I think the judges wanted someone to beat Haney who basically like Ray kept bringing the same package. But that package was still better than anyone's on stage. So they fixed their mistake at the night show. I think 92 would have been close.
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« Reply #86 on: March 14, 2013, 03:07:58 PM »

Well, remember that Haney's improvements from 90-91 were a result of removing the drug test.  

And people always talk about, "Oh, Haney was so young when he retired; if he kept training, took X, Y and Z, I bet he could have ... "

Setting aside the fact that's all idle speculation, Haney -- JUST LIKE DORIAN AND RONNIE -- had probably maxed out his frame and would never as look good beyond about the 255ish mark.  Dozzer was best at 255-260, tops.  Ronnie was golden at as "little" as 244 at the ASC, 248 for the '98 Olympia and 254ish at the '99 Olympia.  Haney was arguably at his best in the '86 grand prix shows and '91 Olympia, weighing anywhere between ~238 and 247 IIRC.

Lee had plenty of time to "grow" between 1986 and 1991.  Oddly enough, in the pictures I've seen, he looked more impressive at the earlier show.  Did he just sit around and jerk off for all of those years, or what?  Roll Eyes  Bullshit.  He'd pushed his frame as far as his lifting, genetics and medicine chest would allow.

And I don't buy this nonsense about Dorian et al. having access to fancy drugs, peptides and/or megadosing where Lee didn't.  Lee got out of the game early because he was sick of abusing his system with tons upon tons of shit.  (Ever heard that Lee REALLY loved Anadrol?  From what I gather, it's true Wink .)  And yes, he knew how to use gH.  To my knowledge, the only thing he did not do is fuck about with insulin, and that's what took our Dorians, Ronnies, Ruehls and such and made them into 270 lb. ogres.

I'm with Rob Schuh's opinion from way back:  Dorian would have whipped Lee in '92, but Lee never would've done the show because he knew he probably couldn't win.  He gave it his all to end on a positive note and knew trying to improve on that would not only likely make him sick, he'd lose anyway.  



But if Lee used insulin like Dorian and Momo were using, why couldn't he have been 270 on stage?
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« Reply #87 on: March 14, 2013, 03:23:08 PM »

Lee was a great bodybuilder, builds like that got a whole lot of guys from my generation into training, saying that the sport peaked in 93 with Flex shape at the Ironman Arnold and Yates shape at the olympia, the whole sport has been downhill from then including Ronnie, who was in no doubt the most muscular person ever, but not the best bodybuilder when you consider the old judging criteria, Ronnie's structure is far from perfect, in-fact he beat many guys with much better structure because the sport changed we were on our way down the shitty path that has resulted in todays over drugged bodies, where they  look like fat guys with muscles, the IFBB effectively killed and limited the marketability of the sport, people today, mainstream people would still like to see physiques from the arnold Haney era, just not the dorian ronnie era, whether it was more drugs or genetics the generation of muscle obesity started and now days they all look like s.hi.t
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« Reply #88 on: March 14, 2013, 07:43:46 PM »

Lee was a great bodybuilder, builds like that got a whole lot of guys from my generation into training, saying that the sport peaked in 93 with Flex shape at the Ironman Arnold and Yates shape at the olympia, the whole sport has been downhill from then including Ronnie, who was in no doubt the most muscular person ever, but not the best bodybuilder when you consider the old judging criteria, Ronnie's structure is far from perfect, in-fact he beat many guys with much better structure because the sport changed we were on our way down the shitty path that has resulted in todays over drugged bodies, where they  look like fat guys with muscles, the IFBB effectively killed and limited the marketability of the sport, people today, mainstream people would still like to see physiques from the arnold Haney era, just not the dorian ronnie era, whether it was more drugs or genetics the generation of muscle obesity started and now days they all look like s.hi.t
coleman built a sick amount of size/thickness in certain parts never seen and conditioned,,but you see now and his early football pics and even early training photos ,,a narrowish drooped shoulder,droopy pec,4 pack,that grew cartoonish to diminish those genetic flaws ,,plenty of guys were prettier to look at,or had great shape  but he outmuscled them tenfold...
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« Reply #89 on: March 14, 2013, 07:55:56 PM »

Lee was a great bodybuilder, builds like that got a whole lot of guys from my generation into training, saying that the sport peaked in 93 with Flex shape at the Ironman Arnold and Yates shape at the olympia, the whole sport has been downhill from then including Ronnie, who was in no doubt the most muscular person ever, but not the best bodybuilder when you consider the old judging criteria, Ronnie's structure is far from perfect, in-fact he beat many guys with much better structure because the sport changed we were on our way down the shitty path that has resulted in todays over drugged bodies, where they  look like fat guys with muscles, the IFBB effectively killed and limited the marketability of the sport, people today, mainstream people would still like to see physiques from the arnold Haney era, just not the dorian ronnie era, whether it was more drugs or genetics the generation of muscle obesity started and now days they all look like s.hi.t

i agree for the most part, except that "mainstream people would still like to see physiques form the arnold Haney era"... the "mainstream people" of today would think he was just another steroid freak.  the cat is out of the bag, bodybuilding is dead.
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« Reply #90 on: March 14, 2013, 07:57:13 PM »

I like dorian, but in reality he is no where near or on the level as lee haney and ronnie coleman
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« Reply #91 on: March 15, 2013, 01:09:55 AM »

coleman built a sick amount of size/thickness in certain parts never seen and conditioned,,but you see now and his early football pics and even early training photos ,,a narrowish drooped shoulder,droopy pec,4 pack,that grew cartoonish to diminish those genetic flaws ,,plenty of guys were prettier to look at,or had great shape  but he outmuscled them tenfold...

Honest and you are pretty much summing it up, back in the day outmuscling people wasn't enough, otherwise Grymko would have a few sandows
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« Reply #92 on: March 15, 2013, 01:39:32 AM »

TL, DR. Serge Nubret for the win:

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« Reply #93 on: March 15, 2013, 03:06:08 AM »

i agree for the most part, except that "mainstream people would still like to see physiques form the arnold Haney era"... the "mainstream people" of today would think he was just another steroid freak.  the cat is out of the bag, bodybuilding is dead.

That's right.

For the average person, large muscles, no matter how aesthetic, are freaky.

If you want classical physiques, you need the IFBB to treat bodybuilding as a sport.
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« Reply #94 on: March 15, 2013, 06:54:07 AM »

Each era was a little worse than the one before.  GOAT list:  1. Arnold, 2. Lee,  3. Dorian, & 4. Ronnie
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« Reply #95 on: March 15, 2013, 07:58:35 AM »

TL, DR. Serge Nubret for the win:


this pic is insane,,unreal shape/proportion,,,,but coleman kinda had same look just larger naturally genetic base but he grew out and out till it looked like overblown sausage and now he has nowhere to go but down,,,got rest his soul serge looked incredible 50/60's ,,,coleman is toast,,,
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« Reply #96 on: March 15, 2013, 08:26:19 AM »

arnold had better arms and calves though . than lee . would he beat him . even though lee had better back
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« Reply #97 on: March 15, 2013, 09:39:47 AM »

TL, DR. Serge Nubret for the win:



Serge had a great physique

But did not pull off the compulsories as well as when standing in his signature poses, especially with arms away from the body, that's why there aren't many shots of those
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« Reply #98 on: March 15, 2013, 12:29:11 PM »

to me nubret was good to hide his flaws too . good pecs and midsection . did he ever squat . lee haney was good yes . in his time . a bit more arms . needed .
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« Reply #99 on: March 15, 2013, 12:55:34 PM »

I think when the judges looked at the pre-judging tape in 91, they realized they made a mistake. Haney's muscle maturity was leaps and bounds better than Yates. I think the judges wanted someone to beat Haney who basically like Ray kept bringing the same package. But that package was still better than anyone's on stage. So they fixed their mistake at the night show. I think 92 would have been close.
That was not their explanation though. their explanation was that Dorian's physique looks harder and drier in person, and the grainy look that does not show up in video and picture, this is why Yates won the prejudging and when you see pictures it did not look that way. People call BS but anyone that has seen yates in person knew about this look, very pleasing to the judges and 100's of people over the years have commented on this particular attribute. The fact is Yates and Haney were 1 hair apart in 91 and 92 had the same judging panels so if Yates had improved even slightly, which he did, then the judges would have giving him the win unless Haney improved as well.
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