How Can You Make Yourself Believe In a God.

[tu_holmes]

One would think but yet here I am in this position..............

I think you are thinking too hard about this.

Look at it this way... I've always said that if there's a god, he is not going to support you or judge you based on whether you believe in him. He is going to judge you based upon whether or not you treat your fellow man with dignity, compassion, and respect on a day to day basis.

He is not going to stop one day and say, "That damn BikiniSlut doesn't believe in me, so I'm not going to try to help her through her day." He's going to say, "That BikiniSlut is alright human, and is good to people around her, and for that, she is always going to get my help."

I think if you stop and look at what you want from your god, you will find that what you are looking for is already there.

[Man of Steel]

One would think but yet here I am in this position..............

You know, I won't be as arrogant to claim that I understand what you're going through because I really don't.  I do understand loss and pain in my own little part of the world, but I realize that others are experiencing far greater pain and strife than I ever have.  There are times when no amount of bootstrap pulling will suffice....I've been there.

I can assure you that God loves you dearly.....loves every fiber of who you are!  He desires for your to seek him and turn to him.  Know it or not, you are a child of God and that makes you precious in his eyes.  I'll certainly continue to pray for you and share with you, but I encourage you to pray and seek solace in his word.  loco left some great resources and suggestions yesterday.  I think ultimately I'd consider taking it to the Lord in prayer.  It may seem a bit ackward at first, but that's alright....nothing to be ashamed of.  It's these moments in life in which the world simply can't profer helpful advice and the only self-help that will truly bring change is that of humility and surrender before God.  If he can fix a big idiot like me he can certainly do a great work in your life as well!

I'll be thinking of you and praying for you.

God bless!!!

[Radical Plato]

I think you are thinking too hard about this.

Look at it this way... I've always said that if there's a god, he is not going to support you or judge you based on whether you believe in him. He is going to judge you based upon whether or not you treat your fellow man with dignity, compassion, and respect on a day to day basis.

He is not going to stop one day and say, "That damn BikiniSlut doesn't believe in me, so I'm not going to try to help her through her day." He's going to say, "That BikiniSlut is alright human, and is good to people around her, and for that, she is always going to get my help."

I think if you stop and look at what you want from your god, you will find that what you are looking for is already there.

I would have thought it was the other way around, if people treat others well and with goodwill, then they don't need God's help. I would have thought GOD would have directed his energies on to the arseholes and the evil people, since it is them that is causing all the problems.  JMO

[Butterbean]

Hi BS, I'm sorry you are having such a bad time right now.  Like loco said, some of us are praying for you.



I believe that if someone is truly seeking God, they will "find" Him.

Matthew 7:8
For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.


My suggestion is that you pray to God and ask Him to show you He is real.   I would do this continually if I were you and also like MOS and loco suggested, to read the book of John.  It's good...not boring at all    If you read it in "The Book" version it's like reading a regular book....but otherwise I like the New International Version as well.


And please use caution when listening to people describe "religions" other than their own, as they can be woefully misinformed.  ( Heck, even when people explain belief systems they accept as their own ---we can be misinformed on parts of those as well sometimes!  That helps to confirm that we should read The Bible (or other books that belief systems are based upon) ourselves and do our own research and not merely take others at their word 100% of the time.


BS, when you wonder if we are all there is have you ever wondered where we come from?  Our consciousness, our sense of right and wrong, etc?

There are a lot of old threads here you may find interesting.  As the conversation progresses I may bump some you might find interesting.

[loco]

Psalm 147:3
He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.

[B_B_C]

   It at times of crisis and uncertainty that I crave certainty. I doubt I am alone in this but  I can only speak for myself. The only certainty is uncertainty. But while there is constant change not every thing is changing at the same pace or time. What is fear but the unknown, for when I think about it, it still comes down to not knowing. I imagine all religions teach this but many of their advocates prefer dwelling on / selling on the certainties, thus, I think, doing their respective theologies an injustice.  
   I have friend who almost always asks when a problem is encountered" How do we get around it" Its probably our own private clique at this stage as I tell her "you go through it". Its very simple but it is not easy. Over my life I have wasted huge amounts of time, labour, resources and most regretably of all, love in going around what ultimatly needed to be gone through.
   As for faith I can not see how it can be fixed for all time, secure in its certainty and beyond question. I do not think faith is possible without doubt. Most of my doubts are self doubts. History is littered with the bodies and lives of people given either in defiance of their own doubts or taken to satisfy the certainties of other lives.
   I have two existetial like fears that while not stalking my daily life are present in all I think and do. I fear change and I fear no change. But I believe that movement is a condition of life so as long as things change i am alive. Nobody said or guaranteed the changes would be welcome.
   Look, own and honour your own doubts and fears, learn through painful self acceptance that there are things events and more importantly people beyond your power and control. Very simple but not easy (now for the  final pompous bit ): go forth with  love for your self and others

[Man of Steel]

   It at times of crisis and uncertainty that I crave certainty. I doubt I am alone in this but  I can only speak for myself. The only certainty is uncertainty. But while there is constant change not every thing is changing at the same pace or time. What is fear but the unknown, for when I think about it, it still comes down to not knowing. I imagine all religions teach this but many of their advocates prefer dwelling on / selling on the certainties, thus, I think, doing their respective theologies an injustice. 
   I have friend who almost always asks when a problem is encountered" How do we get around it" Its probably our own private clique at this stage as I tell her "you go through it". Its very simple but it is not easy. Over my life I have wasted huge amounts of time, labour, resources and most regretably of all, love in going around what ultimatly needed to be gone through.
   As for faith I can not see how it can be fixed for all time, secure in its certainty and beyond question. I do not think faith is possible without doubt. Most of my doubts are self doubts. History is littered with the bodies and lives of people given either in defiance of their own doubts or taken to satisfy the certainties of other lives.
   I have two existetial like fears that while not stalking my daily life are present in all I think and do. I fear change and I fear no change. But I believe that movement is a condition of life so as long as things change i am alive. Nobody said or guaranteed the changes would be welcome.
   Look, own and honour your own doubts and fears, learn through painful self acceptance that there are things events and more importantly people beyond your power and control. Very simple but not easy (now for the  final pompous bit ): go forth with  love for your self and others

I think you make good points overall and I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying because for those folks that live their lives with no type of faith in God they must face life head on and alone (for the most part). 

What I've personally experienced is that through faith in God the trials of life don't have to be faced alone.   From a perspective of unbelief, faith is merely a notion or a concept with no substance or genuine merit and often casually dismissed (I understand that).  When an unbeliever proactively takes steps to engage in faith and the Lord reveals the reality of himself to them the simple notion transforms into a concrete assurance.  As I noted earlier in this thread, for a nonbeliever faith is a definite leap, but for a believer faith transforms into full assurance in the heart.  It’s that leap that bridges the gap between doubt and assurance and the bridge is founded upon the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers. The presence of the Lord himself made manifest and tangible in the lives of believers worldwide.  As believers we become the greatest the body of proof for God and ironically the most ridiculed proof for God.  As believers we remain ridiculed because those remaining in unbelief have not yet (and may never) proactively and individually engage in a faithful pursuit of belief and will therefore never change their notion of faith to full assurance in the heart.   

[syntaxmachine]

The above post wreaks of misogyny and know-it-all ness

Nothing of what I've said implies anything about women in particular; I would've said the same thing to a man sharing similar thoughts.

The notion of the trinity is quite literally logically incoherent if construed in terms of identity. Those who subscribe to the doctrine tend to de-emphasize logic in this context. Yet, elsewhere they will (attempt to) adhere to logic in positing arguments for their belief -- trying to have one's cake and eat it, in other words.

All I want is to believe in a higher power......the religion is of no consequence to me at this point. I am most familiar with Christianity but again, the religion does not matter.

I just hate thinking that "I" am it or that humans in general are it.

OK, you're clearly bent on this mission of yours independent of coherent considerations. Good luck, I guess.

The presence of the Lord himself made manifest and tangible in the lives of believers worldwide.  As believers we become the greatest the body of proof for God and ironically the most ridiculed proof for God. 

I'm afraid you may not know what the word 'proof' means.

Putting that issue on ice, if indeed Christians instantiated the property of some form of unity with the creator of the universe, we might reasonably expect some objective indication of such. What do you think it is about the behavior of believers that indicates oneness with God? There certainly isn't any indication when it comes to rates of crime, levels of intelligence, contributions to understanding the world via science, or tendency to ask for one's money -- all these indicators point towards believers being either worse off or in the same boat as everyone else.

Also, what is your response to persons of a different faith who present the same argument against you which you have now hoisted upon us (e.g., "Us believers are the greatest proof of Allah -- not Jesus -- made manifest")?

[Man of Steel]

I'm afraid you may not know what the word 'proof' means.  

Putting that issue on ice, if indeed Christians instantiated the property of some form of unity with the creator of the universe, we might reasonably expect some objective indication of such. What do you think it is about the behavior of believers that indicates oneness with God? There certainly isn't any indication when it comes to rates of crime, levels of intelligence, contributions to understanding the world via science, or tendency to ask for one's money -- all these indicators point towards believers being either worse off or in the same boat as everyone else.

Also, what is your response to persons of a different faith who present the same argument against you which you have now hoisted upon us (e.g., "Us believers are the greatest proof of Allah -- not Jesus -- made manifest")?

Hey syntaxmachine…..long time no speak!  Hope the new week is treatin you alright and that your continuing to build big muscles!  Hit us with a pic stud!  

LOL, well, amazing as it is I do understand what proof means.  

A relationship with Christ is personal so there isn’t a specific “pre belief” demonstration available to nonbelievers other than the accounts of those within the bible, the millions of testimonies of believers today, the early non-biblical literature validating Christ and biblical events therein,  the historical and archeological support for the bible, the volume of bibilical manuscripts, etc……essentially everything you probably already know.  Christ demonstrated his divinity for a few years while here with us on earth and even then some of those that witnessed this demonstration did not believe.   That said, we know that for some there isn’t sufficient evidence or justification for giving your life to Christ.  Still, the proof I speak of is specific to the individual, but available to all.  In a personal sense, the revelation of Christ comes after the nonbeliever desiring to surrender his life to Christ accepts Christ as Lord and Savior and is filled with the Holy Spirit.  I wish I could simply touch others and allow them to experience and feel what I do, but unfortunately God wants the individual to choose him and therefore it’s up to each person to make a choice about Christ.  I can do nothing more than share my beliefs and what I’ve experienced and help out as best I can…..the rest is up to the individual making the decision about Christ.  Some will say it’s all hogwash and leave it at that and others will continue on their path towards Christ.   All the other biblical support is great, all the theological debate is great, but the most awesome proof for me is found in the indwelling of Holy Spirit.  It’s the unique, undeniable proof available only to followers of Christ that confirmed for me that God is real and makes me want to proclaim “Thank you Lord that you are real!  I know it, I love you and I want to tell others about you and surrender my life to your will.”

What do I think about Hindus and their connection with Vishnu or Krishna?  Muslims and their connection with Allah?  Mormons and their connection with God and their ultimate desire to become gods themselves?   I can neither speak to what others are feeling when they engage in their particular belief system nor will I insult it, but I can tell you that many former Hindus, Muslims, Mormoms, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Satanists today that have left their old religions and given their lives to Christ and have been filled with the Holy Spirit have expressed that what they once engaged in now seems empty and silly since the Holy Spirit has filled every fiber of who they are and confirmed the reality of God for them.  In short, they finally understand the truth of God and denied the false ones.  

And what of those that left Christ and took up another religion instead and are 100 times happier without Christ?  We’re all human beings and we can all be misled or venture down a path that pulls us from our faith in Christ…it happens (happened to me!).  For some Christians that have left Christ we know they were simply nominal Christians and never truly left Christ since they never had him to begin with (this is me to a tee!).   For those folks that leave Christ my heart hurts for them, but it doesn’t change who Christ is and what he’s done for us.   Maybe one day they’ll return.

Nothing I’ve said here is mind blowing or life changing, but it’s still the truth and able to be validated by anyone that honestly and humbly seeks Christ in their life.

[Migs]

I am not one that normally posts on this board.  I have been through things that , at the time seemed insurmountable.  As if there was no escape.  I have one sister who works at a church and is "born again."  I have always been of the more logical mind.  I have known many that find strength/peace/comfort through religion and belief in something greater.  To me it seemed more of a "let me just give into passing off my problems to something else" rather than taking a time out and letting things settle.  I had started to read the bible, went to several different churches to see how it felt and experience things I was possibly missing out on.  I can't buy into much of the religious dogma, and that if you aren't this or that you are going to hell.  For me when things are tough I look to what I have done, try to find my potential and look at the people that surround me (family, friends).  I find what I am looking for more there, than from an ethereal entity.  Know some of the uber religious right will say that God surrounded you with those people etc.  Perhaps, I don't know.  But I have seen so much pain in others, in the world, the hate that religion can bring and the best explanation I hear is "God works in mysterious ways."  Sorry but that's not good enough.  I could care less about religion. I care more about doing the better & right thing.  Anyway, it's my two cents, maybe only worth one.  Don't actively try to look for something.  Butters is right, it will find you if it's meant to be. 

[Butterbean]

I am not one that normally posts on this board.  I have been through things that , at the time seemed insurmountable.  As if there was no escape.  I have one sister who works at a church and is "born again."  I have always been of the more logical mind.  I have known many that find strength/peace/comfort through religion and belief in something greater.  To me it seemed more of a "let me just give into passing off my problems to something else" rather than taking a time out and letting things settle.  I had started to read the bible, went to several different churches to see how it felt and experience things I was possibly missing out on.  I can't buy into much of the religious dogma, and that if you aren't this or that you are going to hell.  For me when things are tough I look to what I have done, try to find my potential and look at the people that surround me (family, friends).  I find what I am looking for more there, than from an ethereal entity.  Know some of the uber religious right will say that God surrounded you with those people etc.  Perhaps, I don't know.  But I have seen so much pain in others, in the world, the hate that religion can bring and the best explanation I hear is "God works in mysterious ways."  Sorry but that's not good enough.  I could care less about religion. I care more about doing the better & right thing.  Anyway, it's my two cents, maybe only worth one.  Don't actively try to look for something.  Butters is right, it will find you if it's meant to be.  

Hi Miggles!  I do believe that if BS "seeks (God) she will find."  I also believe that even our faith is a gift from God and that He gives to those who He knows would truly want to believe.  And as you know I hope that includes you some day.

I also agree that man-made "religions" have caused a ton of pain and suffering. Christianity's (which I do not believe is man made) main theme is know Christ as Savior and help others.  But as fallible humans we can screw anything up.

[Man of Steel]

Hi Miggles!  I do believe that if BS "seeks (God) she will find."  I also believe that even our faith is a gift from God and that He gives to those who He knows would truly want to believe.  And as you know I hope that includes you some day.

I also agree that man-made "religions" have caused a ton of pain and suffering. Christianity's (which I do not believe is man made) main theme is know Christ as Savior and help others.

You know I don't often consider the idea that "faith is a gift", but I can see your point.  

I'm always looking at the other side of the coin.  For example, I've been asked the question, "Why would God harden pharoah's heart?"  Much like faith being a gift in that God knows those people he can entrust his gift of faith with and that those people will respond to his will for their lives appropriately, God also knows those that will not choose him regardless of circumstance.  I believe that's pharoah's case....God already knew that pharoah would reject him regardless of future circumstance so he used pharoah to display his glory for all others to see and to establish his chosen people (Israelites).  

Does this mean that our free will is meaningless because God foreknows our choices?   I don't believe so at all....foreknowledge does not mean the choices have been made for us.  Many posit that God could create any number of universes to satisfy a specific circumstance, but I believe he has created the perfect universe already using his foreknowledge of our future free choices.  He fashioned the world in such a way that our choices would be upheld and he didn't force us to choose one way or another (one exception in that we do have to choose whether to accept or reject God).  Yes, his foreknowledge comes before the actual free choices we make, but his creation was contingent upon those future free choices and was perfectly fashioned to uphold them.

Sorry, a little tangent LOL.