Author Topic: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression  (Read 2119 times)

24KT

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2013, 06:35:37 AM »
why are "Liberals/leftists/socialists/communists" protecting bondholders at the expence of depositholders and taxpayers?

LOL, You ARE new here!  :D

Don't bother asking a reasonable question of 333, ...not when it comes to the left.
The only response you're going to get is some variant of "I HATE OBAMA" ::) ::) ::)
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B_B_C

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2013, 06:42:17 AM »
LOL, You ARE new here!  :D

Don't bother asking a reasonable question of 333, ...not when it comes to the left.
The only response you're going to get is some variant of "I HATE OBAMA" ::) ::) ::)

I believe he should be affoarded every oportunity of receiving reasonable and mainly intelligent questions. Whither he choses or is able to answer them with honesty and intelligence is entirely with in his remit. (correcting my spelling is just correction , not a display of intellegence)
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B_B_C

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2013, 06:51:47 AM »
What are bonds issued for and useful for vs  money sitting in deposit accounts? 
There is your answer. 

It used to be only cute hoor kerrymen gave questions as answers

A bond is the same as a deposit in that neither are shares. Both collect annual interest payments though each have different withdrawl mechanisms. Bonds are long term deposits and as practiced in recent yearsget greater protetion than small deposit accounts, shareholders and tax payers. Amid all the hooha of what the Cypriets did (and the detail was left up to them as it was they who wanted the money) it seems not to have been noticed that it is still small depositors shareholders and taxpayers that take the sting.

In properly working lending arrangements the lender should pay for his incompetent lending just as the borrower should pay for their incompetent borrowing
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24KT

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2013, 11:04:51 PM »
It used to be only cute hoor kerrymen gave questions as answers

A bond is the same as a deposit in that neither are shares. Both collect annual interest payments though each have different withdrawl mechanisms. Bonds are long term deposits and as practiced in recent yearsget greater protetion than small deposit accounts, shareholders and tax payers. Amid all the hooha of what the Cypriets did (and the detail was left up to them as it was they who wanted the money) it seems not to have been noticed that it is still small depositors shareholders and taxpayers that take the sting.

In properly working lending arrangements the lender should pay for his incompetent lending just as the borrower should pay for their incompetent borrowing

Throughout this entire economic fiasco, it has always been the savers & taxpayers footing the bill whether they realized it or not. Some are aware they are paying the price via a policy of artificially low interest rates, bailouts & QE currency debasement, but this time, it was in their face.  When it comes to lowering interest rates, they can only go to negative rates, ...until they rise and completely destroy bond issuers.

What's really disgusting is I understand Russia's Gaz Prom had offered to bailout Cyprus in exchange for gas exploration rights off the coast of Cyprus, but Cyprus refused preferring the bailout to come from inside the EU. This also calls into question whether a previous multi-billion $ loan from Russia to Cyprus will be extended. Despite this 'supposed solution' they could find themselves in the same position.
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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2013, 03:32:53 AM »
LOL, Looks like there an equivalent of the "Drinking With Bob" guy in every country.  ;D

So who is more pissed off? USA's Drinking With Bob, or the UK's Chunky Mark?

The Great Cyprus Bank Robbery by Financial Terrorists

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Bad Boy Dazza

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2013, 05:48:41 AM »
Obama Reid Cuntlosi just got a new idea from these criminals.

Dude, Obama is only the puppet of the bankers.  He is a mock president.

B_B_C

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2013, 06:06:32 AM »
Throughout this entire economic fiasco, it has always been the savers & taxpayers footing the bill whether they realized it or not. Some are aware they are paying the price via a policy of artificially low interest rates, bailouts & QE currency debasement, but this time, it was in their face.  When it comes to lowering interest rates, they can only go to negative rates, ...until they rise and completely destroy bond issuers.What's really disgusting is I understand Russia's Gaz Prom had offered to bailout Cyprus in exchange for gas exploration rights off the coast of Cyprus, but Cyprus refused preferring the bailout to come from inside the EU. This also calls into question whether a previous multi-billion $ loan from Russia to Cyprus will be extended. Despite this 'supposed solution' they could find themselves in the same position.

history suggests most people are more confortable with inflation rather than deflation particularly when some prices never/ rarely go down. As for Cyrpus it hasnt't made the best of its EU membership over the years. It opposed all efforts at reaching an accomodation with the Turkish north part of the Island, it allowed it self to become a money laundering and tax avoidance country.  It also seems to have not reacted quickly or effeciently enough to its massive exposure to the Greek debt and perhaps it ignored the groundswell of hostility in other countries to bailing out (lending) hot , tax avoiding mainly Russian depositers (and substancial amounts of British it seems)
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GigantorX

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2013, 06:41:19 AM »
It's a trail balloon for future actions.

James28

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2013, 11:05:05 AM »
This is fucking disgusting what happened. I don't usually get riled up and angry over politics and banks but this hit a nerve. It's unapologetic thievery of the highest highest order. Blatant crookery of the likes I've never seen before. Does democracy mean nothing to these c/unts? What, stealing from your own population is now ok?

Boy, the fucking wailing and media machine in full swing had all of us taxpayers suddenly decided to withhold 10% of our income tax.

How can these parasites look at themselves in the mirror and not throw up!
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24KT

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2013, 04:55:51 PM »
It's a trail balloon for future actions.

Yep, that's EXACTLY what it is. It's a trial balloon, that they WILL roll out globally, regardless of how well it goes down in Cyprus. They'll simply tweak it a bit to ensure no money escapes their grasp, ...whether it be a combination of more inflation, or euphemisms like "negative interest rates."

As for that crap about Cyprus being a money laundering centre for Russians.... So what?
WHO was letting them do it? Does this justify stealing from the general public?
If so, ...watch out. That line of logic could get you 25 years behind bars, ...after all, there are a lot of drug dealers in the US, ...so lets punish all the citizens by putting every man, woman, and child behind bars? ::)  ::)

I didn't see them making any moves on HSBC, or Deutschbanke... entities that have admitted to money laundering. This is simply a deliberate attack on Russia. Make no mistake about it, WWIII has started, and financial instruments are the WMD's of choice, ...for now.

Back in November 2011, right after the MF Global theft, I predicted they would start doing this to people's bank accounts... Blatant outright theft. It has started and despite all rhetoric to the contrary, WILL BE rolled out globally. Already they are talking about stealing 15% from bank accounts in Italy.

Despite Cypriot politicians changing their minds, ...the EU is saying they're still going ahead with it.
If this can occur in Cyprus of all places, ...it can and WILL occur elsewhere.

Folks, the reality of the matter is, these are simply the new Global Currency Trends ...  :D

Gerald Celente: Cyprus Looting is only the Beginning

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GigantorX

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2013, 08:28:39 AM »
This isn't the last time you will see this and it will most likely be pushed in the U.S. in the near future. Whether by direct account theft or having the government convert retirement accounts/pensions/savings etc. to buying U.S. treasuries. Something along those lines.

Even though it failed in Cyprus I'm sure it was floated in because either outcome was planned for and will be used to further the agenda. These people and these totalitarianism will not simply give up and go home and say "Well, we tried!" Nope, just look at the centralized state that Europe has become.

24KT

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2013, 12:39:00 PM »
This isn't the last time you will see this and it will most likely be pushed in the U.S. in the near future. Whether by direct account theft or having the government convert retirement accounts/pensions/savings etc. to buying U.S. treasuries. Something along those lines.

It's already happening covertly. While the debt ceiling has been suspended, they are on a spending spree pillaging social security. Screw the sequester, the money spigot is still on full tilt. The sequester is just a stunt.

Quote
Even though it failed in Cyprus I'm sure it was floated in because either outcome was planned for and will be used to further the agenda. These people and these totalitarianism will not simply give up and go home and say "Well, we tried!" Nope, just look at the centralized state that Europe has become.

It hasn't yet failed in Cyprus. Everyone is talking about a potential 3 - 13% theft, but everyone is failing to realize thus far it has been a complete and total 100% theft. Cypriots STILL do not have access to their money, bank machines have been emptied to prevent withdrawals, online transfers have been blocked, and the banks are still not open for business.

This is going to spread all over Europe. Other countries within the eurozone like italy for instance were forced to borrow at 6% to buy Greek bonds at 3%, and we all know the greeks are never going to pay on those bonds anyway.

Now Cyprus is in talks with Russia for a bailout, ...either that or joining the Eurasian block and dipping into pensions. What they should do is follow the same path that Iceland took.

What so frightening in all of this is the Cyprus represents such a teeny, tiny fraction of European GDP, yet such a small fraction (less than 1%) can have such an impact on the entire eurozone. If Cyprus leaves the Euro, others will do the same and the whole think comes crashing down.
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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2013, 02:04:24 PM »
Cyprus seeks Russian rescue, EU threatens cutoff

By Michele Kambas and Lidia Kelly
NICOSIA/MOSCOW | Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:53pm EDT

(Reuters) - Cyprus ordered banks to stay shut until next week as the government scrambled on Wednesday to avert a financial meltdown after rejecting the terms of a bailout from the European Union and turning instead to Russia for a lifeline.

"We don't have days or weeks, we have only hours to save our country," Averos Neophytou, deputy leader of the ruling party Democratic Rally, told reporters as crisis talks in Nicosia dragged into the evening. Banks are to stay shut for the rest of the week and so not reopen till Tuesday after a holiday weekend.

With Finance Minister Michael Sarris in Moscow, Russia's finance ministry said Cyprus had sought a further 5 billion euros, on top of a five-year extension and lower interest on an existing 2.5-billion euro loan from Moscow. Russia has a special interest, since many of its citizens keep savings in Cyprus.

In a vote on Tuesday, the island's tiny legislature threw out a proposed tax on bank deposits in exchange for a 10-billion euro bailout from the EU, a stunning rejection of the kind of strict austerity accepted over the past three years by crisis-hit Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Italy.

Facing the prospect of a run on banks, a government official said lenders would remain shut on Thursday and Friday, leaving next Tuesday, March 26, the next normal working day. Greece said Greek branches of Cypriot banks would also stay shut there.

Businesses in Cyprus are already feeling the pinch, with people reduced to limited withdrawals from cash machines. The island's banking sector has been crippled by its exposure to bigger neighbor Greece, where Europe's debt crisis began.

The European Central Bank's chief negotiator on Cyprus, Joerg Asmussen, said the ECB would have to pull the plug on Cypriot banks unless the country took a bailout quickly.

"We can provide emergency liquidity only to solvent banks and ... the solvency of Cypriot banks cannot be assumed if an aid program is not agreed on soon, which would allow for a quick recapitalization of the banking sector," Asmussen told German weekly Die Zeit in an interview late on Tuesday.

Cypriots had balked at EU demands for a levy on bank deposits to raise 5.8 billion euros, an unprecedented measure that opponents said would have violated the principle behind an EU-wide guarantee on deposits of up to 100,000 euros.

Cyprus Energy Minister George Lakkotrypis was also in Moscow, officially for a tourism exhibition, but fuelling talk that access to untapped offshore gas reserves could be on the table as part of a deal for Russian aid.

"NO OFFERS"

"We had a very honest discussion. We've underscored how difficult the situation is," Sarris told reporters after talks with his Russian counterpart Anton Siluanov in Moscow.

"We'll now continue our discussion to find the solution by which we hope we will be getting some support," he said.

"There were no offers, nothing concrete."

Moscow has its own interests in ensuring the survival of banks in Cyprus, a haven for billions of euros squirreled abroad by Russian businesses and individuals - a factor, too, in the reluctance of Germany and other northern euro zone states to bail out Cypriots without a contribution from bank depositors.

Speculation was rife over the shape Russian help might take. Government spokesman Christos Stylianides denied a Greek media report that Cyprus had reached a deal for Russian investors to buy the island's second largest bank, Cyprus Popular, which was taken over by the state last year.

The proposed levy on deposits would have taken nearly 10 percent from accounts over 100,000 euros. Smaller accounts would also have been hit, although the government proposed softening the blow to spare savers with less than 20,000 euros.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose country is Europe's main paymaster, said it was up to the Cypriot government to come up with an alternative proposal but it was fair to expect those with savings over 100,000 euros - the normal limit for state deposit insurance - to contribute to a bailout.

The EU has a track record of pressing smaller countries to vote again until they achieve the desired outcome.

Nicosia was eerily quiet on Wednesday, and there was evidence the bank closure was slowing trade.

"Things won't be so bad as long as people can withdraw from ATMs but if they go too there will be a huge problem," said Titos Pitsillides, 50. Several petrol stations were refusing credit cards, insisting on payment in cash.

Government spokesman Christos Stylianides said a "Plan B" was in the works.

President Nicos Anastasiades, a conservative elected just last month with a mandate to secure a bailout, held meetings with party leaders, his cabinet and officials from the "troika" of lenders from the EU, ECB and International Monetary Fund.

While taxing even small savers was politically explosive, the Cypriot government had balked at sparing them by imposing a higher tax on big depositors - fearing for an offshore banking business that accounts for a big share of its economy.

"PLAN B"

Lawmaker Marios Mavrides told Reuters one option under discussion was to nationalize pension funds of semi-government corporations, which hold between 2 billion and 3 billion euros.

An opposition politician present at Wednesday's crisis talks said: "The idea is we can get the pension funds of organizations like the Cyprus Telecoms Organisation and the Electricity Authority, maybe some others as well, and raise two to three billion euros.

"If we raise half of the money then maybe we could top up to the 5.8 billion euro amount by passing the Cypriot banks into Russian hands."

The crisis is unprecedented in the history of the divided east Mediterranean island of 1.1 million people, which suffered a war with Turkey and ethnic split in 1974 in which a quarter of its population was displaced. The Turkish-populated north considers itself a separate country, recognized only by Turkey.

While Brussels has emphasized that the tax measure was a one-off for a country that accounts for just 0.2 percent of Europe's output, fears have grown that savers in other, larger European countries might be spurred to withdraw funds.

With Sarris and Lakkotrypis in Moscow, there was mounting speculation that Russian oil and gas giant Gazprom had mooted its own assistance plan in exchange for exploration rights to Cyprus's offshore gas deposits.

"We at Gazprom did not offer Cyprus anything," Gazprom's spokesman, Sergei Kupriyanov, said.

A senior source in the "troika" said dealing with Cyprus was even more frustrating than protracted wrangling with Greece.

"The Greeks wanted to cheat on you all the time, but they knew what they wanted," the source told Reuters.

"The Cypriots are leaving us really confused."

(Additional reporting by Karolina Tagaris and Matt Robinson in Nicosia, Maya Dyakina in Moscow, Annnika Breidthardt in Berlin, Sakari Suoinen and Eva Kuehnen in Frankfurt and Georgina Prodhan in Vienna; Writing by Matt Robinson and Paul Taylor; Editing by Peter Graff and Alastair Macdonald)


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/20/us-cyprus-parliament-idUSBRE92G03I20130320


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So now Cypriots will be without access to their money for at least 10 days?   :o  :o

What do the people do in the meantime? How do they fuel their cars? Purchase groceries? Pay bills?

It's too bad the majority of Cypriots didn't safeguard themselves with an alternative transaction friendly currency with real value, ...and have access to a network of businesses & merchants willing to accept these in exchange for their goods & services. Although, ...I'm sure this will be remedied very quickly. :D
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24KT

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2013, 09:29:51 PM »
Recently overheard in Poland...

"Now Cyprus knows what it's like to be between Germany & Russia."   ;D

Wow! Talk about being between a rock & a hard place. I understand the Russians are now playing hardball...

"Give us your gas, ...or we'll pull all our money out of your banks!

Here are the truly disgusting ramifications of this fiasco...
If, once accounts are unfrozen, the people DON'T do runs on the banks, gov'ts will have incentives to try it again. Similarly, if people globally don't run the bank, the same thing... resulting in more QE. Vicious cycle.  :'(
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syntaxmachine

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2013, 02:58:18 PM »
Recently overheard in Poland...

"Now Cyprus knows what it's like to be between Germany & Russia."   ;D

Wow! Talk about being between a rock & a hard place. I understand the Russians are now playing hardball...

"Give us your gas, ...or we'll pull all our money out of your banks!

Here are the truly disgusting ramifications of this fiasco...
If, once accounts are unfrozen, the people DON'T do runs on the banks, gov'ts will have incentives to try it again. Similarly, if people globally don't run the bank, the same thing... resulting in more QE. Vicious cycle.  :'(

The Cypriots, and thus a fortiori Cypriot women, are rather insular and don't travel much. So unless the significant class of beautiful Russian women decide to pack their bags, everything will be ok here -- regardless of whether the Euro or Cypriot Pound is ascendant.

Irongrip400

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2013, 03:49:46 PM »
The Cypriots, and thus a fortiori Cypriot women, are rather insular and don't travel much. So unless the significant class of beautiful Russian women decide to pack their bags, everything will be ok here -- regardless of whether the Euro or Cypriot Pound is ascendant.

You say "here", are you from Cyprus? I don't know too much about it, but wouldn't mind visiting once this whole thing dies down.

24KT

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Re: Cyprus Bailout: Welcome To Another Great Depression
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2013, 03:44:24 PM »
This isn't the last time you will see this and it will most likely be pushed in the U.S. in the near future. Whether by direct account theft or having the government convert retirement accounts/pensions/savings etc. to buying U.S. treasuries. Something along those lines.

Even though it failed in Cyprus I'm sure it was floated in because either outcome was planned for and will be used to further the agenda. These people and these totalitarianism will not simply give up and go home and say "Well, we tried!" Nope, just look at the centralized state that Europe has become.

Can you believe the amount of armoured tanks DHS is buying, ...to execute search warrants?

Who conducts a search warrant in an armoured tank built to withstand IEDs?

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