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Author Topic: Will liberals admit the default sexual orientation for humans =heterosexual?  (Read 2876 times)
Beach Bum
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« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2013, 06:47:32 PM »

So modding getbig.com is an abnormal behavior then. So is playing in the New York philharmonic. These are abnormal behaviors (using the criteria set out by Tony in this thread, with which I agreed (but said was trivial)). The "choice" thing does not matter in this thread and is not related to this thread topic. This thread is purely sociological (descriptive). Many actions are abnormal behaviors under this rule. Reading this specific post is a more abnormal behavior than homosexuality (probably less than 20 humans will ever do it). Once again: So what?

No, playing a musical instrument at a high level is not abnormal behavior.  You're confusing extraordinary or exceptional behavior with abnormal behavior.  Not the same.  

The choice thing matters in this thread, because Tony made it the subject of the thread.  Nothing wrong with talking about it.  
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« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2013, 06:50:35 PM »

Tony is correct.  Takes a degree of intellectual dishonesty to argue that heterosexual behavior isn't the normal behavior for humans.  Of course it is. 

That's a separate issue from the whole gay et al. debate. 

And Tony is also correct that one of the motivating factors behind the entire marriage debate is trying to legitimize a lifestyle choice. 

But like I've been saying for years, homosexual marriage is inevitable.  It's going to happen.   

it may be normal for 90% of the population just like being gay is normal for 10% of the population

whether the 90% think the 10% are abnormal or vice versa is totally irrelevant

100% deserve equal protection under the constitution

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« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2013, 06:54:45 PM »

No, playing a musical instrument at a high level is not abnormal behavior.  You're confusing extraordinary or exceptional behavior with abnormal behavior.  Not the same.  

The choice thing matters in this thread, because Tony made it the subject of the thread.  Nothing wrong with talking about it.  

what Tony said had nothing to do with choice directly. He talked about behaviors (actions) that are biologically abnormal (not the 'default' human behavior).  Choice has no role to play here (some abnormal behaviors are 'chosen' and some are not, and some are in between). It is not the default human behavior to play a musical instrument at a high level. (feel free to add in stuff about how it's not necessary for the reproduction of the human species, etc.). Therefore, being able to play a musical instrument (and all the other stuff I've mentioned as examples) at a high level is abnormal human behavior.

You're on the verge of going Aquinas here and start talking about the "purpose" of humans. That is not what Tony was talking about. Like he said, he was giving only a biological argument. Everything else, like choice, freedom, social norms, morality, constitutional law, anti-discrimination law, state law, etc. does not belong anywhere in this thread.
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« Reply #53 on: April 02, 2013, 06:59:54 PM »

choice doesn't matter either

it's irrelevant whether someone is born gay or chooses to be gay

has no bearing at all on the legal right to marriage or to live free from discrimination in work, housing, etc..
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« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2013, 07:05:08 PM »

what you or anyone else thinks is "normal" or "abnormal" is totally irrelevant

I'm sure there are many people to this day who think it's abnormal for a white person to marry a black person


the issue youre arugment has is your example is based in culture, MINE IS BASED IN BIOLOGY!!!!!!

homosexuality isnt thought to be abnormal, IT IS ABNORMAL
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« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2013, 07:08:21 PM »

I agree. Being a Mod on Getbig is more abnormal than homosexuality. This thread has no bearings on public policy, discrimination laws, constitutional law, morality, social norms, etc. It is merely stating a (trivial) fact: (Very) few people are homosexuals.
again you use the word trivial, if it is so trivial why do you think those who push the gay agenda are having such a hard time admitting it?

look at this thread magoo and understand that those who push the GLBT agenda do not agree with the fact that homosexuality is abnormal.

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« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2013, 07:09:36 PM »

what Tony said had nothing to do with choice directly. He talked about behaviors (actions) that are biologically abnormal (not the 'default' human behavior).  Choice has no role to play here (some abnormal behaviors are 'chosen' and some are not, and some are in between). It is not the default human behavior to play a musical instrument at a high level. (feel free to add in stuff about how it's not necessary for the reproduction of the human species, etc.). Therefore, being able to play a musical instrument (and all the other stuff I've mentioned as examples) at a high level is abnormal human behavior.

You're on the verge of going Aquinas here and start talking about the "purpose" of humans. That is not what Tony was talking about. Like he said, he was giving only a biological argument. Everything else, like choice, freedom, social norms, morality, constitutional law, anti-discrimination law, state law, etc. does not belong anywhere in this thread.

Choice does matter in the context of his question, because if heterosexuality is normal behavior for humans, then homosexual behavior (which is not genetic) is something people choose to engage in.  It's nothing like playing a musical instrument.  It is normal for every human to have the capacity to excel at the things we humans do, whether it's a sport, singing, science, medicine, etc.  The fact some excel at some things that few people can do (like playing basketball in the NBA) doesn't make that behavior abnormal.  We all have different skills and talents.  

I'm not on the verge of going Aquinas.  I talk like a normal person.  Don't have a need to try and sound smart.   Smiley

I disagree about whether choice is relevant to a "biological" question for the reasons I've already stated (if conduct is not genetic or biological then it's a choice).  
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« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2013, 07:13:44 PM »

again you use the word trivial, if it is so trivial why do you think those who push the gay agenda are having such a hard time admitting it?

look at this thread magoo and understand that those who push the GLBT agenda do not agree with the fact that homosexuality is abnormal.



Maybe they have a hard time in their minds separating biological (descriptive) from normative systems (law, morality)? I don't know. As I've said many times in this thread, I'll gladly accept your point. But I will obviously accept nothing beyond that (because no implications follow from it). Homosexuality is biologically abnormal. Homosexual marriages are protected by a proper interpretation of constitutional law. The morality of homosexuality is not necessarily related to the biological or the constitutional aspect. Choice is irrelevant (my positions hold either way). Nothing inconsistent here.
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« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2013, 07:16:45 PM »

She's living with a man and has his baby.  Sounds like a former lesbian. 

Yes, still a choice.  I don't think being attracted to the same gender is a normal reaction, but I'm sure it happens.  That doesn't make homosexuality heterosexuality genetic.  People are attracted to all sorts of things, and not everyone is attracted to the same things.  What's unfortunate is we cannot even have this discussion anymore, because people will accuse you of being a bigot if you question whether homosexuality heterosexuality is abnormal behavior.   

I chose to be straight when I was born with an X and a Y, just like every other dude who was born that way with a normal genetic makeup. 

I don't need conclusive proof that being gay straight is a choice.  Because we know heterosexuality homosexuality is, as Tony said, the "default sexual orientation for humans," I'd need to see conclusive evidence that homosexuality heterosexuality is genetic. 

Think about it:  if homosexuality heterosexuality was genetic, we'd have proof of this by now.  I'm sure people have been all over the issue, searching, researching, etc.  But there's nothing that I've ever seen proving that homosexuality heterosexuality is genetic.   

Cuts both ways.  Now how old were you when you made the choice to be straight?  Certainly not at birth as babies do not quite yet possess the capabilities to make choices.  So when did you choose to be straight?  Did you register for it like selective service?  Did you check a box on your driver's license.

Need evidence of this "choice".
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« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2013, 07:16:59 PM »

Choice does matter in the context of his question, because if heterosexuality is normal behavior for humans, then homosexual behavior (which is not genetic) is something people choose to engage in.  It's nothing like playing a musical instrument.  It is normal for every human to have the capacity to excel at the things we humans do, whether it's a sport, singing, science, medicine, etc.  The fact some excel at some things that few people can do (like playing basketball in the NBA) doesn't make that behavior abnormal.  We all have different skills and talents.  

I'm not on the verge of going Aquinas.  I talk like a normal person.  Don't have a need to try and sound smart.   Smiley

I disagree about whether choice is relevant to a "biological" question for the reasons I've already stated (if conduct is not genetic or biological then it's a choice).  

It's awesome that you've found proof of this
please provide it

fyi - it makes ZERO difference to any discussion about equal rights for gay people
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« Reply #60 on: April 02, 2013, 07:29:30 PM »

the issue youre arugment has is your example is based in culture, MINE IS BASED IN BIOLOGY!!!!!!

homosexuality isnt thought to be abnormal, IT IS ABNORMAL

your argument is not based on biology

it's based solely on your own personal beliefs

there is no "default" for human biology for sexual orientation just like there is no default hair color, eye color, blood type, height, etc..

your premise in the first post of this thread is false
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« Reply #61 on: April 02, 2013, 07:52:58 PM »

Maybe they have a hard time in their minds separating biological (descriptive) from normative systems (law, morality)? I don't know. As I've said many times in this thread, I'll gladly accept your point. But I will obviously accept nothing beyond that (because no implications follow from it). Homosexuality is biologically abnormal. Homosexual marriages are protected by a proper interpretation of constitutional law. The morality of homosexuality is not necessarily related to the biological or the constitutional aspect. Choice is irrelevant (my positions hold either way). Nothing inconsistent here.
what proper interpretation of constitutional law are you referring to magoo?

you do realize that the whole premise to the gay marriage argument is based in biology right?

the argument is that b/c its biological and they cant help it, its wrong to discriminate...

why is biology ok to bolster your claim?
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« Reply #62 on: April 02, 2013, 07:54:31 PM »

your argument is not based on biology

it's based solely on your own personal beliefs

there is no "default" for human biology for sexual orientation just like there is no default hair color, eye color, blood type, height, etc..

your premise in the first post of this thread is false
lol so in a species that requires two opposite sex individuals to procreate heterosexual is not the predetermined sexual orientation outside of abnormal mutations?

you see what I mean Magoo?
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« Reply #63 on: April 02, 2013, 07:56:06 PM »

what proper interpretation of constitutional law are you referring to magoo?

you do realize that the whole premise to the gay marriage argument is based in biology right?

the argument is that b/c its biological and they cant help it, its wrong to discriminate...

why is biology ok to bolster your claim?

the entire premise is the equal protection clause of the constitution

biology (whatever you're implying by that) is not part of the argument at all
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« Reply #64 on: April 02, 2013, 08:10:43 PM »

the entire premise is the equal protection clause of the constitution

biology (whatever you're implying by that) is not part of the argument at all
LOL your like the little kid who gets asked why he hit another kid and answers "i was mad"...why was the kid mad?

by that logic your logic you should be in favor of polygamy as well.

look at the reasons behind your answer straw, the reasoning behind the push for equality is b/c they feel is against their control. Its biological, thats why there was a big uproar from the libtards when "psychologists" came out and stated it wasnt a choice it was their biological disposition.

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« Reply #65 on: April 03, 2013, 09:31:00 AM »

LOL your like the little kid who gets asked why he hit another kid and answers "i was mad"...why was the kid mad?

by that logic your logic you should be in favor of polygamy as well.

look at the reasons behind your answer straw, the reasoning behind the push for equality is b/c they feel is against their control. Its biological, thats why there was a big uproar from the libtards when "psychologists" came out and stated it wasnt a choice it was their biological disposition.



Tony - you've got to stop pretending you're some kind of logic master because you just wind of looking like a moron every time you try.

The entire premise of this thread is nothing more than your personal bias about homosexuality

You START with a word that is a pejorative (no doubt based on your own belief that being gay is somehow wrong, or a sin or whatever it is that you have a problem with about it) and then you try to pretend you're just talking about biology

Here is the definition of abnormal

ab·nor·mal  
/abˈnôrməl/
Adjective
Deviating from what is normal or usual, typically in a way that is undesirable.
Synonyms
anomalous - unnatural - irregular - aberrant - unusual

You insist you're just talking about biology so let's take another biological example

The blood type AB Rh negative is only shared by about .6% of the US population

Do we call that Abnormal or do we call that RARE ?

edit - I have said many times I have no issue with polygamy.  Why would I care?  There are polygamists in this country right now and it has no effect on my life
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« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2013, 09:45:47 AM »

Tony - you've got to stop pretending you're some kind of logic master because you just wind of looking like a moron every time you try.

The entire premise of this thread is nothing more than your personal bias about homosexuality

You START with a word that is a pejorative (no doubt based on your own belief that being gay is somehow wrong, or a sin or whatever it is that you have a problem with about it) and then you try to pretend you're just talking about biology

Here is the definition of abnormal

ab·nor·mal  
/abˈnôrməl/
Adjective
Deviating from what is normal or usual, typically in a way that is undesirable.
Synonyms
anomalous - unnatural - irregular - aberrant - unusual

You insist you're just talking about biology so let's take another biological example

The blood type AB Rh negative is only shared by about .6% of the US population

Do we call that Abnormal or do we call that RARE ?


You notice that too huh?

Good luck with that.  He overcompensates by trying to string buzz words together in an attempt to sound witty and knowledgeable which in reality leaves any argument or stance of his with a bigger gap in it than there was before.

Particularly amusing is his habit of trying to reverse your statement back in the form of a rhetorical question in the hopes that you will make his argument for him.  Since he isn't exactly sure of what he is trying to say or how to convey it. 
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« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2013, 10:50:18 AM »

It's awesome that you've found proof of this
please provide it

fyi - it makes ZERO difference to any discussion about equal rights for gay people

We did some research in college about how homosexuality was most likely caused by being exposed to abnormally high levels of testosterone in the womb. The marker was a difference in digit ratio between index and pointer finger. Now, I'm not saying I believe that nature didn't intend for people to be straight, because I believe that is the actual "plan", but I think sometimes there are other factors during development that can cause this "plan" to be deviated from. I believe that it is something you are born as, and as such, should be given equal treatment, especially from a financial/tax standpoint. I have no problem what someone wants to do, as long as they don't interfere with my happiness. That is what this life is all about, right? And this from a dude who votes republican across the board 99% of the time.

For the record, Straw, I wasn't disagreeing, just quoting your post as it had the biological reference.
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« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2013, 10:57:29 AM »

We did some research in college about how homosexuality was most likely caused by being exposed to abnormally high levels of testosterone in the womb. The marker was a difference in digit ratio between index and pointer finger. Now, I'm not saying I believe that nature didn't intend for people to be straight, because I believe that is the actual "plan", but I think sometimes there are other factors during development that can cause this "plan" to be deviated from. I believe that it is something you are born as, and as such, should be given equal treatment, especially from a financial/tax standpoint. I have no problem what someone wants to do, as long as they don't interfere with my happiness. That is what this life is all about, right? And this from a dude who votes republican across the board 99% of the time.

For the record, Straw, I wasn't disagreeing, just quoting your post as it had the biological reference.
Agreed. I find our viewpoints are quite similar most of the time.
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« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2013, 11:02:35 AM »

We did some research in college about how homosexuality was most likely caused by being exposed to abnormally high levels of testosterone in the womb. The marker was a difference in digit ratio between index and pointer finger. Now, I'm not saying I believe that nature didn't intend for people to be straight, because I believe that is the actual "plan", but I think sometimes there are other factors during development that can cause this "plan" to be deviated from. I believe that it is something you are born as, and as such, should be given equal treatment, especially from a financial/tax standpoint. I have no problem what someone wants to do, as long as they don't interfere with my happiness. That is what this life is all about, right? And this from a dude who votes republican across the board 99% of the time.

For the record, Straw, I wasn't disagreeing, just quoting your post as it had the biological reference.

I'll go you one further

I don't think it matters whether you are born that way (which I believe it the case just given what virtually every gay person will tell you) or whether you choose to be gay

It makes no difference in whether a person deserves equal treatment under the law
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« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2013, 11:11:37 AM »

I'll go you one further

I don't think it matters whether you are born that way (which I believe it the case just given what virtually every gay person will tell you) or whether you choose to be gay

It makes no difference in whether a person deserves equal treatment under the law
Also agree. I don't understand people who think it's their place to tell other people how they have to live their lives.
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« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2013, 11:22:38 AM »

We did some research in college about how homosexuality was most likely caused by being exposed to abnormally high levels of testosterone in the womb. The marker was a difference in digit ratio between index and pointer finger. Now, I'm not saying I believe that nature didn't intend for people to be straight, because I believe that is the actual "plan", but I think sometimes there are other factors during development that can cause this "plan" to be deviated from. I believe that it is something you are born as, and as such, should be given equal treatment, especially from a financial/tax standpoint. I have no problem what someone wants to do, as long as they don't interfere with my happiness. That is what this life is all about, right? And this from a dude who votes republican across the board 99% of the time.

For the record, Straw, I wasn't disagreeing, just quoting your post as it had the biological reference.

Great post.
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« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2013, 04:34:10 PM »

Agreed. I find our viewpoints are quite similar most of the time.

Didn't you just have a baby? Can't remember without the Bruce Campbell avatar.
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« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2013, 06:44:41 PM »

Tony - you've got to stop pretending you're some kind of logic master because you just wind of looking like a moron every time you try.

The entire premise of this thread is nothing more than your personal bias about homosexuality

You START with a word that is a pejorative (no doubt based on your own belief that being gay is somehow wrong, or a sin or whatever it is that you have a problem with about it) and then you try to pretend you're just talking about biology

Here is the definition of abnormal

ab·nor·mal 
/abˈnôrməl/
Adjective
Deviating from what is normal or usual, typically in a way that is undesirable.
Synonyms
anomalous - unnatural - irregular - aberrant - unusual

You insist you're just talking about biology so let's take another biological example

The blood type AB Rh negative is only shared by about .6% of the US population

Do we call that Abnormal or do we call that RARE ?

edit - I have said many times I have no issue with polygamy.  Why would I care?  There are polygamists in this country right now and it has no effect on my life
LOL that definition fits my explanation of abnormal homosexual behavior quite well...behavior deviating from normal behavior...homosexuality is more than 2 standard DEVIATIONS away from the mean in a normal bell curve

I.E......ABNORMAL

sorry hoss, this isnt up for debate. If you want to put it in a cultural context you can argue bias but numbers dont lie sir....
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« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2013, 06:45:51 PM »

We did some research in college about how homosexuality was most likely caused by being exposed to abnormally high levels of testosterone in the womb. The marker was a difference in digit ratio between index and pointer finger. Now, I'm not saying I believe that nature didn't intend for people to be straight, because I believe that is the actual "plan", but I think sometimes there are other factors during development that can cause this "plan" to be deviated from. I believe that it is something you are born as, and as such, should be given equal treatment, especially from a financial/tax standpoint. I have no problem what someone wants to do, as long as they don't interfere with my happiness. That is what this life is all about, right? And this from a dude who votes republican across the board 99% of the time.

For the record, Straw, I wasn't disagreeing, just quoting your post as it had the biological reference.
did you two libtards read this part and just skip over it?

you both seem to agree with his post but quickly skip over the part where he is saying the exact same thing I am saying
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