hey true adonis, have you watched dr lustigs lecture?

[Disgusted]

I have eaten "clean" before, year round for a few years and even dieted "clean".  I was the absolute weakest on those cuts.  Embarrassingly so.  It was awful and I looked worse than any other approach.  On MuscleMayhem I had a daily log and I was following Wes diet of carb cycling to the T with ZERO variations.  It was awful.

Why would you be weak eating clean? What was it about the foods that you were eating made you weak?

[The True Adonis]

Why would you be weak eating clean? What was it about the foods that you were eating made you weak?

Low Carbs.

It was set like this:

Day-1: 150 grams
Day-2: 100 grams
Day-3: 50 grams
Day-4: 125 grams
Day-5: 200 grams

and Protein was very high 1.5 to 2 grams per lb of bodyweight.

I lost strength like you wouldn`t believe and muscle as a result. 

I`m talking 100 lbs or more on some lifts.

[Disgusted]

Low Carbs.

It was set like this:

Day-1: 150 grams
Day-2: 100 grams
Day-3: 50 grams
Day-4: 125 grams
Day-5: 200 grams

and Protein was very high 1.5 to 2 grams per lb of bodyweight.

I lost strength like you wouldn`t believe and muscle as a result. 

I`m talking 100 lbs or more on some lifts.

That's interesting. Personally I don't think anyone needs more than 1 gram per pound. As far as your carbs it depends on your fat intake which you don't mention. If fats were low low then I can see why you got weak.

[Jovo]

jovo, theres no need to calculate anything.

after a while everyone knows how much to eat.

if you want get lean you only eat when hungry.

dont eat any sugar, carbs are ok, theres many approaches.
yeah you beat me to it.
if one "cant give up" on it, fine, he can get lean too, will just be unproportianly harder or take longer.

the thing is ,in this "sport", if one isnt lean, the work wont show.

theres no easy way.

yes, I agree, I used to "count calories" a while back, until I realized its easier to just eat healthy clean food 3 times a day, you end up on maintenence calories and dont need to focus on eating like its something that actually matters in life... I hope you get what i mean.

Sugar is a problem for me as it gives me pimples, while eating normal food, i have a totally clean face.

[Mr Nobody]

That's interesting. Personally I don't think anyone needs more than 1 gram per pound. As far as your carbs it depends on your fat intake which you don't mention. If fats were low low then I can see why you got weak.

This ^. Protein is overblown mostly merchants trying to make money off people and alot fall for it.

[The True Adonis]

I love food and cooking.  I found a way that enables me to eat whatever I want and keep my strength and look my best without having to limit myself in any way.  For me, this is optimal in all ways.

[BIG ACH]

and as for losing weight in calric deficit, well, lets see.have a generous carb up day,and then feed yourself nothing but beer and oreos,staying at maintainanc calorie intake for a week and see what hapens.

Well now I may actually try that cause I'm genuinely curious what WOULD happen? lol..... oh wait I don't drink alcohol though, so need to find a substitute for the beer!


This all doesn't change the fact that Layne Norton is correct.   A Calorie IS TRULY a Calorie.... but you need to set up your diet in a way that makes it optimal to put on muscle!

[animal1991]

Alan Aragon's response to the video:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/

Summary of their debate:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/

I posted these links on page 1 already. I guess no one bothered to read it

[Disgusted]

Well now I may actually try that cause I'm genuinely curious what WOULD happen? lol..... oh wait I don't drink alcohol though, so need to find a substitute for the beer!


This all doesn't change the fact that Layne Norton is correct.   A Calorie IS TRULY a Calorie.... but you need to set up your diet in a way that makes it optimal to put on muscle!

By definition a calorie is a calorie, but that's usually not what people really mean. A calorie from sugar doesn't affect the body the same as a calorie from fat or protein.

[animal1991]

ill be glad to check the links youve provided, but the video is newer than 2 years.

look, some ppl point out very minimal flaws in what he cited, but the overall message is very clear.

theres nothing upto debate on how fructose and sugar are metabolised.

and i mean, everyones free to try for themselves, live on mostly sugar based diet and see.

So in other words you didn't even bother reading the SAME links I posted on Page 1? Do you even know who Alan Aragon is? Oh I forgot your such an expert on human metabolism. Such great advice you give: only eat protein and use AAS. I think you should become a prep guru

[BIG ACH]

By definition a calorie is a calorie, but that's usually not what people really mean. A calorie from sugar doesn't affect the body the same as a calorie from fat or protein.

What I gathered from reading some of Layne Norton's research is...

In regard to losing weight:

Priority #1 for losing weight:  Calorie control
Priority #2 for losing weight:  Choosing a certain macro distribution that provides the optimal effects on your body such as thermogenic effects, insulin balance, fiber balance, Water levels, etc etc etc etc.

[Disgusted]

What I gathered from reading some of Layne Norton's research is...

In regard to losing weight:

Priority #1 for losing weight:  Calorie control
Priority #2 for losing weight:  Choosing a certain macro distribution that provides the optimal effects on your body such as thermogenic effects, insulin balance, fiber balance, Water levels, etc etc etc etc.

The max thermogenic effect would be to lower carbs. If you are an athlete who burns off a lot of glycogen then eat a carb meals after training. That will take care of your insulin balance. Fiber is not needed and drink water when your are thirsty that's a no brainer.

[The True Adonis]

What I gathered from reading some of Layne Norton's research is...

In regard to losing weight:

Priority #1 for losing weight:  Calorie control
Priority #2 for losing weight:  Choosing a certain macro distribution that provides the optimal effects on your body such as thermogenic effects, insulin balance, fiber balance, Water levels, etc etc etc etc.

Regarding Priority #2 for me,

By cooking foods of all kinds and making all different kinds of meals and cuisines and eating out etc..., I get the Macros necessary by default without ever having to calculate them or even try for them.  

[The True Adonis]

The max thermogenic effect would be to lower carbs. If you are an athlete who burns off a lot of glycogen then eat a carb meals after training. That will take care of your insulin balance. Fiber is not needed and drink water when your are thirsty that's a no brainer.

Alberto Nunez and Matt Ogus eat very high Carbs.

Here is Matt Ogus Contest Diet Log that he is keeping:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/flexforall

[Disgusted]

Alberto Nunez and Matt Ogus eat very high Carbs.

Here is Matt Ogus Contest Diet Log that he is keeping:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/flexforall

Carbs are not an essential macro.

[animal1991]

Carbs aren't essential - true, but who wants to give them up if you don't need to?

[The True Adonis]

Carbs are not an essential macro.

But they are optimal.

[The True Adonis]

Here is a higher calorie day for Ogus, keep in mind this is Contest Dieting.


http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/flexforall?date=2013-03-30

flexforall's Food Diary For: Prev Saturday March 30, 2013 Next
Meal 1   Calories   Fat   Carbs   Protein   Fiber
Fiber One Whole Grain Flakes,With Honey Clusters - Breakfast Cereal , 1 cup   160   2   44   3   13   
General Mills - Fiber One 80 Calories Chocolate Squares, 3/4 cup   80   1   25   1   9   
Alta Dena - Fat Free Milk 240ml (8 oz), 180 ml   68   0   10   7   0   
Mts - Vanilla Whey, 2 scoop   300   7   10   50   2   
Carlson Norwegian - Salmon Oil, 4 Soft Gels   36   4   0   0   0   
Bananas - Raw, 120 g   107   0   27   1   3   
Quick Tools   751   14   116   62   27   
Meal 2
Chipotle - Chicken Burrito W/ Brown Rice, Black Beans, Fajitas, Tomato Salsa, Lettuce, Corn, 1 burrito   885   23   123   54   21   
Quick Tools   885   23   123   54   21   
Meal 3
Generic - Baked Salmon Fillet, 105 g   190   13   0   19   0   
Sweet Potato - Sweet Potato - Raw, 290 grams   249   0   58   6   9   
Bayview Farms - 12-Grain Bread, 1 slice   130   3   23   4   1   
Generic - Grilled Tri Tip Steak, 4 oz.   284   20   0   39   0   
Quick Tools   853   36   81   68   10   
Meal 4
Quick Tools                       
Meal 5
Quick Tools                       
Meal 6
Usp Labs - Modern Bcaa White Blue Raspberry, 3 Scoops   53   0   0   13   0   
Alta Dena - Fat Free Milk 240ml (8 oz), 240 ml   90   0   13   9   0   
Grams - Fat, 10 gram   90   10   0   0   0   
Grams - Protein, 5 gram   20   0   0   5   0   
Grams - Carbs, 60 gram   240   0   60   0   0   
Dryer's Slow Churned 1/2 the Fat - Cookies & Cream Ice Cream, 1 cup   240   5   40   6   0   
Quick Tools   733   15   113   33   0   
 
Totals   3,222   88   433   217   58   
flexforall's Daily Goal   0   0   0   0   0   
Remaining    -3,222    -88    -433    -217    -58   
Calories   Fat   Carbs   Protein   Fiber   

[BIG ACH]

Carbs are not an essential macro.

?  Could you explain that a bit further?

[Disgusted]

But they are optimal.

Optimal?

[Disgusted]

?  Could you explain that a bit further?

You don't need carbs to stay alive.

[el numero uno]

I have eaten "clean" before, year round for a few years and even dieted "clean".  I was the absolute weakest on those cuts.  Embarrassingly so.  It was awful and I looked worse than any other approach.  On MuscleMayhem I had a daily log and I was following Wes diet of carb cycling to the T with ZERO variations.  It was awful.

And what makes you think you're the "rule"? If what you say is true then you're more likely the "exception".

Alberto Nunez and Matt Ogus eat very high Carbs.

Here is Matt Ogus Contest Diet Log that he is keeping:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/flexforall

Don't you ever doubt people's natural status? Especially when it comes to bodybuilding, so many bullshitters out there, some even lie just for the attention. Since you brag about your intelligence every 5th post, I find hard to believe you would be so naive. I'm not talking about that guy in particular but in general, you never doubt their natty status.

[The True Adonis]

Optimal?

Yep.  Especially if you are quite busy physically with other things outside of the gym.  Not only that, they are optimal if you want to make yourself a great meal and optimal if you are going to bake a cake.

They also help preserve your strength, and are protein/muscle sparing.

[Disgusted]

Carbs aren't essential - true, but who wants to give them up if you don't need to?

Not saying you need to, but people eat too damn many especially in the form of sugar.

[The True Adonis]

You don't need carbs to stay alive.

You don`t need eyeglasses to stay alive either, but who wants to go around with sub-par vision if it can be avoided?