Ricin terrorist is confirmed to be christian?

[tonymctones]

  Because people who claim to have  religious backgrounds always behave morally? And there have never been murders committed in the name of religion?

BTW,Lack of religion =/= lack of morals.

LFMAO where did I say any of that and what does any of this have to do with the point I made?

now run along fat albert....

[Straw Man]

absolutely there are moral atheist just as their are immoral religious ppl, the practice of the individual subscriber to the respect theology is irrelevant.

you are wrong in saying morals have nothing to do with religion....religion teaches morals whether you agree with them or not

Atheism doesnt subscribe to any moral code, atheist can be moral but it has nothing to do with the fact they are atheist.

Religious ppl can be moral and it can be a direct relation to their religion.

If you disagree, Ill ask again...what morals does atheism subscribe to?

I can tell you what morals christianity subscribes to, why cant you tell us what morals atheism subscribes to?

b/c there are none!!!!

sorry man

it's Friday  night and I don't have time/patience for you nonsensical jibberish

feel free to prove that lack of religion is equivalent to or leads to lack of morals

you might want to start with defining morals so that we know you even have a working knowledge of that

I'll check back in a couple of days and see what you've come up with

[tonymctones]

sorry man

it's Friday  night and I don't have time/patience for you nonsensical jibberish

feel free to prove that lack of religion is equivalent to or leads to lack of morals

you might want to start with defining morals so that we know you even have a working knowledge of that

I'll check back in a couple of days and see what you've come up with

LMFAO I never said that lack of religion means no morals, try and follow along here...

Atheism does not teach morals, this is not really up for debate. This isnt to say that atheist cant have morals but if they do its not due to their atheist belief.

Religion teaches morals, whether you agree with them or not...Some ppl have morals due to their religious beliefs

As atheism doesnt subscribe to any moral doctrine, an atheist may not look at their actions such as mass murder are wrong....

[Archer77]

LMFAO I never said that lack of religion means no morals, try and follow along here...

Atheism does not teach morals, this is not really up for debate. This isnt to say that atheist cant have morals but if they do its not due to their atheist belief.

Religion teaches morals, whether you agree with them or not...Some ppl have morals due to their religious beliefs

As atheism doesnt subscribe to any moral doctrine, an atheist may not look at their actions such as mass murder are wrong....

Atheist do teach morals.  Behaving a particular may is mutually beneficial.

[Straw Man]

LMFAO I never said that lack of religion means no morals, try and follow along here...

Atheism does not teach morals, this is not really up for debate. This isnt to say that atheist cant have morals but if they do its not due to their atheist belief.

Religion teaches morals, whether you agree with them or not...Some ppl have morals due to their religious beliefs

As atheism doesnt subscribe to any moral doctrine, an atheist may not look at their actions such as mass murder are wrong....

what does this quote mean

One could argue that it was the lack or religion and therefor morals that is inherent in atheism that allowed these sick ppl to murder so many

Atheism does not "teach" anything

It the word we use for a personal belief that there is no god

that's it

individuals can have morals or not have them independent of their religious beliefs or lack of beliefs

why do you always tie yourself up in these ridiculous knots

I have no idea what point you think you're trying to make with this line on nonsense

[tonymctones]

Atheist do teach morals.  Behaving a particular may is mutually beneficial.

yes but that ideal is not b/c they are a atheist. What makes it wrong from an atheist standpoint for someone to say screw the common good Im out for myself?

I can point to my belief that murder is wrong and say exactly why I believe it to be so based in my religious beliefs. Atheist cant b/c atheism does not a set of morals that atheist subscribe.

[tonymctones]

what does this quote mean

Atheism does not "teach" anything

It the word we use for a personal belief that there is no god

that's it

individuals can have morals or not have them independent of their religious beliefs or lack of beliefs

why do you always tie yourself up in these ridiculous knots

I have no idea what point you think you're trying to make with this line on nonsense

goodness gracious I agree you can have morals and be religious or atheist.

Answer the question as you certainly do know where I am going which is why you wont answer the question.

what morals does atheism subscribe to?

[Archer77]

yes but that ideal is not b/c they are a atheist. What makes it wrong from an atheist standpoint for someone to say screw the common good Im out for myself?

I can point to my belief that murder is wrong and say exactly why I believe it to be so based in my religious beliefs. Atheist cant b/c atheism does not a set of morals that atheist subscribe.

Because the origins of morality is biological.  It is a completely internal phenomenon.  Because of the way humans are made, we have evolved to be moral because it keeps society stable and benefits indivduals and groups to be so.  You don't kill someone because it may jeopardize your place in the herd and because humans form bounds with indivduals in a group.  

[Straw Man]

goodness gracious I agree you can have morals and be religious or atheist.

Answer the question as you certainly do know where I am going which is why you wont answer the question.

what morals does atheism subscribe to?

I've already told you what atheist means and as with most of your confused and tortured conclusions I have no idea where you are going

since you've just stated that an atheist can have morals why don't you answer your own question instead of asking me

[24KT]

I understand your reasoning here Dario73.

Tell me, would you grant the same to those who feel that way about islam?

I know many who claim that anyone who kills in the name of Islam, is not a true muslim even if they claim to be.

Bump for an answer from Dario73

Dario, are you a Christian?

[tonymctones]

Because the origins of morality is biological.  It is a completely internal phenomenon.  Because of the way humans are made, we have evolved to be moral because it keeps society stable and benefits indivduals and groups to be so.  You don't kill someone because it may jeopardize your place in the herd and because humans form bounds with indivduals in a group.  

so what? and what if you have a group of ppl who believe that killing others and taking their shit is good?

who are you to say theyre wrong?

Religion gives specific reasons for its basis of morals, atheism does not. You dont hold certain moral beliefs b/c youre atheist, you do hold certain moral beliefs b/c youre religious.

This isnt to say that atheists cant be moral, just that their morality isnt bc of their atheist beliefs

[Al Doggity]

LMFAO I never said that lack of religion means no morals, try and follow along here...

Atheism does not teach morals, this is not really up for debate. This isnt to say that atheist cant have morals but if they do its not due to their atheist belief.

Religion teaches morals, whether you agree with them or not...Some ppl have morals due to their religious beliefs

As atheism doesnt subscribe to any moral doctrine, an atheist may not look at their actions such as mass murder are wrong....

What you did say is this:
One could argue that it was the lack or religion and therefor morals that is inherent in atheism that allowed these sick ppl to murder so many


Presumably, what you meant is that "lack of a religious foundation and therefore a lack of moral foundation..."

and that's where your bullshit flies off the rails. True, religious foundation does provide a moral foundation, but LACK of religious foundation does not equal LACK OF MORAL FOUNDATION . First of all, it does not take a religious parent to instill morals in a child. Secondly, many atheists are raised by religious parents.

[tonymctones]

I've already told you what atheist means and as with most of your confused and tortured conclusions I have no idea where you are going

since you've just stated that an atheist can have morals why don't you answer your own question instead of asking me

first I never asked what atheism mean, so I have no clue as to why you bring that up.

atheist can have morals b/c they derive them from culture, not b/c they are atheist.

You dont answer the question b/c you know that it kills you ignorant argument.

Thats ok archer looks like he wants and actual conversation so just sit there and read boss, maybe youll learn something

[24KT]

What you did say is this:
One could argue that it was the lack or religion and therefor morals that is inherent in atheism that allowed these sick ppl to murder so many


Presumably, what you meant is that "lack of a religious foundation and therefore a lack of moral foundation..."

and that's where your bullshit flies off the rails. True, religious foundation does provide a moral foundation, but LACK of religious foundation does not equal LACK OF MORAL FOUNDATION . First of all, it does not take a religious parent to instill morals in a child. Secondly, many atheists are raised by religious parents.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if that alone was found to be the #1 reason for atheism in the first place. lol

[tonymctones]

What you did say is this:
One could argue that it was the lack or religion and therefor morals that is inherent in atheism that allowed these sick ppl to murder so many


Presumably, what you meant is that "lack of a religious foundation and therefore a lack of moral foundation..."

and that's where your bullshit flies off the rails. True, religious foundation does provide a moral foundation, but LACK of religious foundation does not equal LACK OF MORAL FOUNDATION . First of all, it does not take a religious parent to instill morals in a child. Secondly, many atheists are raised by religious parents.

I agree with you Al but I never said it means lack of moral foundation. As a matter of fact I have said many times that atheist can be moral ppl.

BUUUUUTTTTTTT, that morality does not stem from their atheist belief like the morality of religious ppl.

Atheism itself doesnt have morals, an atheist is free to believe that murder is ok doesnt mean he will but a fellow atheist has no grounds to say he is wrong.

Ill ask you seeing as it sounds like youre open to having an actual discussion on the subject.

What morals does atheism subscribe to?

[Archer77]

so what? and what if you have a group of ppl who believe that killing others and taking their shit is good?

who are you to say theyre wrong?

Religion gives specific reasons for its basis of morals, atheism does not. You dont hold certain moral beliefs b/c youre atheist, you do hold certain moral beliefs b/c youre religious.

This isnt to say that atheists cant be moral, just that their morality isnt bc of their atheist beliefs

I have an indepth rebuttal which I will post later.  I'm on my iPad and its ten here.

[tonymctones]

I have an indepth rebuttal which I will post later.  I'm on my iPad and its ten here.

look forward to it sir

[Al Doggity]

I agree with you Al but I never said it means lack of moral foundation. As a matter of fact I have said many times that atheist can be moral ppl.

You specifically said "lack of religion and therefore lack of morals inherent in atheism." So, if you're not saying that atheists lack moral foundation, then what you literally said is that they are inherently immoral.

[Al Doggity]

As for what morals atheists subscribe to, I'm not even sure where you're going with that.
Atheism is not a belief system. It is a rejection of the concept of deities. There is not
a collection of organized beliefs and ideas. It's like asking where do political independents
stand on the issue of abortion There's nothing precluding them from having beliefs that line up
with either party, but the beliefs of the group itself aren't defined.

[tonymctones]

You specifically said "lack of religion and therefore lack of morals inherent in atheism." So, if you're not saying that atheists lack moral foundation, then what you literally said is that they are inherently immoral.

atheism does lack morals, atheist do not necissarily as they can subscribe to morals taught by other dogma.

atheist may have morals but they didnt derive from atheism

why is that so hard to understand?

[tonymctones]

As for what morals atheists subscribe to, I'm not even sure where you're going with that.
Atheism is not a belief system. It is a rejection of the concept of deities. There is not
a collection of organized beliefs and ideas. It's like asking where do political independents
stand on the issue of abortion There's nothing precluding them from having beliefs that line up
with either party, but the beliefs of the group itself aren't defined.

EXACTLY so an atheist is free to believe that anything is moral including murdering millions of ppl or even that their is no morality....

Religion however teaches that there is morality and there is a right and wrong.

So one could argue that b/c they were atheist they didnt hold a moral belief system that said murder is wrong.

[Al Doggity]

atheism does lack morals, atheist do not necissarily as they can subscribe to morals taught by other dogma.

atheist may have morals but they didnt derive from atheism

why is that so hard to understand?

Because it's ridiculous. It's like saying carpentry lacks morals. Atheism is not devised as a moral system. Subscribing to dogma isn't necessary to possess morality.

EXACTLY so an atheist is free to believe that anything is moral including murdering millions of ppl or even that their is no morality....

All of this can be said (and has been said) about people with strong religious backgrounds. What your describing is either a lack of moral foundation or a psychotic disorder.

[loco]

All this arguing.  It's very simple.  Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were all educated, modern, atheist leaders, and they murdered millions of innocent people.  

You can't say that about any religious person that ever existed.  So Straw and other atheists just need to stop pointing fingers at "fundies".  

[loco]

Because the origins of morality is biological.  It is a completely internal phenomenon.  Because of the way humans are made, we have evolved to be moral because it keeps society stable and benefits indivduals and groups to be so.  You don't kill someone because it may jeopardize your place in the herd and because humans form bounds with indivduals in a group.  

You could just as well say

"You must kill Jews, Gipsies, cripples, the mentally challenged, the terminally ill and the elderly because they may jeopardize your place in the herd and because humans form bounds with individuals in a group that are like them."

This has been the "moral" norm before, you know.

In other words, who decides what is moral and what isn't?

[tu_holmes]

All this arguing.  It's very simple.  Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were all educated, modern, atheist leaders, and they murdered millions of innocent people. 

You can't say that about any religious person that ever existed.  So Straw and other atheists just need to stop pointing fingers at "fundies". 

Sure, but Hitler was Christian, so it obviously isn't about religion or the lack thereof.