Author Topic: Newton's laws of motion  (Read 5526 times)

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Newton's laws of motion
« on: April 22, 2013, 09:41:23 AM »
I need help. I hate math (any kind of math) more than I hate waterfalls and spiders. That being said, I still have to my fair share of "math" when it comes to load percentages, etc. I know there are some academically smart people on here, wife's not here so I can't ask her. So here it goes.

If I have a 155lbs RB and he and a 270-290lbs LB run into each other, what would be the force of contact? Of course the RB would be going a longer distance (about 10 yard) and running at a much more explosive rate. Not even sure I asked the question properly, but this is what I came up with.


The True Adonis

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 09:49:47 AM »
I need help. I hate math (any kind of math) more than I hate waterfalls and spiders. That being said, I still have to my fair share of "math" when it comes to load percentages, etc. I know there are some academically smart people on here, wife's not here so I can't ask her. So here it goes.

If I have a 155lbs RB and he and a 270-290lbs LB run into each other, what would be the force of contact? Of course the RB would be going a longer distance (about 10 yard) and running at a much more explosive rate. Not even sure I asked the question properly, but this is what I came up with.


You would need to know the acceleration/speed to determine this.  

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2013, 09:53:23 AM »
You would need to know the acceleration to determine this.  F=ma   Force=Mass*Acceleration

RB has a 1.7sec 10yrd split. Average OL has about a 1.9-2.0 split.

The True Adonis

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2013, 09:53:50 AM »
In other words, a 155 lb person running at full speed could potentially generate more impact than a fat ass permabulker running 2 mph.



The True Adonis

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2013, 09:54:44 AM »
RB has a 1.7sec 10yrd split. Average OL has about a 1.9-2.0 split.
How fast were they going at the point of impact though? That is what matters.

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2013, 09:59:57 AM »
In other words, a 155 lb person running at full speed could potentially generate more impact than a fat ass permabulker running 2 mph.




Yes.

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2013, 10:00:37 AM »
How fast were they going at the point of impact though? That is what matters.

Hard to say. We measure in time not MPH.

TigerStripes

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2013, 10:01:59 AM »
Coach has a good heart.

But God Damn! He is a slow mother fucker!

No offense.

TheTruth90

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2013, 10:02:54 AM »
How fast were they going at the point of impact though? That is what matters.

speed= distance/time

The True Adonis

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2013, 10:03:31 AM »
Are you trying to figure out the total force of impact-inelastic collision?

The True Adonis

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2013, 10:06:04 AM »
Here you go Coach.

http://www.endmemo.com/physics/inelastic.php That should make it easier for you.

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2013, 10:12:38 AM »
Are you trying to figure out the total force of impact-inelastic collision?

Yes. Let me explain.

I'm trying to put into words to parents the importance of power and strength. I had a parent come up and say they didn't want their kid to train "too heavy" for fear of injury, I understand that. But what the parent doesn't understand, in order for that kid to have an advantage over a bigger player, we need to make that kid as powerful and explosive to protect him. Although the parent kinda got it, I don't think it resonated to the point where they understood.

I understand force x mass = acceleration in the gym, I'm just not sure that same equation can be used on the field.

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2013, 10:14:06 AM »
Coach has a good heart.

But God Damn! He is a slow mother fucker!

No offense.

No offense taken by any means. When it comes to stuff like this I'm extremely slow.

TigerStripes

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2013, 10:18:00 AM »
No offense taken by any means. When it comes to stuff like this I'm extremely slow.

Also politics, sociology and history.

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2013, 10:23:23 AM »
Both players experience the same amount of force on impact.

tu_holmes

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2013, 10:25:40 AM »
I think in this instance you care about Force.

Force = Mass X Acceleration.

The heavier  and the faster, the more force you have.


J. Richards

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2013, 10:28:45 AM »
Do they both lift?   

HockeyFightFan

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2013, 10:38:25 AM »
Both players experience the same amount of force on impact.

But arrive at the point of impact with much different kinetic energies.

 ;D

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2013, 10:40:35 AM »
I think in this instance you care about Force.

Force = Mass X Acceleration.

The heavier  and the faster, the more force you have.


Careful... force [kg *m*s^-2] = mass x acceleration ≠ mass x velocity = momentum [kg*m*s^-1]

If there is no acceleration, there is no force. There is momentum (mass in motion).

What you need, Coach, is to check out elastic/inelastic collision on wikipedia.




tu_holmes

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2013, 10:45:51 AM »
Careful... force [kg *m*s^-2] = mass x acceleration ≠ mass x velocity = momentum [kg*m*s^-1]

If there is no acceleration, there is no force. There is momentum (mass in motion).

What you need, Coach, is to check out elastic collision on wikipedia.





I think the point is to keep it simplistic.


BIG ACH

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2013, 11:11:22 AM »
EDIT:  See answer listed in later post - ignore this one, there is a mistake

Say they are both running 15 mph...And say the impact occurs in half a second....

So to calculate the force, you have:

[(Mass 1 * Velocity 1) - (Mass 2 * velocity 2)]/Time in which the collision occurs = Force

Mass 1 = 270 lbs
Mass 2 = 155 lbs
Velocity 1 = 15 m/h = 22 ft/s
Velocity 2 = -15 m/h = -22 ft/s

[(270 lbs * 22 ft/s) - (155 lbs * - 22 ft/s)] /  0.5 seconds =

(5940 lbs*ft/s + 3410 lbs*ft/s ) / 0.5 s =

9350 lb*ft/s / 0.5 s = 18700 lbs * ft/s^2 = 25,853.677 Newtons

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 11:13:26 AM »
Getbig U is accepting applications  ;D

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2013, 11:15:03 AM »
my answer.

PAIN!

BIG ACH

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2013, 11:17:43 AM »

btw my answer listed above is based on impulse and momentum, and as others stated its based on an inelastic type of collision

Lumberjack88

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Re: Newton's laws of motion
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2013, 11:19:00 AM »
I think the point is to keep it simplistic.

I agree, but... "make things as simple as possible, but not simpler."

To stay on topic: There are two different scenarios after you tackle someone in football, from a physical point of view.

Either the bodies stick together after the collision (which is the case, most of the time, in football, e.g. inelastic collision) or they bounce off of each other (elastic collision).

Since the first case is much more common, here's all you need to know about it:

m1 * v1 + m2 * v2  = (m1 + m2) * vfinal

For example:

Before the collison:

Player 1 (mass = 80 kg) ---- (22 m/s) -->           <-- (-4m/s)---- (mass = 120 kg) Player 2

----> positive x-Axis

After the collision:

vfinal = (m1*v1 + m2*v2) / (m1 + m2) = (80*22 + 120*-4) / (80 + 120)  = 6.4 m/s (in positive x-Axis) -> Player 1 is overrunning Player 2.

                                                                 --- (Player 1 + Player 2  = 200 kg)----- (6.4 m/s) --->

If vfinal is negative, Player 2 will overrun Player 1.

That's really as simple as it gets. Now you can calculate how fast a lighter Player has to run to stand a chance against a much heavier Player.


** had to change / to * before vfinal