ILS AND NSS, there's this physique guy on the circuit Tim Roberts actually I call him Slim Roberts, guy 5 ft 6 150 and thinks he's a bbing workout guru, he's one of the ass kissers out of Orange County ca physique class, these contests are judged on abs and chest a competitors back has to be narrow and arms small to be considered a top class guy, all these are are guys who will never be big or have a full physique but juice their asses off at 160. I know a few of these competitors the guys I know are cool and I just try to encourage them, but guys like tim Roberts need a good 10 minutes of pummeling