Author Topic: Chiropractors more harm than good?  (Read 43932 times)

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #225 on: May 28, 2013, 10:01:24 AM »
I'm on chiclet duty next weekend.

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #226 on: May 28, 2013, 10:12:27 AM »
I actually do know what I'm talking about. Your post refutes nothing that I said. A couple of ancedotal stories about you purportedly finding something in an x-ray is pretty meaningless when one looks at the chiropractic MLM business as a whole.  
Back in the day, when I worked in the state legislature the chiropractors had at least a 1/2 dozen pieces of legislation every session that they were always pushing to expand the scope of their practice. Whether it was being allowed to prescribe medication, read MRIs, being allowed to refer to themselves as "Doctor," etc., there was always something they were lobbying for. And they were usually supported by the plaintiff's personal injury bar, which refers most of its fradulent accident cases to chiropractors to give the cases some element of legitimacy in the eyes of the gullible public. Fortunately, most courts severly limit what a chiropractor can testify to given the acknowledged lack of real medical education or training.
Admittedly, chiropractors don't have the lobby that the real health care industry has, but who does. Health care is big business and big business runs the world.
And please, don't compare chiropractic to veterinary medicine. Veterinarians are legitimate health care professionals with real medical training. The entry standards to get into veterinary school and the accrediting procedures for getting into the profession are comparable to human medicine. If I passed out at the gym due to AAS-induced high blood pressure I'd much rather have a veterinarian have a look at me than "Dr. Chiro."  

Ether showing up with his gimmick account  ::)

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #227 on: May 28, 2013, 10:15:37 AM »
I actually do know what I'm talking about. Your post refutes nothing that I said. A couple of ancedotal stories about you purportedly finding something in an x-ray is pretty meaningless when one looks at the chiropractic MLM business as a whole.  
Back in the day, when I worked in the state legislature the chiropractors had at least a 1/2 dozen pieces of legislation every session that they were always pushing to expand the scope of their practice. Whether it was being allowed to prescribe medication, read MRIs, being allowed to refer to themselves as "Doctor," etc., there was always something they were lobbying for. And they were usually supported by the plaintiff's personal injury bar, which refers most of its fradulent accident cases to chiropractors to give the cases some element of legitimacy in the eyes of the gullible public. Fortunately, most courts severly limit what a chiropractor can testify to given the acknowledged lack of real medical education or training.
Admittedly, chiropractors don't have the lobby that the real health care industry has, but who does. Health care is big business and big business runs the world.
And please, don't compare chiropractic to veterinary medicine. Veterinarians are legitimate health care professionals with real medical training. The entry standards to get into veterinary school and the accrediting procedures for getting into the profession are comparable to human medicine. If I passed out at the gym due to AAS-induced high blood pressure I'd much rather have a veterinarian have a look at me than "Dr. Chiro."  
why can I not use an anecdotal story relating to me making a point when ur argument is full of anecdotal stories?
I whole heartedly agree with u and I am begginig to understand where ur anger is coming from be because it sounds like u n I actually r on the same side and if u read my posts is what I said about about pissng other professions off and steeping on toes. I take back what I said about not hearing about chiros pretending to be mds. Not that the group that was pushing to be able to prescribe certain classes of meds were claiming to be mds but there once again was a recent push for chiros to be able to prescribe certain classes of drugs.
I don't agree with it. Its dumb. If chiros would stick to what we are suppose to be doing chiros would be so busy in their practices they would t have time to worry about all the other bullshit theu supposedly should be doing.
As for the example of of somene passing out at the gym I won't note u w more anecdotal stories, yes ive been involved in thise situations too, but will say that chiros r trained in basic emergency procedures. Again I said basic, but u do understand that when u generalize as in I'd much rather have a vet than a Chiro if I passd out. That's fine. But it also again depends upon that vet or that chiro and wut their personal experiences r etc.

Etc.  I may be remembering wrong cuz I didn't reread ur post but u seem to have a chip on ur shoulders about chiros being doctors. We r doctors. We r not medical doctors.

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #228 on: May 28, 2013, 10:44:24 AM »



LOL This is a very misleading post and was obviously meant to infer that chiropractors accrue more science-based knowledge..Completely Disagree... As for the SCOPE of how Anatomy is taught for Medicine...Medical school -> Objectives are based on clinical and pathological reference...where there is also MORE volume w/ less time ....You are also not including CLINICAL hrs  AND LABS  Try 4 hour Anatomy Labs directly before 5 hour classes on same day! and The preparation for the Steps 1,2 , and 3 Board exams--> Which showcases that u didn't just memorize course load like a robot but have to prove you can apply it w/ clinical relevance.  I have 4  licensed chiropractors as current colleagues/students now in medicine and ALL agree that the material is not even comparable .. where they even complained of not having much of an advantage when taking our anatomy course...which was a wake-up call MONSTER


Further, I will say that the practice of a chiropractor is still very respectable within its limited scope and has its place. Just needed to clarify how NUMBERS can be very misleading....

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #229 on: May 28, 2013, 10:45:20 AM »
LOL This is a very misleading post and was obviously meant to infer that chiropractors accrue more science-based knowledge..Completely Disagree... As for the SCOPE of how Anatomy is taught for Medicine...Medical school -> Objectives are based on clinical and pathological reference...where there is also MORE volume w/ less time ....You are also not including CLINICAL hrs  AND LABS  Try 4 hour Anatomy Labs directly before 5 hour classes on same day! and The preparation for the Steps 1,2 , and 3 Board exams--> Which showcases that u didn't just memorize course load like a robot but have to prove you can apply it w/ clinical relevance.  I have 4  licensed chiropractors as current colleagues/students now in medicine and ALL agree that the material is not even comparable .. where they even complained of not having much of an advantage when taking our anatomy course...which was a wake-up call MONSTER


Further, I will say that the practice of a chiropractor is still very respectable within its limited scope and has its place. Just needed to clarify how NUMBERS can be very misleading....
Thanks for clarifying. I was worried after seeing that chart. As you say, chiropractors are an important part of the medical field. I just think that they are obviously lower on the list.

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #230 on: May 28, 2013, 10:49:53 AM »

LOL This is a very misleading post and was obviously meant to infer that chiropractors accrue more science-based knowledge..Completely Disagree... As for the SCOPE of how Anatomy is taught for Medicine...Medical school -> Objectives are based on clinical and pathological reference...where there is also MORE volume w/ less time ....You are also not including CLINICAL hrs  AND LABS  Try 4 hour Anatomy Labs directly before 5 hour classes on same day! and The preparation for the Steps 1,2 , and 3 Board exams--> Which showcases that u didn't just memorize course load like a robot but have to prove you can apply it w/ clinical relevance.  I have 4  licensed chiropractors as current colleagues/students now in medicine and ALL agree that the material is not even comparable .. where they even complained of not having much of an advantage when taking our anatomy course...which was a wake-up call MONSTER


Further, I will say that the practice of a chiropractor is still very respectable within its limited scope and has its place. Just needed to clarify how NUMBERS can be very misleading....

1- we also have anatomy and chem labs not included on the hours,
2- every state except Illinois requires parts 1-4 National Board Exams. We still have to take those as well.
3- I posted this to show that we didn't just take a weekend course to become a chiropractor. We bust our ass for 8 years to earn the title. It was NOT a dig at MD's.
4-I Appreciate your comment at the end bro. This is the type of attitude almost every physician I've encountered has had.

Danny-Boy

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #231 on: May 28, 2013, 10:50:44 AM »
Thanks for clarifying. I was worried after seeing that chart. As you say, chiropractors are an important part of the medical field. I just think that they are obviously lower on the list.


I am not even mentioning the requirement of getting into Medical school.. AND the type of grades we have to attain and retain...  you can just barely pass our Board exam... but this will pretty much lock you out from receiving ANY residency...  I didn't want to downgrade the chiropractor's profession...but to compare level and intricacy of scientific knowledge and to further degrade medicine's scope...  That's going too far LOL  I just showed that post to my med classmate who's also a former practicing chiropractor and he cannot stop laughing

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #232 on: May 28, 2013, 10:52:56 AM »

LOL This is a very misleading post and was obviously meant to infer that chiropractors accrue more science-based knowledge..Completely Disagree... As for the SCOPE of how Anatomy is taught for Medicine...Medical school -> Objectives are based on clinical and pathological reference...where there is also MORE volume w/ less time ....You are also not including CLINICAL hrs  AND LABS  Try 4 hour Anatomy Labs directly before 5 hour classes on same day! and The preparation for the Steps 1,2 , and 3 Board exams--> Which showcases that u didn't just memorize course load like a robot but have to prove you can apply it w/ clinical relevance.  I have 4  licensed chiropractors as current colleagues/students now in medicine and ALL agree that the material is not even comparable .. where they even complained of not having much of an advantage when taking our anatomy course...which was a wake-up call MONSTER


Further, I will say that the practice of a chiropractor is still very respectable within its limited scope and has its place. Just needed to clarify how NUMBERS can be very misleading....
i don't know first hand exactly what u guys go thru. I am inclined to agree with u. Ur training should be more intense as u treat so much more than we do and  for many other reasons. Can't agree more on sticking with our scope of practice.

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #233 on: May 28, 2013, 10:53:17 AM »
Thanks for clarifying. I was worried after seeing that chart. As you say, chiropractors are an important part of the medical field. I just think that they are obviously lower on the list.

We are not the same thing!!! Hence why we can't be "ranked" in an order of  which health care professional is the best. We all have different functions and different scopes of practice. This is like saying "well I rate my GP over my dentist as the best doctor." MD's play a vital role an have my utmost respect. Even if I have issue with certain allopathic philosophies, it does not change my high opinion of their profession.

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #234 on: May 28, 2013, 10:55:52 AM »
i don't know first hand exactly what u guys go thru. I am inclined to agree with u. Ur training should be more intense as u treat so much more than we do and  for many other reasons. Can't agree more on sticking with our scope of practice.

Exactly. DC's have our strengths in certain areas that are unarguably better than a GP. And vice versa. GP's have a much, much, broader scope of practice.

Danny-Boy

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #235 on: May 28, 2013, 10:57:03 AM »
We are not the same thing!!! Hence why we can't be "ranked" in an order of  which health care professional is the best. We all have different functions and different scopes of practice. This is like saying "well I rate my GP over my dentist as the best doctor." MD's play a vital role an have my utmost respect. Even if I have issue with certain allopathic philosophies, it does not change my high opinion of their profession.

100% agreed ... who cares about ranking.. it's all about practicing what you are interested in practicing... I honestly do not care about comparing what profession is more difficult or what is more superior.. I cannot stand those type of physicians.... The comparison table w/ hrs accrued just caught my eye and had to to make a stand

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #236 on: May 28, 2013, 11:22:13 AM »
I have mds that see me. I have md friends. I have mds I refer to and them to me.

I've lived my life by two basic rules when dealing with people.

1.  Does this guy seem cool? I mean does this person seem like someone I'd like to hang out with? Someone I can trust?
When u strip away someone's title....Chiro, md, auto mechanic, plumber, computer repair. If u r going to use them on a reg basis n have even a working relationship with them do they fit this criteria?
There r geniuses n cool people in all walks of life n all professions. Then there r the "others". And all professions r full of those others. 

2.  Basically my fav saying of all time

The winners in poker are all laughing  and having a good time while the losers are screaming "shut up and deal!"

Me thinks the losers in their professions may possibly be the ones screaming so loudly in this thread.


Necrosis

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #237 on: May 28, 2013, 11:29:36 AM »
where is the research??//

Raymondo

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #238 on: May 28, 2013, 11:31:57 AM »
I have mds that see me. I have md friends. I have mds I refer to and them to me.

I've lived my life by two basic rules when dealing with people.

1.  Does this guy seem cool? I mean does this person seem like someone I'd like to hang out with? Someone I can trust?
When u strip away someone's title....Chiro, md, auto mechanic, plumber, computer repair. If u r going to use them on a reg basis n have even a working relationship with them do they fit this criteria?
There r geniuses n cool people in all walks of life n all professions. Then there r the "others". And all professions r full of those others. 

2.  Basically my fav saying of all time

The winners in poker are all laughing  and having a good time while the losers are screaming "shut up and deal!"

Me thinks the losers in their professions may possibly be the ones screaming so loudly in this thread.



This is the worst crock of shit I have read in Getbig in a long time. And that says something.


Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #239 on: May 28, 2013, 11:43:16 AM »
This is the worst crock of shit I have read in Getbig in a long time. And that says something.


haha!

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #240 on: May 28, 2013, 11:46:32 AM »
where is the research??//
fair question. im on vaca. Linking to research takes more time than to just write responses off the top of my head. If no one else links to it I will when i get home.

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #241 on: May 28, 2013, 11:56:07 AM »
It takes a special kind of imbecile to write what you wrote. You sir, are that imbecile.
always served me well. Tell me what's dumb about it.

Ahh. I reread. Maybe by cool you think I mean cool like slang for "it" crowd. I mean cool like stable, secure as opposed to insecure, decisive, confident etc. I could go on but I'm an imbecile.

Krankenstein

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #242 on: May 28, 2013, 12:24:18 PM »
One thing chiropractors and their very active lobbying arm have done is convince most of the general public that they are essentially medical doctors who simply practice the specialty of "chiropractic" and are no different than doctors who specialize in neurology, orthopedics, radiology, etc. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You are right, nothing could be further from the truth.  Show me one Chiro who has made that type insinuation that we are no different than medical doctors.

Chiropractors do not attend medical school, which, unlike most law schools for example, is still relatively difficult to get into and requires some modicum of intelligence.

Once again, you are right.  We attend chiropractic schools, not medical schools.

Trust me, there's no chiropractic specialty at any legitmate school of medicine.  In fact, most, if not all, chiropractic schools do not even require a college degree for entrance and most states will allow you to be licensed as a Doctor of Chiropractic without a college degree. I'm not saying that a college degree is the be all and end all but how many members of the general public know that their local chiropractor, who goes around calling himself "Doctor," throwing around fancy medical terms, and wearing a stethoscope or other accoutrements of the medical profession, may not have even graduated from college with a liberal arts degree in basket weaving?

I Neither wear a white coat, nor a stethoscope.  Is that ok?  Would a degree in basket weaving make us more legit in your eyes?

If you suddenly find yourself getting ill and someone asks "Is there a doctor in the house?" a chiropractor will do you as much good as an accountant or janitor despite the chiropractors carefully cultivated image of being a "medical professional."

When was the last time someone said "Is there a doctor in the house?"  I had to perform CPR one time, but no one asked if I was a doctor.  Hmm, pray tell where are you going that people say that?

Chiropractic is quackery plain and simple (Google its origins if you don't belive me), that has been given some level of credibility by politicians eager to take chiropractors hefty campaign donations.
Like with everything else, follow the money.  

Shall we discuss the medical profession ENDORSING the smoking of cigarettes back in the 50's?  Yep, gotta love the medical establishment there!

Krankenstein

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #243 on: May 28, 2013, 12:30:26 PM »
I actually do know what I'm talking about. Your post refutes nothing that I said. A couple of ancedotal stories about you purportedly finding something in an x-ray is pretty meaningless when one looks at the chiropractic MLM business as a whole.  
Back in the day, when I worked in the state legislature the chiropractors had at least a 1/2 dozen pieces of legislation every session that they were always pushing to expand the scope of their practice.

So you were a page that did 'favors'?  Is it not the purpose of our legislature to do that?  Perhaps you should have let them know that they weren't allowed to.

Whether it was being allowed to prescribe medication, read MRIs, being allowed to refer to themselves as "Doctor," etc.,

We being referred to as 'Doctor' is way before your time there son.  Please don't think we actually believe you were around for that.  Were you there for the lawsuit on the AMA as well?

there was always something they were lobbying for. And they were usually supported by the plaintiff's personal injury bar, which refers most of its fradulent accident cases to chiropractors to give the cases some element of legitimacy in the eyes of the gullible public. Fortunately, most courts severly limit what a chiropractor can testify to given the acknowledged lack of real medical education or training.

I certainly hope I wouldn't be called to the stand and testify about Col. Mustard in the Library with the candlestick
 
Admittedly, chiropractors don't have the lobby that the real health care industry has, but who does. Health care is big business and big business runs the world.
And please, don't compare chiropractic to veterinary medicine. Veterinarians are legitimate health care professionals with real medical training. The entry standards to get into veterinary school and the accrediting procedures for getting into the profession are comparable to human medicine. If I passed out at the gym due to AAS-induced high blood pressure I'd much rather have a veterinarian have a look at me than "Dr. Chiro."  

Are you even slightly aware what the word "Doctor" means?  Oh, and I sure hope that your dealer has a degree in biochem and a nice sterile lab for the UG shit you put in you.  Have you asked for credentials?  Malpractice insurance?  Etc?  If you passed out from HBP, I would hope that I can figure out how to call 911.  I mean, I don't have a modicum of intelligence but I imagine I could ask someone for the phone number of 911 in order to dial it.

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #244 on: May 28, 2013, 01:22:32 PM »
The eloquence of the chiropractic-defenders is impressive. No doubt these rhetorical skills were learned at prestigious schools of higher education such as Life and Palmer University, or maybe the legendary Cleveland Chirporactic College, where they are undoubtedly doing peer-reviewed research establishing a link between vertebral subluxations and the cure for cancer (and every other malady known to man).  A couple spinal manipulations (buy 10 and get one free if you sign up at the local mall on Saturday) and you'll be GTG.
this is why I love Getbig. This is quite funny n made me laugh  ;D

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #245 on: May 28, 2013, 01:36:02 PM »
I don't even see how you can use a computer with the head so far up your arse.
siri. That's why so many typos due to echo in there

Krankenstein

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #246 on: May 28, 2013, 02:12:50 PM »
The eloquence of the chiropractic-defenders is impressive. No doubt these rhetorical skills were learned at prestigious schools of higher education such as Life and Palmer University, or maybe the legendary Cleveland Chirporactic College, where they are undoubtedly doing peer-reviewed research establishing a link between vertebral subluxations and the cure for cancer (and every other malady known to man).  A couple spinal manipulations (buy 10 and get one free if you sign up at the local mall on Saturday) and you'll be GTG.

No, they were taught here on GB.  What is your original screen name on here by the way?  Are you feverishly hitting the refresh button? 

Oh and the buy 10 get one free thing, thats borderline fee splitting.  Just thought you might want to know.  If you have medicare, then by all means its a no-no.  If you are planning on becoming a 'fee at time of service' patient, then I can have you sign a financial hardship form...provided you commit to 45,323 adjustments over the next year to ensure that your spine is aligned.  One more thing about the mall...I see many eye doctors in a mall.  Are they any less credible because they are in a mall?

I do have a study on the ability of a base posterior sacrum to improve the condition of having your head up your ass (to which you appear to suffer from).  Please call my office and give my office manager your insurance information ASAP so we may begin to help you live a healthy lifestyle.

Slik

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #247 on: May 28, 2013, 02:39:33 PM »
Your comment regarding "eye doctors" at the mall explains a lot. In your mind, the high school drop outs working as opticians in the mall eye glass store are indeed "eye doctors," same as an opthamologist who went to Harvard Medical School. Right? From there, it's not much of a leap to equate what you apparently do to orthopedic or neurological medicine. Heck, why not oncology too. 
And Medicare? Is that your angle? Hustling old people for unnesessary and unproven "treatment." If so, props to you if u can get away w/ it. Like the Don said, it doesn't make any difference to me what a man does for a living.     
your debating skills are very poor at best.  Your arguments are getting so abstract and u r extrapolating conclusions that are really stretching things.  This latest post doesn't even deserve much more of a response than this.

Krankenstein

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #248 on: May 28, 2013, 02:49:35 PM »
Your comment regarding "eye doctors" at the mall explains a lot. In your mind, the high school drop outs working as opticians in the mall eye glass store are indeed "eye doctors," same as an opthamologist who went to Harvard Medical School. Right? From there, it's not much of a leap to equate what you apparently do to orthopedic or neurological medicine. Heck, why not oncology too. 
And Medicare? Is that your angle? Hustling old people for unnesessary and unproven "treatment." If so, props to you if u can get away w/ it. Like the Don said, it doesn't make any difference to me what a man does for a living.     

You sure are worked up Senator 'Cholo'.  When did I say an adjustment is equated to the study of cancer (onco = prefix for swelling/lump/tumor, ology = suffix for the study of)?

What angle with Medicare?  Seeing that you do not understand the stringent guidelines of Medicare, I guess the joke was lost on you.  Explain how I 'hustle' someone with Medicare please.  

By the way, it sure does seem to make a difference what do in light of your posts.  Bet it makes you feel very good to post from a second handle.  What life do you live that you had to create a special handle just to post in this thread.

XO sweetie

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Chiropractors more harm than good?
« Reply #249 on: May 28, 2013, 03:13:19 PM »
Very nice. All the quacks and snake oil salesmen are ganging up on me. 
Anyway, I've go to go soon. I think my mom's almost done with dinner upstairs.

Words of a desperate man losing a battle here. Please, don't leave.