Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting

[Archer77]

That's why I'm asking him to explain, Archer. Yes.

The facts show that each of them was trying to preserve his own safety, Tony.



hahahah and by doing so zimmerman did not break any laws?


I assume he means; by "doing so" or trying to preserve his safety(self defense), Zim didn't break any laws

[Jack T. Cross]

Do you think he made a typo when he phrased it as a question?

[Jack T. Cross]

I'll pick this up later, dudes. See you soon, bros.

[Archer77]

Do you think he made a typo when he phrased it as a question?

No, it appears he was just looking for confirmation.  I can't speak for him and I may be wrong.

[tonymctones]

No, it appears he was just looking for confirmation.  I can't speak for him and I may be wrong.

nope youre spot on, I think any rational person reading the last comments between me and jack would come to the conclusion you did as welll.

[240 is Back]

  But the fact he smoked is all part of the narrative.  Same with the fact Martin was suspended from school for having burglary tools and women's jewelry and for fighting.  No, that doesn't mean he deserved to die.  What it does show is this makes it more likely that the kid was prone to start a confrontation with someone.

Why don't you apply this "narrative" standard to ZImmerman as well?

Yes, trayvon had a history of NONVIOLENT things like burglary and weed, so you can draw the conclusion that made him more likely to start a VIOLENT confrontation?

What about Zimmerman -- He had been accused of domestic violence, and he had been arrested for assault on a cop, and plead down for alcohol treatment.  Yet you look at someone with TWO VIOLENT ACTS on their record, and don't apply the same standard?

Be consistent - Trayvon's activities showed he had a penchant for crime - But zimm's acts showed he had a penchant for VIOLENT CRIMES against other people. I'm fine with people looking at trayvon's record and saying he's a piece of shit, as long as people look at zimmerman and say the same thing.

[tonymctones]

Why don't you apply this "narrative" standard to ZImmerman as well?

Yes, trayvon had a history of NONVIOLENT things like burglary and weed, so you can draw the conclusion that made him more likely to start a VIOLENT confrontation?

What about Zimmerman -- He had been accused of domestic violence, and he had been arrested for assault on a cop, and plead down for alcohol treatment.  Yet you look at someone with TWO VIOLENT ACTS on their record, and don't apply the same standard?

Be consistent - Trayvon's activities showed he had a penchant for crime - But zimm's acts showed he had a penchant for VIOLENT CRIMES against other people. I'm fine with people looking at trayvon's record and saying he's a piece of shit, as long as people look at zimmerman and say the same thing.

lol trayvon had a history of fighting as well.

and so what youre getting at is they were both shit heads?

awesome got it, you get to shit heads togther and shitty things happen

[240 is Back]

lol trayvon had a history of fighting as well.
and so what youre getting at is they were both shit heads?
awesome got it, you get to shit heads togther and shitty things happen

He had a history of fighting?   He tweeted about giving someone a bloody nose?  Is that the same as assaulting a fucking cop?  LOL

And even if it IS the same - I ask beach bum why he applies the narrative to ONE and not BOTH.  I'm fine with your stance that they're both shit heads and thus both likely to start a confrontation.  My whole thing is BB just saying that applies to trayvon - ignoring the fact zimm has these actual assaults, and actually was the one doing the chasing. 

In any case, zimmerman should get a solid 50% chance of starting the fight, considering his record, he was chasing, and oh, he was packing a 9mm.    I just hate inconsistency.  We don't know what happened, and you can't show one person telling us what happened who wasn't shown in court to be a bold faced liar.

[tonymctones]

He had a history of fighting?   He tweeted about giving someone a bloody nose?  Is that the same as assaulting a fucking cop?  LOL

And even if it IS the same - I ask beach bum why he applies the narrative to ONE and not BOTH.  I'm fine with your stance that they're both shit heads and thus both likely to start a confrontation.  My whole thing is BB just saying that applies to trayvon - ignoring the fact zimm has these actual assaults, and actually was the one doing the chasing. 

In any case, zimmerman should get a solid 50% chance of starting the fight, considering his record, he was chasing, and oh, he was packing a 9mm.    I just hate inconsistency.  We don't know what happened, and you can't show one person telling us what happened who wasn't shown in court to be a bold faced liar.

I never said it was the same but to act like he didnt have a history of violence is just plain ignorant, although that is par for the course for your dumb ass

you hate inconsistency but you wont call out trayvon for his violent history and being a shit head...got it

[240 is Back]

I never said it was the same but to act like he didnt have a history of violence is just plain ignorant, although that is par for the course for your dumb ass

you hate inconsistency but you wont call out trayvon for his violent history and being a shit head...got it

I'm not talking about you - I'm talking about beach bum.  Look up "pieces of shit" and you'll see several times i called both of them pieces of shit    I'm just saying we can't look at him boxing and say he's more likely to start a confrontation - when the other guy in the showdown was punching women and shoving cops lol.   If ZImmerman was a peace corps member who knitted in his spare time, then yes, travyon is more likely.  But when both dudes have a record tha is equally violetn (questionable lol) - I tend to think the dude doing the chasing as the aggressor.  Who knows.  anyway, it's about BB saying trayon was MORE likely - I say it's a wash at best.

[Dos Equis]

Why don't you apply this "narrative" standard to ZImmerman as well?

Yes, trayvon had a history of NONVIOLENT things like burglary and weed, so you can draw the conclusion that made him more likely to start a VIOLENT confrontation?

What about Zimmerman -- He had been accused of domestic violence, and he had been arrested for assault on a cop, and plead down for alcohol treatment.  Yet you look at someone with TWO VIOLENT ACTS on their record, and don't apply the same standard?

Be consistent - Trayvon's activities showed he had a penchant for crime - But zimm's acts showed he had a penchant for VIOLENT CRIMES against other people. I'm fine with people looking at trayvon's record and saying he's a piece of shit, as long as people look at zimmerman and say the same thing.

Why don't you tell the truth for a change? 

[240 is Back]

Why don't you tell the truth for a change?  

I think most people would compare the two and call it a draw, at the very least.

Trayvon smoked pot and boasted once about boxing someone?

Zimmerman trained MMA, shoved a cop, allegedly beat up his old lady, and ran after someone he thought was on drugs and possibly armed.

Sorry, but in no world does talking about some boxing compare to taking 18 months of MMA.
Sorry, but in no world does smoking pot make someone more likely to fight, than a person who assaults cops and ellegedly punches women.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, beach bum.  I think they're both pieces of shit, but hey, a dude with a criminal record, assault on LEO, is ALWAYS going to fit a violent narrative more than a teenager who "claims" to box.  Nobody here is going to disagree with that, I'd guess.  Even those that support zimm.

[Shockwave]

I think most people would compare the two and call it a draw, at the very least.

Trayvon smoked pot and boasted once about boxing someone?

Zimmerman trained MMA, shoved a cop, allegedly beat up his old lady, and ran after someone he thought was on drugs and possibly armed.

Sorry, but in no world does talking about some boxing compare to taking 18 months of MMA.
Sorry, but in no world does smoking pot make someone more likely to fight, than a person who assaults cops and ellegedly punches women.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, beach bum.  I think they're both pieces of shit, but hey, a dude with a criminal record, assault on LEO, is ALWAYS going to fit a violent narrative more than a teenager who "claims" to box.  Nobody here is going to disagree with that, I'd guess.  Even those that support zimm.

Assault on a LEO. ... youre still a pathetic liar twisting facts to suite your agenda I see.

[Jack T. Cross]

Okay. Claiming something and "looking to confirm" are usually done in a certain order, but it's great to know you're not jumping to conclusions.

[Jack T. Cross]

This was the deciding time of the event, as claimed by Zimmerman, and was directly copied from his written statement to police:

"I tried to slide out from under the suspect and continue to yell 'Help'. As I slid the suspect covered my mouth and nose and stopped my breathing. At this point I felt the suspect reach for my now exposed firearm and 'Say' 'Your gonna die tonight Mother Fucker'. I unholstered my firearm In fear for my Life as he had assured me he was going to kill Me and fired one shot into his torso."

[240 is Back]

Assault on a LEO. ... youre still a pathetic liar twisting facts to suite your agenda I see.

he plead down to a misdeameanor and got alcohol treatment.

he shoved an undercover cop, even after being told he was an undercover cop.  that's assault on LEO.

Yes, he absolutely put his hands on a fcking cop.  Can a law-abiding citizen like you or I even FATHOM making such a move?  Putting your hands on a person with a badge?  Just impossible.  Just unreal.  Anyone who doesn't talk about it - but actually DOES IT - is in a whole different spectrum when it comes for not giving a shit about the law.  That's just plain outta control there.

VERY RARE is the criminal that goes so far as to assault a cop.  That's just at such a level, it boggles the mind.  And YES, it's a fcking fact, people that put their hands on cops do NOT respect the law and YES, it makes him way more likely to think he can put his hands on a teenager he (mistakenly) thinks stole his bike.


shockwave, I dont understand the kid gloves with zimmerman - he's a piece of shit who puts his hands on old people, women, and cops.  Sure, he pleads and lawyers up, and usually beats the rap.  But we all know it - he's a piece of shit that doesn't respect the law.  Trayvon smoked pot and boxed, yes, piece of shit.  But zimmerman?  Picking on the weak (elderly and female) and shitting on the lawmen that hold our society together?   I dont get how anyone here can defend him for a second.  He's the worst kind of criminal... picking on the weak and those that protect us.  Fuck him, plain and simple, and anyone who says "well, he plead down so technically, he didn't shove a cop!" is lying to themselves. 

[240 is Back]

I dont understand the kid gloves with zimmerman - he's a piece of shit who puts his hands on old people, women, and cops.  Sure, he pleads and lawyers up, and usually beats the rap.  But we all know it - he's a piece of shit that doesn't respect the law.  Trayvon smoked pot and boxed, yes, piece of shit.  But zimmerman?  Picking on the weak (elderly and female) and shitting on the lawmen that hold our society together?   I dont get how anyone here can defend him for a second.  He's the worst kind of criminal... picking on the weak and those that protect us.  Fuck him, plain and simple, and anyone who says "well, he plead down so technically, he didn't shove a cop!" is lying to themselves. 

I think this pretty much sums up why I dislike zimmerman (aside from the whole gun law issue).

He puts his hands on women, old men & cops.  That's it.  He's a piece of shit like none other.  People like him are what make the world a worse place.  Even if you think he did a heroic thing by capping trayvon, it sure doesn't excuse any man from putting his hands on others like that. 

[Option D]

he plead down to a misdeameanor and got alcohol treatment.

he shoved an undercover cop, even after being told he was an undercover cop.  that's assault on LEO.

Yes, he absolutely put his hands on a fcking cop.  Can a law-abiding citizen like you or I even FATHOM making such a move?  Putting your hands on a person with a badge?  Just impossible.  Just unreal.  Anyone who doesn't talk about it - but actually DOES IT - is in a whole different spectrum when it comes for not giving a shit about the law.  That's just plain outta control there.

VERY RARE is the criminal that goes so far as to assault a cop.  That's just at such a level, it boggles the mind.  And YES, it's a fcking fact, people that put their hands on cops do NOT respect the law and YES, it makes him way more likely to think he can put his hands on a teenager he (mistakenly) thinks stole his bike.


shockwave, I dont understand the kid gloves with zimmerman - he's a piece of shit who puts his hands on old people, women, and cops.  Sure, he pleads and lawyers up, and usually beats the rap.  But we all know it - he's a piece of shit that doesn't respect the law.  Trayvon smoked pot and boxed, yes, piece of shit.  But zimmerman?  Picking on the weak (elderly and female) and shitting on the lawmen that hold our society together?   I dont get how anyone here can defend him for a second.  He's the worst kind of criminal... picking on the weak and those that protect us.  Fuck him, plain and simple, and anyone who says "well, he plead down so technically, he didn't shove a cop!" is lying to themselves. 

For the life of me i just didnt understand the stances people here took in this case...i just looked at all of the knowns and its a pretty open and shut thing. But hey, OJ and Casey Anthony both got off... so who knows. 

[Soul Crusher]

For the life of me i just didnt understand the stances people here took in this case...i just looked at all of the knowns and its a pretty open and shut thing. But hey, OJ and Casey Anthony both got off... so who knows. 

Because you are dumb and ignorant of how the legal process works.    That is why you are confused.

[240 is Back]

Because you are dumb and ignorant of how the legal process works.    That is why you are confused.

legally, he got away with it.  The law allowed it.

In reality, 33, you, as a man, would never sit down and have dinner with zimmerman.  You just couldn't.  Never. 

he assaults women, cops, and old people.  He's trash as a person. 

[Soul Crusher]

legally, he got away with it.  The law allowed it.

In reality, 33, you, as a man, would never sit down and have dinner with zimmerman.  You just couldn't.  Never. 

he assaults women, cops, and old people.  He's trash as a person. 

No doubt.   Zimm is a fat loser, but the legal process is more important to uphold than just mob justice like the 95ers wanted

[240 is Back]

No doubt.   Zimm is a fat loser, but the legal process is more important to uphold than just mob justice like the 95ers wanted

The law is too vague, and it allows a person to initiate a threatening situation, then kill their way out of it.

In FL, you're allowed to start a fight - then start losing it and decide you wish to exit - and shoot the person.

You dont know, I dont know who threw the first punch.  Can't believe the fat GF, can't believe zimmerman - both liars.  We know who was losing the fight, sure.  The real problem here is that you're allowed to take a gun and chase someone you think might be up to something.  That's a problem.  You have a gun, you should have a greater responsibility not to aggrivate situations.

I'm just glad you and others don't see zimm as a hero.  He beats women, elderly and cops.  He's trash.  Violent trash that doesn't respect the law.

[Soul Crusher]

And?   No proof he initiated the conflict.  Blame the pos DA for this mess - no one else

The law is too vague, and it allows a person to initiate a threatening situation, then kill their way out of it.

In FL, you're allowed to start a fight - then start losing it and decide you wish to exit - and shoot the person.

You dont know, I dont know who threw the first punch.  Can't believe the fat GF, can't believe zimmerman - both liars.  We know who was losing the fight, sure.  The real problem here is that you're allowed to take a gun and chase someone you think might be up to something.  That's a problem.  You have a gun, you should have a greater responsibility not to aggrivate situations.

I'm just glad you and others don't see zimm as a hero.  He beats women, elderly and cops.  He's trash.  Violent trash that doesn't respect the law.

[Jack T. Cross]

I say the facts of the case are absolutely consistent with a conflict over a gun, and are NOT AT ALL consistent with one person senselessly beating another.

Obviously, a conflict over a gun would immediately point to the person responsible for the gun, and could only rise to such a level due to mishandling of the gun (again, pointing to the same person).

Hope to get into this further, soon, because there are some very important things we haven't discussed.

[Jack T. Cross]

By the way, an unlawful death would mean that Zimmerman's actions leading up to it would become part of a crime. (That's for Tony, before he's able to ask his usual question, which has been answered more than once.)