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Author Topic: Guys who had the title that should not have  (Read 2691 times)
Karl Kox
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There's no Kayfabe in the business anymore.


« on: July 27, 2013, 12:00:04 PM »

Off the top of my head I can think of 3.

Great Kahli or how ever the hell you spell it.
Rey Mysterio
Kerry Von Eric (NWA Title)
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GraniteCityDon
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2013, 01:58:50 PM »

David Arquette

Vince Mcmahon

John Cena - i actually mean this with absolute sincerity

Lex Luger - never rated the guy as world champ material

Christian

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funk51
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2013, 07:26:46 AM »

dolph ziggler.                  the miz Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue
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Montague
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2013, 08:24:12 AM »

Dusty Rhodes.
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GraniteCityDon
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 10:16:21 AM »

Dusty Rhodes.

I backed out of listing Dusty purely because he was so over at that time.
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Montague
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2013, 12:49:27 PM »

I backed out of listing Dusty purely because he was so over at that time.


And, as a devout student of this unique genre of entertainment, I still don't, nor will I ever fully understand why.
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gmflex
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2013, 12:18:44 PM »

John Cena with all his 5 signature moves
Kevin Nash
zezus (no holds barred)
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Montague
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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 04:25:43 PM »

John Cena with all his 5 signature moves
Kevin Nash
zezus (no holds barred)



Cena is at least marketable, so I can understand their reasoning.
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polychronopolous
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« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 04:32:58 PM »

Off the top of my head I can think of 3.

Great Kahli or how ever the hell you spell it.
Rey Mysterio
Kerry Von Eric (NWA Title)


A clear headed, sober and focused Kerry Von Erich could have definitely held the NWA strap. He had one of the best looks ever and was over wherever he went, especially in the southern regions. Even IF all that was put together he is still not in Flair's league but THAT Kerry Von Erich would have been justified in holding down the position occasionally.
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funk51
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2013, 06:20:53 AM »

A clear headed, sober and focused Kerry Von Erich could have definitely held the NWA strap. He had one of the best looks ever and was over wherever he went, especially in the southern regions. Even IF all that was put together he is still not in Flair's league but THAT Kerry Von Erich would have been justified in holding down the position occasionally.
kerry von erich look=9,  ring skills 7. mic skills 4.5   unfortunately mic skills count too much esp now days see the miz as compared to john morrison.


* kerryandchrisvonerich.jpg (64.07 KB, 576x716 - viewed 165 times.)
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tu_holmes
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2013, 06:44:12 AM »

I can't believe some of the people you're putting on here.

Rey and Kerry were both completely title worthy...

Khali I agree with.

Miz too. (I love Ziggler)


My batch for guys that should not have won.
Ron Killings (R-Truth) in TNA
Vince Russo (No explanation needed)
Jack Swagger
Jeff Jarrett
Ron Garvin

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GraniteCityDon
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2013, 07:07:07 AM »

kerry von erich look=9,  ring skills 7. mic skills 4.5   unfortunately mic skills count too much esp now days see the miz as compared to john morrison.

Used to laugh like hell when Heenan would proclaim from the broadcast table, "million dollar body and a 10 cent brain" ha ha
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OLE BIG
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2013, 12:41:48 PM »

All you boys and your hatred for Big Dust.  Trust me, I hated him worse, but if getting over is part of being champion, he was as deserving as anyone.

I will go with Ron Garvin.  He pretty much flopped as much as anyone I can think of.
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polychronopolous
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So David slew The Giant Philistine 1 Samuel 17


« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2013, 09:59:00 PM »

kerry von erich look=9,  ring skills 7. mic skills 4.5   unfortunately mic skills count too much esp now days see the miz as compared to john morrison.

It depends on which Kerry Von Erich. The pre 1986 motorcycle wreck, 2 functional feet Kerry was a helluva lot more athletic and mobile in the ring. Strong, agile, possibly the most over wrestler(with David Von Erich and Michael Hayes) in arguably the most popular organization(although short lived) Even if you look at Kerry's earliest WWF New York matches when he was 19 or 20 years as basically a kid he already had a pretty polished look and was very comfortable in the ring with older veterans...you gotta figure he had been wrestling with his bros under his dads eye his whole childhood. And for 19 years old he already looked pretty awesome physique wise too. I think Vince always remembered seeing that young kid as he worked ring side commentator and that planted the seed that eventually would bring kerry to WWF in the early 90s and give him the push to IC champ.

By the time he reached WWF let's face it his life was going down the drain. 3 of his brothers were dead, he had a extremely debilitating addiction to painkillers, he was wrestling on one foot, his marriage was crumbling, all the previous years of hard living were beginning to have their effect. Even throughout all that he was still extremely OVER until the very end. I think Kerry's ability to work over a crowd really was pretty spectacular and that basically transcended his whole career.

But in the end, as stated in this thread, Kerry exemplified the classic "dumb jock". Even when you hear stories about Kerry by people who were around him at the time they'll generally say "he was a great guy, loved his fans and family" but the guy was really just a good hearted dumbass for lack of a better term.
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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2013, 02:31:57 AM »

It depends on which Kerry Von Erich. The pre 1986 motorcycle wreck, 2 functional feet Kerry was a helluva lot more athletic and mobile in the ring. Strong, agile, possibly the most over wrestler(with David Von Erich and Michael Hayes) in arguably the most popular organization(although short lived) Even if you look at Kerry's earliest WWF New York matches when he was 19 or 20 years as basically a kid he already had a pretty polished look and was very comfortable in the ring with older veterans...you gotta figure he had been wrestling with his bros under his dads eye his whole childhood. And for 19 years old he already looked pretty awesome physique wise too. I think Vince always remembered seeing that young kid as he worked ring side commentator and that planted the seed that eventually would bring kerry to WWF in the early 90s and give him the push to IC champ.

By the time he reached WWF let's face it his life was going down the drain. 3 of his brothers were dead, he had a extremely debilitating addiction to painkillers, he was wrestling on one foot, his marriage was crumbling, all the previous years of hard living were beginning to have their effect. Even throughout all that he was still extremely OVER until the very end. I think Kerry's ability to work over a crowd really was pretty spectacular and that basically transcended his whole career.

But in the end, as stated in this thread, Kerry exemplified the classic "dumb jock". Even when you hear stories about Kerry by people who were around him at the time they'll generally say "he was a great guy, loved his fans and family" but the guy was really just a good hearted dumbass for lack of a better term.


That is very spot-on from what I know, as well; and the part about Vince is quite insightful.
Do you think the old man brought Kerry to the Fed and pushed him because of his (then) current performance, was it based on Kerry's past work, or in hopes that he would improve?

Do you believe that Kerry was as over during his WWF run as he was down South?
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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2013, 03:40:23 AM »

"The smell of victory feels so good"

ha ha, excellent performer but his mic skills just throw him under a bus!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3cChfYhunY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3cChfYhunY</a>
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Karl Kox
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There's no Kayfabe in the business anymore.


« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2013, 05:46:31 AM »


That is very spot-on from what I know, as well; and the part about Vince is quite insightful.
Do you think the old man brought Kerry to the Fed and pushed him because of his (then) current performance, was it based on Kerry's past work, or in hopes that he would improve?

Do you believe that Kerry was as over during his WWF run as he was down South?


Me living in Dallas I can tell you he was more over down here than in WWF. All the Von Erics were.
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Karl Kox
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There's no Kayfabe in the business anymore.


« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2013, 05:51:11 AM »

I totally forgot about Vince Russo and David Arquette having the belt in WCW. That is a disgrace to all the hard working guys in the locker room. That was one of the just many stupid things WCW did to try and get ratings,

Dusty have the title does not bother me he was over and so was The Miz at the time when he had the WWE title.
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« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2013, 03:48:18 PM »


Me living in Dallas I can tell you he was more over down here than in WWF. All the Von Erics were.



That's what I figured.

Did your families know each other?
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« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2013, 03:49:27 PM »

Dusty have the title does not bother me he was over and so was The Miz at the time when he had the WWE title.


On, I'm not disputing that Rhodes was over; I know he was.
I just for the life of me can't understand why.
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Karl Kox
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There's no Kayfabe in the business anymore.


« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2013, 03:52:08 PM »

Yes sir. The Old man and Fritz were tag partners maybe even tag champs together in the 60's (Long before my time). Then in the 80's at the end of my dads carrer he moved to Dallas and worked for Fritz.
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Karl Kox
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There's no Kayfabe in the business anymore.


« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2013, 03:57:25 PM »


On, I'm not disputing that Rhodes was over; I know he was.
I just for the life of me can't understand why.

Dude hes the son of a plumber and a blue collar working man. He relates to the people.  Roll Eyes

I agree I don't understand It .

Dusty's ego was huge also. For the short period of time in Florida when my dad was face he Dusty was the reason he turned back heel. He thought my dad was getting more over then he was. They were good friends so my dad didn't argue.
When I was a little kid I took a picture at Dusty's house of the shrine he had for himself. I'll have to find it.
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Montague
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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2013, 04:22:14 PM »

When I was a little kid I took a picture at Dusty's house of the shrine he had for himself. I'll have to find it.


The fact that the man has a shrine to himself in his own house doesn't surprise me one bit.
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polychronopolous
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So David slew The Giant Philistine 1 Samuel 17


« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2013, 09:33:08 PM »


That is very spot-on from what I know, as well; and the part about Vince is quite insightful.
Do you think the old man brought Kerry to the Fed and pushed him because of his (then) current performance, was it based on Kerry's past work, or in hopes that he would improve?

Do you believe that Kerry was as over during his WWF run as he was down South?

In The von erichs prime during during WCCW they had a hard time even getting to the ring because of the mob that surrounded them on their entrance. Especially so with Kerry. The list of all time wrestlers that had the fans behind him as much as he did during WCCW is really short. With that being said, I think his transition to WWF was incredibly smooth and he was very much over there from day one. He had the crossover appeal of the women being crazy about his look plus all the other male fans who already knew about him.

It's been said by many different people on forums and said to have been quoted by a few writers that Vince Jr wanted Kerry from almost the very get go. Of course one name, Fritz von erich, made this an impossibility. By the late 80's Fritz was out of the business and I'm certain fritz gave kerry his blessing to head to the northeast. In Kevin's own words Fritz would sit up and watch Raw and other WWF shows so the old man probably got a kick seeing his son on the big stage.

I don't really know now much faith Vince had in Kerry to make a splash but there has to be something behind his fast rise to beating Hennig for the IC belt but almost just as fast jobbing for mid carders and up and comers like The Undertaker. I remember him also jobbing for Sid Vicious towards the end at WCCW/USWA (or whatever it was at the time) That just leads me to spectulate it had to be based on drugs or unreliability.

I think Kerry was just tailor made for Vince. The bodybuilder type look that Vince always has sought after, a proven popular commodity with a succesful track record of being popular plus on the sentimental/emotional aspect, the fact that Kerry and Kevin originally worked for Vince Sr. when Jr. was ringside commentator and worked that old school "Pre Hogan" wrestling style then that we've discussed where the matches had such a sporty, "legit" look to them, more strict rules, straightforward commentary with all the moves being announced....mixing it up with all the old school ham and egger heels. Who knows how far back Vince Sr and Fritz went back? Or what conversations Vince Sr and Jr had about the Von Erich boys? I think Vince would have given him all the opportunity in the world but it's like Kevin also said "my brother wasn't shady or anything like that he was just a guy who really liked to do drugs. It was his thing"
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polychronopolous
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So David slew The Giant Philistine 1 Samuel 17


« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2013, 09:42:58 PM »

"The smell of victory feels so good"

ha ha, excellent performer but his mic skills just throw him under a bus!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3cChfYhunY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3cChfYhunY</a>

The stories of his ditziness are just incredible. Tying his boot laces together then getting up and falling down, falling asleep in his car out front of the building he was set to perform and having to be woken up and rushed to the ring, messed up out of his mind and looking out into the crowd for some girl during a Rick Flair match, being late to matches because he couldn't read directions properly, wearing a mask while also wearing a jacket that said "Kerry" on the back, running his motorcycle into a cop car while wearing nothing but running shorts(no helmet, shirt or shoes) and having to have his foot amputated because he got up to walk across the room for a cheeseburger before it was properly healed(although I don't know if that one is true or not)

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