Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.

[Thick Nick]

I paid more than that last year

what does that have to do with Health Insurance

If you just want to piss and moan (which is what appears to be the only thing that Repubs can ever do) then carry on

What does it have to do? Not sure if serious...

Taxes HAVE to go up to pay for this mess. I don't want to give more that...is.... All.

[Straw Man]

What does it have to do? Not sure if serious...

Taxes HAVE to go up to pay for this mess. I don't want to give more that...is.... All.

so you're saying the 40k you paid in 2012 is somehow related to this healthcare law

connect those dots because taxes didn't go up last year and except for a few specific provisions in the tax code (like the tanning bed tax and a few others) I don't see how you bitching about your taxes is related to bitching about the ACA

[Archer77]

so you're saying the 40k you paid in 2012 is somehow related to this healthcare law

connect those dots because taxes didn't go up last year and except for a few specific provisions in the tax code (like the tanning bed tax and a few others) I don't see how you bitching about your taxes is related to bitching about the ACA

Where will the money come from to pay for subsidies for the uninsured?   How are businesses going to respond?  Will it be less expensive than my current insurance!  I don't know much about it.  

[Straw Man]

Where will the money come from to pay for subsidies for the uninsured?   How are businesses going to respond?  Will it be less expensive than my current insurance!  I don't know much about it.  

Then why didn't you find out?  Start here.

www.google.com


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/opinion/do-american-sikhs-count.html?_r=0

[Archer77]

?  I want to know more about ACA.  You seem familiar with its intricacies and I'm not. 

[Fury]

LOL - yeah so many people tried to sign up on the first day that the system couldn't deal with the volume

what more proof do you need that everyone hates this law

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahahaha, this guy has to be a gimmick account.

Check the polls, genius. The majority of the country still hates this law.

How cute that you think the glitches had anything to do with volume. 2 years and they can't even get it right. Boy, government sure does rock!

[Soul Crusher]

Millions of people shop at ebay, amazon, etc daily - doesn't seem to be a problem

[JOHN MATRIX]

Obama could pass a mandate stating that every citizen must get fucked in the ass by a herpes infested bear or pay a fine, and Strawman would be on here defending it.

[AndreaRyc]

You anti-gov crowd better cozy up with the fact that the ACA / ObamaCare is the law of the land and there is absolutely nothing you or Tom Kruz can do about it.  Except throw a hissy fit, I guess.  B/c I'll be damned if we burden our countrymen with unnecessary healthcare coverage...or unwanted education for that matter.  Hell, while we're at it, let's ice bathing as well.

Now, like good citizens, line up and fork over your proof of insurance cards. 

[Straw Man]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahahaha, this guy has to be a gimmick account.

Check the polls, genius. The majority of the country still hates this law.

How cute that you think the glitches had anything to do with volume. 2 years and they can't even get it right. Boy, government sure does rock!

How stupid that you don't

then again, being a complete moron is what you're known for on this board

[bears]

You anti-gov crowd better cozy up with the fact that the ACA / ObamaCare is the law of the land and there is absolutely nothing you or Tom Kruz can do about it.  Except throw a hissy fit, I guess.  B/c I'll be damned if we burden our countrymen with unnecessary healthcare coverage...or unwanted education for that matter.  Hell, while we're at it, let's ice bathing as well.

Now, like good citizens, line up and fork over your proof of insurance cards. 

i for one, hope that you are correct.  i dont think i will able to afford my Blue Cross Blue shield for very much longer and i am most probably going to be forced to buy off of the government exchange.  so i want Obamacare to be a success.  Maybe it will.  However I'm very skeptical right now.  

what bothers me is your devout loyalty to a program that no one knows much about yet.  your religious faith in a program that hasnt even begun to be implemented is flat out weird.  how are you so sure that this will be such a sweeping success?  do you not even allow for the belief that there is room for error?

if i didn't know any better i would think you were a mindless ideologue.    

[AndreaRyc]

i for one, hope that you are correct.  i dont think i will able to afford my Blue Cross Blue shield for very much longer and i am most probably going to be forced to buy off of the government exchange.  so i want Obamacare to be a success.  Maybe it will.  However I'm very skeptical right now.  

what bothers me is your devout loyalty to a program that no one knows much about yet.  your religious faith in a program that hasnt even begun to be implemented is flat out weird.  how are you so sure that this will be such a sweeping success?  do you not even allow for the belief that there is room for error?

if i didn't know any better i would think you were a mindless ideologue.    

I'm no ideologue.  bm chk.


What concerns me is your patently false concern about me. 

Apparently I have a 'devout loyalty to a program that no one knows much about yet'.  Many many people know about how the ACA operates.  If you don't here's some help:
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/09/29/2682291/obamacare-questions-2/

I don't care for the ACA.  I think we should have Medicare for all universal HCC.

But the ACA is better than anything currently proffered by the neo-nazi party.  Hell, the ACA is a boon to big insurance.  How do I know that?  Its antecedents are republican and I read the law. 

I'm no fan of making the comfortable more comfortable.  That's where I might be devout.

But here's mud in your eye to 20 years of success under Obama Care.

I mean I wouldn't wish America to fail, would you?

[Archer77]

the ACA is a boon to big insurance.  How do I know that?  Its antecedents are republican and I read the law. 

I like this guy.

[bears]

The big changes under Obamacare mostly affect the Americans who don’t already have insurance. If you already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, or Medicaid nothing about that will change. You’ll continue to have the same plan and it will continue to be administered in the same way. (You should receive a notice from your insurance company explaining whether or not your plan is compliant under Obamacare, and notifying you about the new exchanges opening next month.) If you’re self-employed and you buy your insurance on the individual market, you might want to compare your current plan to the new plans that will be offered on Obamacare’s marketplaces — you could be able to choose a cheaper option.

yeah nothing did change......except my monthly premium.  it's going to increase by 46% in 2014.  my "cheaper option" now.  is that going to be an insurance policy thats just as good as the one i have now?   and it will be cheaper?  i don't have those answers yet.  and neither do you.  

i don't care what your little website says.  it's obviously misleading.  they explicity say in their Q&A, "If you already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, or Medicaid nothing about that will change."  they were right.  nothing will change.  EXCEPT MY PREMIUMS ARE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF.  they don't think that the monthly premium you're going to have to pay is a relevant part of your health insurance?  to me that's THE most important part.  

again, i'm dealing with this issue in real life.  i have a family and employees to take care of.  this is not an ideological debate for me.  I'm cutting checks to pay for this.  this has an immediate impact on my business and my family.

again, no one hopes that you're right more than i do.  i just don't see why you think this is such a slam dunk.  and i can't help but see you as naive because you do.

[Archer77]

I'm no ideologue.  bm chk.


What concerns me is your patently false concern about me. 

Apparently I have a 'devout loyalty to a program that no one knows much about yet'.  Many many people know about how the ACA operates.  If you don't here's some help:
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/09/29/2682291/obamacare-questions-2/

I don't care for the ACA.  I think we should have Medicare for all universal HCC.

But the ACA is better than anything currently proffered by the neo-nazi party.  Hell, the ACA is a boon to big insurance.  How do I know that?  Its antecedents are republican and I read the law. 

I'm no fan of making the comfortable more comfortable.  That's where I might be devout.

But here's mud in your eye to 20 years of success under Obama Care.

I mean I wouldn't wish America to fail, would you?

Thinkprogress probably isn't the best site to reference.   

[AndreaRyc]

Thinkprogress probably isn't the best site to reference.   

Oh it is when you're 'debating' the fringe element.

Besides, I scanned the article and it is pretty much accurate.  I'm not a shoot the messenger guy like these rightwing meatheads.  Fox news or Thinkprogress...  If Satan is accurate with his descriptions, then the Devil is bringing the good news.

[Archer77]

Oh it is when you're 'debating' the fringe element.

Besides, I scanned the article and it is pretty much accurate.  I'm not a shoot the messenger guy like these rightwing meatheads.  Fox news or Thinkprogress...  If Satan is accurate with his descriptions, then the Devil is bringing the good news.

I mentioned this only because others are bound to.

[avxo]

Mandatory insurance is cohesive.   A grown man of 26 should not be on their parents insurance either.  By 26 you are an adult and should be able to support yourself.


"In St. Louis, for instance, a family of four making $50,000 a year will be able to buy a middle-of-the-road “silver” health plan for $282 a month and a bottom-end “bronze” plan for $32. Even Medicare recipients will get a benefit worth a few hundred dollars a year."


I predicted a tiered insurance system years ago.  A tiered system isn't going to provide equal quality coverage to all people.  A bronze level plan may well be as bad or worse than an HMO.

No system can provide equal quality coverage to all people and "equality" is bogus in this context anyways.

[AndreaRyc]

I mentioned this only because others are bound to.

I know.  My opponents are people who've devoted their political / philosophical lives to supporting ideas / movements that undercut their own positions in life.  They, in turn, relish sticking it to their neighbors.  That is not acceptable.  That's wrong-headed and cruel.

These people have backed the wrong pony their whole lives and they are riding it straight off a cliff.  In their sour, misguided lives, they want to take as many of us down as they can.

But yet they speak of freedom and responsibility and whatever else they imagine as good values. 

To me, for the most part, they are intentionally uninformed, marginally talented losers.

[Archer77]

No system can provide equal quality coverage to all people and "equality" is a bogus in this context anyways.

You're probably right.

[whork]

they wont, these people are as set in the next elections are as pelosi is in hers...if that bat shit crazy broad can get re-elected these people will have a breeze getting re-elected

I agree Pelosi is fucked in the head but she is not punishing the taxpayers like the republicans does in this instance.

[whork]

This is a troubling myth.  The Market is perfect in operation and the government only interferes with that perfection.

That misunderstanding has to go.  There is no free market, no money, no nothing without government.  Government makes those things possible.  It's the private sector that corrupts the marketplace...making it inefficient while bastardizing competition to ensure market domninance by the few who own the USA, its gov. and its people.

In a way, Kristol was right...success of any remedial healthcare plan is disastrous.....for the monied elite.  It's great for everyone else though.  Federal intrusion (fair laws) forces the monied elite to act like human beings for once.  Plus, for healthcare, it removes the absolute yoke that Employer's have on workers...tethering labor to shitty jobs out of fear for loss of health benefits.


But is this necessary?  Why, with a little hard work, we can all be above average entrepreneurial business owners.  Only problem is, no one is left to do the labor.  So it is in our best interests to make sure that labor and the lesser economic classes are cared for.

Good post

[whork]

the bottom line is this.  you can read all of the polls and read all of the articles you want.  but the fact remains is that Obamacare is forcing employers like me out of the private market and into the government program. 

So what? The private market as you called it sucked. Denying people health insurance, effectively killing them kids included.

 thats not to be debated anymore.  Obama was correct when he said that my health care plan won't be affected at all.  i will still be able to see all the same doctors that i was seeing.  however he failed to mention the fact that the mandates set forth by his administration will cause my health care premiums to increase by more than 40%. 

and maybe purchasing health care fromt he exchange is not going to hurt me in the long run.  my mind is open to the fact that it may even work out better for me and my family.

but the fact that some people on here are displaying an unwaivering confidence in the ability of the US government to maintain and monitor this gigantic health care exchange just plainly shows that those people are either:

1. a complete fucking idiot.
or
2. an ideologue who doesn't care what happens.  you're bought and sold already.

if you support what the Obama administration is doing OK.  i can respect that.  but unless you're going into this with a large degree of professional skepticism you're just a media baby who in my opinion should not be voting. 

[bears]

"So what? The private market as you called it sucked. Denying people health insurance, effectively killing them kids included."

it did suck.  i just don't necessarily support the idea that the US government is going to do a better job.  if they can i'm all for it.  but there's absolutely nothing that leads me to believe that they can.  they have to control costs and maximize revenue just like a private insurance company.  how are costs going to stay down with millions upon millions more people to pay for?  how do they maximize revenues without raising taxes.....on everyone?  not just the rich. 

i know everyone loves Obama and thinks the democrats are the good guys.  but at the end of the day the federal government is going to have a budget just like any other for profit company.  the idea that good intentions will lead to progress is being beaten in your head by the televison set every day.  this is the platform that the liberal democrats have taken with regards to health insurance.  "corporations are evil.  that's why it's not working" 

from what I see, we're going to see if the "good guys" can perform this function more efficiently than the "bad guys". 

and again, i'm rooting for Obamacare.  Im being forced into this exchange.  you have unwaivering confidence that I will be better off buying off of the exchange than i was before.  my question is, do you really know that?  or are you just a fan of Obama because you voted for him?   

[Archer77]

"So what? The private market as you called it sucked. Denying people health insurance, effectively killing them kids included."

it did suck.  i just don't necessarily support the idea that the US government is going to do a better job.  if they can i'm all for it.  but there's absolutely nothing that leads me to believe that they can.  they have to control costs and maximize revenue just like a private insurance company.  how are costs going to stay down with millions upon millions more people to pay for?  how do they maximize revenues without raising taxes.....on everyone?  not just the rich. 

i know everyone loves Obama and thinks the democrats are the good guys.  but at the end of the day the federal government is going to have a budget just like any other for profit company.  the idea that good intentions will lead to progress is being beaten in your head by the televison set every day.  this is the platform that the liberal democrats have taken with regards to health insurance.  "corporations are evil.  that's why it's not working" 

from what I see, we're going to see if the "good guys" can perform this function more efficiently than the "bad guys". 

and again, i'm rooting for Obamacare.  Im being forced into this exchange.  you have unwaivering confidence that I will be better off buying off of the exchange than i was before.  my question is, do you really know that?  or are you just a fan of Obama because you voted for him?   

My sentiments exactly.  Its a wait and see situation for me.   There are still a lot of questions to be answered and a lot of the information out there, on both sides of the issue, is speculation.