Author Topic: will america be a socialist state by 2017?  (Read 1331 times)

Archer77

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2013, 01:16:41 PM »
Illegal immigration is not a problem in the US.  

Besides, anyone can see that this is how the poor and disenfranchised succeed in life.

Yes it is a problem.  It drives down wages and creates job competition with native citizens for low skill jobs.
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AndreaRyc

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2013, 01:42:36 PM »
Sorry pal but you're falling for xenophobia.

Illegal immigration is not a big problem.

In light of the effects of our casino economy, wealth disparity, income inequality, frozen wages, death of the 40 hour workweek, a poisoned gulf, and the like, I'd say illegal immigration falls somewhere before teen pregnancy and after elderly colitis.

Besides, when brown people become the majority in this country (it's right around the corner), think of how the borders will just be opened. Who's going to stop the majority? Hell, we might even be annexed by Mexico.

Seriously though, amnesty is always the first step in battling illegal immigrants. Reagan did it.

Then we change our border security and / or laws and the process continues.

Yawn.

Archer77

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2013, 01:47:24 PM »
Sorry pal but you're falling for xenophobia.

Illegal immigration is not a big problem.

In light of the effects of our casino economy, wealth disparity, income inequality, frozen wages, death of the 40 hour workweek, a poisoned gulf, and the like, I'd say illegal immigration falls somewhere before teen pregnancy and after elderly colitis.

Besides, when brown people become the majority in this country (it's right around the corner), think of how the borders will just be opened. Who's going to stop the majority? Hell, we might even be annexed by Mexico.

Seriously though, amnesty is always the first step in battling illegal immigrants. Reagan did it.

Then we change our border security and / or laws and the process continues.

Yawn.


Reagan did it with the promise of improved border control to put an end to the influx of illegals.  He also promised the United States wouldn't be doing something like that again.  He failed.  

You're exceptionally short sighted. Five ways amnesty will help the country?
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JOHN MATRIX

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2013, 01:57:03 PM »
Wtf why are my posts getting deleted???

And andre there is so much wrong with your posts I don't even know where to start lol

Archer77

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2013, 01:57:50 PM »
Wtf why are my posts getting deleted???

And andre there is so much wrong with your posts I don't even know where to start lol

I noticed it was gone.
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AndreaRyc

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2013, 02:17:28 PM »
Reagan did it with the promise of improved border control to put an end to the influx of illegals.  He also promised the United States wouldn't be doing something like that again.  He failed.  

You're exceptionally short sighted. Five ways amnesty will help the country?

When I'm shortsighted, my penis looks much longer.  To a man like me, that's a difference maker.  Again, immigration is not a big problem.

Immigrants work, pay their taxes, if illegal-they see none of the benefits they paid for.  Not to sound racist but they are hard workers.  They don't sit around and whine, they work.  I like that.  I'll give it a shot.

Archer77

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2013, 02:30:40 PM »
When I'm shortsighted, my penis looks much longer.  To a man like me, that's a difference maker.  Again, immigration is not a big problem.

Immigrants work, pay their taxes, if illegal-they see none of the benefits they paid for.  Not to sound racist but they are hard workers.  They don't sit around and whine, they work.  I like that.  I'll give it a shot.


Do they on average pay more in taxes than they collect in services?   What is the average yearly wage for an illegal immigrant?  High enough to pay income tax if they could?  How much in benefits does the average child of an illegal immigrant receive over a life time.  What are their crime rates?  How are they benefitting the US?

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avxo

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2013, 02:40:14 PM »
There's exactly zero chance that America will adopt socialism, and certainly not by 2017.

Tangentially, it's really funny to see the word "socialism" being trotted around here by some, since it's clear from the manner in which they're using it that they have no idea what the word means or the political and economic system that it implies. Socialism describes a society in which the means of production and the goods produced are owned by the citizens collectively, and that the exchange of goods, and the distribution of the resulting profits is decided by those citizens.

How would we get to such a socio-economic and socio-political structure starting from where we are today?

The Constitution features robust protection property rights (modulo the aberrant interpretation of eminent domain) and provides no framework through which the means of production would transition from private ownership to some kind of "collectivized" ownership, and without such collectivized ownership you cannot have socialism.

Under what possible legal theory could the Government control how private profits are to distributed?

Straw Man

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2013, 02:55:39 PM »
There's exactly zero chance that America will adopt socialism, and certainly not by 2017.

Tangentially, it's really funny to see the word "socialism" being trotted around here by some, since it's clear from the manner in which they're using it that they have no idea what the word means or the political and economic system that it implies. Socialism describes a society in which the means of production and the goods produced are owned by the citizens collectively, and that the exchange of goods, and the distribution of the resulting profits is decided by those citizens.

How would we get to such a socio-economic and socio-political structure starting from where we are today?

The Constitution features robust protection property rights (modulo the aberrant interpretation of eminent domain) and provides no framework through which the means of production would transition from private ownership to some kind of "collectivized" ownership, and without such collectivized ownership you cannot have socialism.

Under what possible legal theory could the Government control how private profits are to distributed?


it sounds like you're talking about communism and not socialism though I completely agree with you that it's a fucking absurd notion to suggest somehow Dems can (or would even want to) turn the country into a socialist state by 2017 (or any time)

avxo

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2013, 05:33:27 PM »
it sounds like you're talking about communism and not socialism though I completely agree with you that it's a fucking absurd notion to suggest somehow Dems can (or would even want to) turn the country into a socialist state by 2017 (or any time)

No, I meant socialism. Communism is socialism, just with extra sauce... it's socialism on steroids, adding an all-encompassing socio-political ideology. My favorite analogy is to say that if socialism is a slice of cheesecake then communism is large slice of strawberry cheesecake smothered with fresh strawberries and strawberry syrup on top. Mmmm... cheesecake!

There are a few differences (especially in practice) but, in the context of your post, I think that the salient point is that in socialism the workers own the means of production whereas in Communism the State owns the means of production. Granted, it's a rather subtle distinction.

As for the Democrats intentions, I have the suspicion that some wouldn't mind moving us much closer to socialism. Some have just about said as much, and others telegraph it by telling us how much they admire other "progressive" countries and how we need to stop being "old-fashioned" and get with the times. But I doubt that they have intra-party support, to say nothing of inter-party support. And that's a good thing.

Mr. Magoo

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Re: will america be a socialist state by 2017?
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2013, 05:54:18 PM »
It'll be 2039....