Author Topic: Upperbody ideal  (Read 13442 times)

Bluto

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Upperbody ideal
« on: December 29, 2005, 03:27:22 PM »
These days a lot of people on the boards bash the bodybuilders of the 70's because their lower bodies wasnt as developed as their upper bodies, well who says theyre suppose to be? You make it sound like the X-form is the final say in how we look at physiques and it's the "right" way to view the human body Why's that? What gave you that idea?
Apparantely most people outside the bodybuilding scene doesnt agree, how many male models, celebrities, moviestars and so on are famous for their incredible legs and calves development? Has anyone even seen the legs of Vin Diesel? And when talking about the legs of Jean-Claude van Damme it's his flexibility and ability to kick someone in the head with a spinning kick, not the size of his quads people admire.
A lot of people, even to this day, consider Arnolds physique the best of all time, even with his legs being noticably smaller in comparison.
And if you do believe that the lower body and upper body should match, do you have that as a preference for women too? If so, better stay out of the Symmetrical Sistas thead, because none of their upper bodies match their lower bodies I can tell you that... their symmetry is seriously flawed. Or the opposite, in this day and age of silicone breasts, better make sure the tits isn't too big compared to the legs, or calves.
And one thing more, some bodyparts are for some reason, accepted to be out of proportion and bigger... arms being one of them, why's that? Is it even possible to have too big arms?

Just curious how a "standard" and an ideal comes about. From what I can tell, most people in the world doesn't agree with it.

Z

GMCtrk

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2005, 03:29:15 PM »
That's becuase with the clothes people wear, most of the time you can't see their quads. Personally I think anyone looks rediculous with huge upper body and small legs.

Bluto

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2005, 03:31:17 PM »
That's becuase with the clothes people wear, most of the time you can't see their quads. Personally I think anyone looks rediculous with huge upper body and small legs.

And why do you think that? Does that include Arnold? Or women?
Z

Borracho

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2005, 03:39:46 PM »

From what I can tell, most people in the world doesn't agree with it.



Thats cause "most people in the world" are a bunch of fucking idiots.
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Borracho

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2005, 03:42:39 PM »
And why do you think that? Does that include Arnold? Or women?



I'm gonna get bashed for saying this but I think Arnold was overrated as a bodybuilder. The reason why everyone is on his nuts is because of what he did for bbing, movies, fame, and his personality.
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Bluto

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2005, 03:42:59 PM »
Thats cause "most people in the world" are a bunch of fucking idiots.

so unless you take the proportions of, say ronnie coleman, over arnold, or even brad pitt for that matter, you're an idiot?
Z

Borracho

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2005, 03:44:07 PM »
so unless you take the proportions of, say ronnie coleman, over arnold, or even brad pitt for that matter, you're an idiot?


Yes, thats exacty what I meant. 











::)
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GMCtrk

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2005, 03:45:26 PM »
so unless you take the proportions of, say ronnie coleman, over arnold, or even brad pitt for that matter, you're an idiot?


Brad Pitt???? :o

Bluto

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2005, 03:46:06 PM »

I'm gonna get bashed for saying this but I think Arnold was overrated as a bodybuilder. The reason why everyone is on his nuts is because of what he did for bbing, movies, fame, and his personality.

i think it's perfectly allright to criticize arnold, he could probably had added a little more mass to the legs, but the question is if having a upper body that overpowers the lower body from a aesthical viewpoint is a bad idea.
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Bluto

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2005, 03:47:09 PM »
Brad Pitt???? :o

well from a "normal" point of view a lot of people think he looked pretty good in troy, and it wasnt because of his legsize.
Z

Borracho

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2005, 03:52:36 PM »
i think it's perfectly allright to criticize arnold, he could probably had added a little more mass to the legs, but the question is if having a upper body that overpowers the lower body from a aesthical viewpoint is a bad idea.

Bluto,

We all have different goals. If what you're going for is a bar body then hey go for it but you'll look rediculous to people such as myself. Luckily for you "most people in the world" don't know jack shit.
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McFarland

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2005, 03:59:33 PM »
This is a good topic.  I think there's a quality of muscle that needs bigger legs to balance it out.  I was gonna site Levrone as an example, as his legs were awesome the first few years of his career, but near the end, he looked good then with smaller legs.  I don't know, but this is a good topic.  Sometimes huge legs make guys look like roid apes.  Branch Warren, Paul Demayo, Mike Morris, everyone with the craziest legs have had a sort of look that implied functional incompetence.  Levrone still didn't have that look, but you wouldn't have wanted to see Mike Francois with legs any less than what his were in his prime, either.  Porter Cottrel's weren't overpowering, but they weren't considered anything like Arnold or Zane's, either.  That guy that Arvilla posted the pictures of this morning had those sick, shredded meat-looking legs, too...probably not an asthetic ideal...the word "aesthetic" doesn't come to mind when looking at them, but guys with that mega-dosage look can be considered symmetrical.  Maybe it has something to do with muscle belly appearance in the upper body.  The longer bellies, like Arnold's biceps, and really low-inserting lats and drooping traps need longer-looking legs.  Vince Taylor had sick (good) quads...they didn't make him look non-functional, though. 

Shit, this is really hard to put your finger on.  Maybe the best look for someone is the one that reflects their current persona/soul/being/mindset/who they are, etc.   
   

GMCtrk

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2005, 04:04:16 PM »
well from a "normal" point of view a lot of people think he looked pretty good in troy, and it wasnt because of his legsize.


Yes and the "normal" person thinks bodybuilders look sickly. Brad pitt was tiny in troy. In fight club he was only about 155-160 at the most.

Borracho

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2005, 04:08:52 PM »

Shit, this is really hard to put your finger on.  Maybe the best look for someone is the one that reflects their current persona/soul/being/mindset/who they are, etc.   
   

^ WTF?

I think the most aesthetic physiques are those that are proportionate. No need to overanalize it.


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McFarland

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2005, 04:12:17 PM »
I'll be honest with you guys...I'm leaning more towards a "modified Pitt" than anything these days.  "Modified," because Pitt, in Fight Club, looked like he lacked the size for his physique to look mature enough...his physique looked like your high school's pretty boy star quarterback...Pitt but more size somehow seems like it would be ideal.  Glen Danzig had a meathead look, too, put into rock star context, and he wasn't even big really.  This is hard.  Speaking of maturity, I think that the typical pro physique these days looks like that of a scared child on the inside.  Not like Shawn Ray, whose physique was pretty awesome by most anyone's standards...I don't think anyone can look at that and not find beauty, but achieving that was as hardcore as anything...he had bad ass quads but still didn't look non-functional...maybe it's still the waist that has to remain small.

I don't know...you want something that looks like you don't care TOO much...but also one that looks like you haven't entirely given up on life... 

McFarland

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2005, 04:14:18 PM »
^ WTF?

I think the most aesthetic physiques are those that are proportionate. No need to overanalize it.




OK, well no use reading the rest of this developing thread.  LOL  Go watch TV or train I guess.  Or just tell me not to overanalyze.  No use to overanalyze my overanalyzation...yes, it's a mind fuck.  Don't tell me what not to do, goddamn it.   ;D 

Borracho

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2005, 04:16:37 PM »
Not like Shawn Ray, whose physique was pretty awesome by most anyone's standards...I don't think anyone can look at that and not find beauty, but achieving that was as hardcore as anything...he had bad ass quads but still didn't look non-functional...maybe it's still the waist that has to remain small.


LOL

Damn McFarland, I was gonna post a Shawn Ray pic in my previous post but I was too lazy to find one.  ;D
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McFarland

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2005, 04:17:30 PM »
I'll tell you what, Bluto.  Post your pic and we'll all immediately know if you need bigger legs or not.  I think that's all it comes down to. 

Borracho

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2005, 04:17:35 PM »
OK, well no use reading the rest of this developing thread.  LOL  Go watch TV or train I guess.  Or just tell me not to overanalyze.  No use to overanalyze my overanalyzation...yes, it's a mind f**k.  Don't tell me what not to do, goddamn it.   ;D 

What the hell did you smoke today?



















Can I have some  :-\
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McFarland

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2005, 04:22:46 PM »
What the hell did you smoke today?



















Can I have some  :-\

Ephedrine/caffeine, I swear.  The first day back on it's always a trip.  LOL   

DIVISION

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2005, 04:25:29 PM »
Glen Danzig had a meathead look, too, put into rock star context, and he wasn't even big really.

Glenn Danzig was pretty large for his height, and yes he was using AAS.

Watch the "Mother" video live and you'll see what I mean.




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McFarland

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2005, 04:44:05 PM »
Glenn Danzig was pretty large for his height, and yes he was using AAS.

Watch the "Mother" video live and you'll see what I mean.




DIV

Wasn't Danzig's neck too fucking thick?  That's something that instantly makes you a meathead.  Gary Strydom says neck training's an absolute "no-no," as that's one of the things that results in this, and I'd have to agree with him.  And I don't know if another view of his was adopted from his not being able to develop one anyway, or if his sub-par back, by conventional bodybuilding standards, was a result of this mindset...but he says that too-heavy back training's also unadvisable.  He says people like Ronnie, whose backs get so big that they have that "back hang" when relaxed, look "goonish."  I can see that.  Maybe it's just all about liking who you are.  Gary likes himself, that much is clear.  LOL  However, he still says Arnold still had the best physique of all time, even though Gary's exemplifies the late-80's ideal, as opposed to the 70's look referenced by Bluto at the start of this thread.  Gary's legs were massive, but still kinda held their aesthetism.  Personally, on a bodybuilding stage, I think Gary and Shawn Ray's are 2 of the best physiques of all time.  I liked Francis Benfatto's, too, but still wonder what he'd have looked like with better legs.  I think there also may be a skin quality and the number and course the veins take in a physique that defines their appeal.  Branch Warren looks like ground beef and his face never gets truly chiseled.  This is where the choice of drugs may come into play.  I just see him taking about 6 grams of strictly androgens a week, but I have no idea.  Primo/tren/anavar/win are responsible for making that pretty shit come in.  I bet Benfatto used very little test.  Anybody know his philosophy there?               

McFarland

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2005, 04:50:57 PM »
Richard Jones' legs weren't considered that weak when he turned pro...but now that his arms and delts grew, and he hasn't been as cut, you wanna see him really blow them out...then somehow return to the conditioning that made him pro.   

Bluto

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2005, 04:55:02 PM »
I'll tell you what, Bluto.  Post your pic and we'll all immediately know if you need bigger legs or not.  I think that's all it comes down to. 

I just thought it would be interesting to think about and discuss, it's got nothing to do with myself. I'm still a work in progress, but being tall I obviously need more legs, and especially calves, but if I somewhere down the road end up with a overpowering upper body, or at least somewhat, overpowering upperbody I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

And I do think it's interesting that people have such different standards, a guy is "supposed" to look a certain way, then there's talk about symmetry etc, but when it comes to the ideal of a girl, then the symmery issue is thrown outta the window. What if girls are the exact same way? What if they actually think an overpowering upperbody is more beautiful, sexier and wanted in a man?
Z

DIVISION

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Re: Upperbody ideal
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2005, 05:02:48 PM »
Wasn't Danzig's neck too fucking thick?  That's something that instantly makes you a meathead.  Gary Strydom says neck training's an absolute "no-no,".

Well Danzig wasn't a bodybuilder, he was a musician who lifted and used AAS.  The neck is something genetically predisposed.  I don't train neck specifically and yet I have a large neck as well.  I only notice it because my girlfriend mentioned it, so I suppose my neck is larger than average.  That said it's about what's important to you.  I don't train with the intentions of being a bodybuilder, strictly for strength, so my aesthetics aren't that important to me.  I always thought that was such a femmenine trait of bodybuilders......

Branch Warren looks like ground beef and his face never gets truly chiseled.  This is where the choice of drugs may come into play.  I just see him taking about 6 grams of strictly androgens a week, but I have no idea.  Primo/tren/anavar/win are responsible for making that pretty shit come in.

Tren is better for getting that lean, condensed look........much better than Anavar or Primo.  Plus it's more androgenic than either of those two, so it's got that added benefit. 

Tren is less androgenic than Halotestin, but three times as anabolic as Testosterone.

Good shit.




DIV
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