Author Topic: Greg Kovacs dies at 44  (Read 112464 times)

falco

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #200 on: November 28, 2013, 03:09:07 AM »
Why should they? The IFBB is about entertainment, for which they need a constant supply of new freaks. As long as there are enough new retards wanting to join that club, they will continue with their freaks shows.

Retards, because after all taxes and expenses very few earn any money, and many have to become male prostitutes in order to finance their absurd steroid/gh and recreational drug habits. Combine that with a seriously reduced life expectancy, and I think "retard" is the right word for such dudes.

They are just living the dream... ::)

Danny-Boy

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #201 on: November 28, 2013, 05:52:24 AM »
Danny whats your opinion on TRT, would you consider using it with your knowledge of the cardiovascular system, and what theory do you have with the low test marketing claim that low testosterone is also bad for the heart.

I'm not one to the devalue the merit of TRT therapy...but one has to also look into the individual's past and map out how he had come to such low test levels in the first place....  Yes, it will happen naturally ..but for many within this industry - most have miscalculated their dependence on these drugs n for how long they had shut down their own body's natural production.   After recognizing and acknowledging their past regimen, other factors should be monitored prior to treatment as opposed to an individual who has decreased test levels naturally.   For example,  how has the unnatural athlete's current body adapted to years of abuse? Blood work to check cholesterol?  These are important factors that come into question.  I believe TRT should be monitored by one's physician heavily.   Like any drug that works..there is such thing as "too much of a good thing"...  That's part of the addictive personality to which many of us lifters are victim to.  Regulated. #s  should be administered on an individual basis... In depth medical history should always be examined.

The Abdominal Snoman

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #202 on: November 28, 2013, 09:09:51 AM »
Same forearm as Cutler and Branch.


Skylge

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #203 on: November 28, 2013, 10:20:40 AM »
Same forearm as Cutler and Branch.



Both are 6 ft 5?

WannaBePro

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #204 on: November 28, 2013, 10:24:57 AM »
Both are 6 ft 5?
Greg looks about half an inch or an inch taller. I've seen Kip at my gym a couple of times, the guy is big as a house! Tall, wide and insane arms. The problem is when he's on stage, because he's so tall, he looks lanky, but up close he's anything but.

Skylge

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #205 on: November 28, 2013, 10:48:44 AM »
Greg looks about half an inch or an inch taller. I've seen Kip at my gym a couple of times, the guy is big as a house! Tall, wide and insane arms. The problem is when he's on stage, because he's so tall, he looks lanky, but up close he's anything but.

That's Greg's hair and he's wearing shoes. Kip might be barefoot, and he is billed as 6 ft 2. (The whole Kovacs is 6 ft 5 was marketing bs I think, Same as his weight)
"Kip" means chicken in Dutch btw    ;D

WannaBePro

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #206 on: November 28, 2013, 11:17:40 AM »
That's Greg's hair and he's wearing shoes. Kip might be barefoot, and he is billed as 6 ft 2. (The whole Kovacs is 6 ft 5 was marketing bs I think, Same as his weight)
"Kip" means chicken in Dutch btw    ;D

HAHA that's funny, my dad calls all bodybuilders "chickens" cause they're all round and dark like rotisserie chickens.

Fortress

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #207 on: November 28, 2013, 11:22:21 AM »
That's Greg's hair and he's wearing shoes. Kip might be barefoot, and he is billed as 6 ft 2. (The whole Kovacs is 6 ft 5 was marketing bs I think, Same as his weight)
"Kip" means chicken in Dutch btw    ;D

Greg was a bonafide 365ish when myself and Paul from MuslceTech saw his conditioning as he was prepping for, the Canadian Nationals, I think? And he was already considerably down in weight because of the pre-contest regime. But no, he was not much more than perhaps 6'2 in height.

OTHstrong

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #208 on: November 28, 2013, 11:26:32 AM »
Greg looks about half an inch or an inch taller. I've seen Kip at my gym a couple of times, the guy is big as a house! Tall, wide and insane arms. The problem is when he's on stage, because he's so tall, he looks lanky, but up close he's anything but.
Kovacks is 6 foot 2, the 6 foot 5 thing is bogus. Kip is a freak, he won the overalls at the Ontario's, the problems as you say is lanky but the upper body has filled out tremendously, his problem will be quad sweep. he will be like another joel stubbs

Archer77

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #209 on: November 28, 2013, 11:32:17 AM »
How does this happen? 

A

OTHstrong

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #210 on: November 28, 2013, 11:43:10 AM »
How does this happen? 


bone growth in the wrong places, organ growth, atrophied bodyparts, nerve damage in the limbs stunts growth, through time with the heavy use of gh and slin combined with heavy lifting and heavy eating.

Archer77

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #211 on: November 28, 2013, 11:45:48 AM »
bone growth in the wrong places, organ growth, atrophied bodyparts, nerve damage in the limbs stunts growth, through time with the heavy use of gh and slin combined with heavy lifting and heavy eating.

To bad, he looked good in his early career. 
A

OTHstrong

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #212 on: November 28, 2013, 11:47:26 AM »
To bad, he looked good in his early career. 
indeed, even had decent back.

Lord Chronos

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #213 on: November 28, 2013, 01:48:10 PM »
Obese people also have enlarged hearts. I'm not dismissing the drugs, I understand that all the orals, GH and vet drugs hinder health, but I believe staying huge past 40 is what does it in for these guys.
The smart thing for these retired pros to do is stay on trt, maybe even a bit more than trt (wouldn't hurt much anyway) and eat less, stay lean, stay healthy.

FACT = Steroids irreversibly alter the structure of the heart increasing the chances of a fatal cardiac event.

Why bodybuilders cant accept this, instead of looking for other answers. I guess they cant accept the fact that they have fucked themselves up....

Lord Chronos

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #214 on: November 28, 2013, 01:51:39 PM »
There are many reasons for heart failure. Although the use of steroids might have been detrimental, they might have not been directly correlated to his death.

Lets look at the obvious facts. The man was overweight and carrying a large amount of mass, which makes it difficult for the heart.

Due to his over-eating and excess weight, he could have had:

.....a history of hypertension (elevated blood pressure) that lead to the heart having to work much harder to pump blood from the left ventricle out into his systemic circulation. This is one of the major causes for left-ventricular hypertrophy, whereby the left ventricle becomes thickened due to the added exertion needed to pump blood our of the heart. Over time, this causes the left ventricle to become weak and/or stiff which can lead to heart failure.

.....a history of elevated cholesterol that lead to atherosclerosis (clogging and hardening by way of fatty deposits) of the coronary arteries. Over time, with enough fatty buildup, you can end up with plaque that lines the arteries of the heart. If pieces of plaque break off, they can travel in the form of small clots, which can then interrupt the blow flow through the coronary arteries leading to a heart attack (myocardial infarct). The combination of these two things (high cholesterol & a history of heart attacks) can lead to a decline of the ventricles (left and right, but mostly left) pumping capacity which can result in heart failure.

These major issues aside, the guy could have had calcification or even prolapse of his heart valves, which can also over time lead to heart failure.

Drug use (illicit drugs), not necessarily steroid use, could also lead to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. This is not to say that he was using any illicit drugs, but that is another potential.

Also, to corroborate what Royalty was saying, it is true (based on a limited amount of studies) that anabolic steroid use has been linked to weakened left ventricular function.

Studies to back this up, can be found here:

Serious cardiovascular side effects of large doses of anabolic steroids in weight lifters - http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/10/1576.abstract

Long-Term Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Use Is Associated With Left Ventricular Dysfunction - http://circheartfailure.ahajournals.org/content/3/4/472

Ultimately, what I think is important to realize is that no mere title, trophy, sponsorship, magazine cover or even various sets of spectating eyes are worth endangering your health in the long run. You only live once and what's important is to live life to your full potential.

May his family find peace in this time of turmoil..

"1"

Haha, classic denialist mentality stuff....

Steroids lead to permanent myocardial fibrosis and micro scarring leading to reduced efficiency, disturbed electrical conductivity and the leading cause of heart failure over any of the other issues that have have been highlighted above.

Lord Chronos

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #215 on: November 28, 2013, 01:55:09 PM »
Induced growth of cardiomyocyctes is irreversible my friend.....as seen in cases of hypertrophy, where the ventricle is forced to increase contractility in order to provide more oxygenated blood due to higher demand....    Follow physics...power = length x tension ...   Something is going to have to give ...it was just a matter of time.. The human body can only compensate to a certain futile degree.....  All the abusive factors contributed to his accelerated demise...  And yes..numerous past bodybuilders of the 70s did indeed undergo bypass surgery of some form- although not the hypertrophic acceleration seen in generation GH coupled w other anabolic enhancements... 


Christ!! Someone who knows what they are talking about at last!!

Lord Chronos

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #216 on: November 28, 2013, 01:59:04 PM »
On a case by case basis...  hypertrophy of the left ventricle is usually what is seen within these types of patients... where the left ventricle happens to be the corresponding chamber that is ejecting the body's overall systemic blood flow to all your tissues, muscles, organs, etc..... In order to overcome a higher pressure gradient now seen in the aorta...  this left ventricle has to find new avenues in order to compensate and re-establish a new set medium of adequate blood flow and stroke volume that will supply the rest of the body... Further, in order to provide more "force" aka "higher contractility" - more cardiomyocytes need to develop OR hypertrophy may also be seen . Here, the cardiac muscle eventually stiffens and loses its capability to contract adequately... BIGGER heart -> demands greater supply of 02 via the coronary arteries(which directly supply the heart)   quick cardiovascular 101 -> heart is made up of 4 chambers composed of 2 atriums and  2 ventricles..   it is possible for only one ventricle to hypertrophy... but this always leads to backed up problems of pressure... IE/  increased hydrostatic pressure backed into the lung's capillaries.... leading to pulmonary edema.. aka another quick way to die      so to answer your question... yes the all other chambers can be of normal size w/ the left ventricle exclusively increasing in muscularity/size =bad bad bad    

Also due to the compromised conductivity of cardiac tissue from steroid use, the chances of recovery of normal heartbeat during myocardial infarctions is reduced also.

Lord Chronos

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #217 on: November 28, 2013, 01:59:56 PM »
D-B, are you saying there's not free lunch in nature?

Correct

Lord Chronos

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #218 on: November 28, 2013, 02:02:29 PM »

I am sure the majority of these bodybuilders were given their fair share of warning signs by their own doctors..yet took that risk.... This lifestyle is an obsessive subculture, where many believe that they are the anomaly and won't succumb to human physiology...  The more realistic bodybuilders ended their careers when they were warned.... I do not doubt that is why you do not see a comeback a la Shawn ray..even though I know he still has the drive to win it all... But am damn sure he now has a precondition like many who were a part of his era..where continuing competitive bodybuilding will have to shorten his lifespan....  Acceptance is a tough pill to swallow....    Nature stopped giving free lunches as soon as they were told..enough is enough...


Agreed. Combination of superior natural genetics, better response to drugs, "moderate use" compared to other less gifted pros, and his success based on presenting an aesthetic physique vs being a mass monster, are for sure all factors why he will be around a lot longer than others.

galeniko

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #219 on: November 28, 2013, 04:47:26 PM »
On a case by case basis...  hypertrophy of the left ventricle is usually what is seen within these types of patients... where the left ventricle happens to be the corresponding chamber that is ejecting the body's overall systemic blood flow to all your tissues, muscles, organs, etc..... In order to overcome a higher pressure gradient now seen in the aorta...  this left ventricle has to find new avenues in order to compensate and re-establish a new set medium of adequate blood flow and stroke volume that will supply the rest of the body... Further, in order to provide more "force" aka "higher contractility" - more cardiomyocytes need to develop OR hypertrophy may also be seen . Here, the cardiac muscle eventually stiffens and loses its capability to contract adequately... BIGGER heart -> demands greater supply of 02 via the coronary arteries(which directly supply the heart)   quick cardiovascular 101 -> heart is made up of 4 chambers composed of 2 atriums and  2 ventricles..   it is possible for only one ventricle to hypertrophy... but this always leads to backed up problems of pressure... IE/  increased hydrostatic pressure backed into the lung's capillaries.... leading to pulmonary edema.. aka another quick way to die      so to answer your question... yes the all other chambers can be of normal size w/ the left ventricle exclusively increasing in muscularity/size =bad bad bad    
thnaks for this reply man.

another question, how can it be checked whether the ventricle has grown?will x ray be good enough?

if heart size is normal and bloodpressure too, will this mean everythings ok?
n

The True Adonis

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #220 on: November 28, 2013, 04:48:35 PM »
thnaks for this reply man.

another question, how can it be checked whether the ventricle has grown?will x ray be good enough?

if heart size is normal and bloodpressure too, will this mean everythings ok?
You better just stop while you can.  Don`t try every avenue to justify your usage. 

OneMoreRep

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #221 on: November 28, 2013, 06:03:21 PM »
Haha, classic denialist mentality stuff....

Steroids lead to permanent myocardial fibrosis and micro scarring leading to reduced efficiency, disturbed electrical conductivity and the leading cause of heart failure over any of the other issues that have have been highlighted above.

Once one of us performs his actual biopsy, that's when we will know how prominent the myocardial fibrosis was. Unfortunately, since none of us will get to see what his heart looks like, it's a mute point.

As for now, since no one on this forum will have access to his medical records, all we can do is speculate.

The easiest thing to do is to directly attribute and/or assume that his heart failure was caused due to his steroid use, but without his medical records, past blood work (to see whether he suffered from hyperlipidemia, hypertension, hypo/hyper-thyroidism, diabetes, kidney failure and to even possibly gauge what his BNP was), chest x-ray films, an echocardiogram, ekg, prior stress test results and even a prior CT or MRI scan of his heart, we only have speculation at best. If we had many of these elements, we can then get a better idea of what the full cardiac story was, but going only by pictures off the internet and rumors, we can't possibly assume anything.

To be clear, I'm not saying that steroids could have not played a role, but to directly attribute steroid use to his death is speculation at best.

Lets allow for the man to rest in peace.

"1"

galeniko

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #222 on: November 28, 2013, 07:04:44 PM »
How does this happen? 


its weird, the side abs bigger than the lats.

what organs are under the side abs?

is it even the rgans or are the side abs just too big?


as for trt, any doc will first say its no good.

but its the "safest" way to do some juice.

but even trt on just not good enough diet, well, you check bloodwork and see what sup.
n

honest

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #223 on: November 28, 2013, 07:14:07 PM »
I'm not one to the devalue the merit of TRT therapy...but one has to also look into the individual's past and map out how he had come to such low test levels in the first place....  Yes, it will happen naturally ..but for many within this industry - most have miscalculated their dependence on these drugs n for how long they had shut down their own body's natural production.   After recognizing and acknowledging their past regimen, other factors should be monitored prior to treatment as opposed to an individual who has decreased test levels naturally.   For example,  how has the unnatural athlete's current body adapted to years of abuse? Blood work to check cholesterol?  These are important factors that come into question.  I believe TRT should be monitored by one's physician heavily.   Like any drug that works..there is such thing as "too much of a good thing"...  That's part of the addictive personality to which many of us lifters are victim to.  Regulated. #s  should be administered on an individual basis... In depth medical history should always be examined.

Thanks Danny really appreciate the advice,

galeniko

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Re: Greg Kovacs dies at 44
« Reply #224 on: November 28, 2013, 07:44:08 PM »
danny, whats worse, long term moderate usage or short term abuse?

going tomorow to have stuff checked by doctor.

one more thing, from feeling pectoral angina till lights out, how much time is left?
n