Anybody else reconsidering their "supplement" protocols in light of the recent..

[ESFitness]

those numbers arent even bad, well, cept the resting rate, lol.

yeah creatinine, 120+ will be little bit high.good on you that the bun in ok.

btw i tested bp today after 3 days of non stop bad foods, and it was remarkably raised compared to 4 days ago.

and totaly agreed on the test levels, they wil l never ever come back to normal, they will soon come back to a low normal level and stay there until inevitable age induced decline.

somewhere at age 35 every male should ask themselves the question.hrt or give in.

well, running hundreds of mcgs of t3/day plus still doing injections put my CK levels in the 1400-2200 range. first test was 1400 or so, and the 2nd a couple days later was over 2100.

yes... thousands. lol.

any injection of anything will cause your CK to be very high the day after.. even one injection.. and I was probably doing 2-4 injections a few times a week, so that alone will put my CK levels wayyyy high, temporarily... but with the T3, my body was eating away at the muscle, hence the CK in the thousands.

[syntaxmachine]

At 56 running my 500wk Test/800wk EQ or primo with 4iu Seros keeps the muscles growing, the BF down and the over half a century penis working real nice. Elevated BP I am handling with Carditone. Other than that bloodwork is clean. Run adex at .5mg eod and that hasn't hurt the lipid profile. I figure I got 10 years before an old erect penis is just gross anyway. Going for the ride. Ken

Dying those gray pubes will significantly extend the non-grossness of said half-century old plus erect penis.

...No homo

[Dago_Joe]

At 56 running my 500wk Test/800wk EQ or primo with 4iu Seros keeps the muscles growing, the BF down and the over half a century penis working real nice. Elevated BP I am handling with Carditone. Other than that bloodwork is clean. Run adex at .5mg eod and that hasn't hurt the lipid profile. I figure I got 10 years before an old erect penis is just gross anyway. Going for the ride. Ken

This is more along the lines of a cycle i could see myself running long term.  I would just make it an even 500mg Test/ 500mg "whatever" and 4IU GH.  The whatever would probably be MAsteron bc i fucking love it, but i would also substitute in EQ.  Add 50mg Dianabol or 100mg Anadrol and that seems to be my sweet spot for cycles.  Tren is just not a drug my body can tolerate.  Used it a lot years ago and now that I'm older i just cannot tolerate the sides.  I also was using a lot of pain meds and benzos back in the day, so there is the reason i didnt notice the tren sides so much.  Now i am clean and tren is a bitch on my body, especially my psyche and sleep.  I don't really need antiE if i keep test below 1 gram. 
I don't know how ESF uses the amounts he does.  That is crazy!  I don't think i could ever reach that level.  Some people have a physiology that can tolerate it.  I do not. 

[Wez]

Dying those gray pubes will significantly extend the non-grossness of said half-century old plus erect penis.

...No homo

Agreed if I didn't clean up real nice down there Besides makes your dick look bigger.

[Wez]

This is more along the lines of a cycle i could see myself running long term.  I would just make it an even 500mg Test/ 500mg "whatever" and 4IU GH.  The whatever would probably be MAsteron bc i fucking love it, but i would also substitute in EQ.  Add 50mg Dianabol or 100mg Anadrol and that seems to be my sweet spot for cycles.  Tren is just not a drug my body can tolerate.  Used it a lot years ago and now that I'm older i just cannot tolerate the sides.  I also was using a lot of pain meds and benzos back in the day, so there is the reason i didnt notice the tren sides so much.  Now i am clean and tren is a bitch on my body, especially my psyche and sleep.  I don't really need antiE if i keep test below 1 gram. 
I don't know how ESF uses the amounts he does.  That is crazy!  I don't think i could ever reach that level.  Some people have a physiology that can tolerate it.  I do not. 

Perfect... I love Masteron too but after a while I get prostate problems. I throw Var in off an on myself. Tren is rough on me these days also but it just fucking works. I am going to try a low dose Tren Ace/Mast P/Test cycle soon and keep it short. Let's see what happens...Ken

[phreak]

I'd always considered going this route regardless of gear use. How's it working out for ya phreak?

Great. By which I mean: okay-ish. Sounds weird, but let me explain. My goal is feeling normal for my age. Not like superman (way too tempting for me), but slightly better than the normal, non-training 40-y.o. And having more energy than my wife (chronically ill) an my father (age 70). In that I have succeeded.

My goal at this time is not to become the next Mr. Olympia. Even though I have been wider than Heath since age 14. My goal is to be a very fit, reasonably strong 70-y.o. man in 2044. I want to have my father's energy (can't keep the old guy down) with a bit more strength and physical resilience.

Escalating the dosage is something I did consider last week even. But what would adding 200 mg/wk of tren do? Yes, I'd probably feel great and look better. But then what? Can't keep doing that and be healthy for the next 30 years. So I might as well not start.


But honestly, knowing what I know now? If I had started using test at 20, my lfe would have been very different. 'I could been a contenda', instead of a (close) runner up to known roid abusers. So honestly, I'm glad I didn't do it then. Because would I have options now, if I had? Or would I be someone needing (mentally at least) 2 g to cruise?

[galeniko]

well, running hundreds of mcgs of t3/day plus still doing injections put my CK levels in the 1400-2200 range. first test was 1400 or so, and the 2nd a couple days later was over 2100.

yes... thousands. lol.

any injection of anything will cause your CK to be very high the day after.. even one injection.. and I was probably doing 2-4 injections a few times a week, so that alone will put my CK levels wayyyy high, temporarily... but with the T3, my body was eating away at the muscle, hence the CK in the thousands.

whats ek? creatinine or bun?

didnt know that about the shots.

yeah one guy told me his alat liver value was in the 2 thousands at times.insanity.

very god point btw, if the body is on strict diet,or bit too strict and temporarily eating its own muscle, the kidney readings will be elevated,esp "bun"

[Dago_Joe]

Perfect... I love Masteron too but after a while I get prostate problems. I throw Var in off an on myself. Tren is rough on me these days also but it just fucking works. I am going to try a low dose Tren Ace/Mast P/Test cycle soon and keep it short. Let's see what happens...Ken

Thanks.  I have been doing the cycle style I wrote for a while now and it works great for me.  Good to see someone else who loves Masteron.  I think too many guys use it at way too low a dosage and write it off as ineffective.  Masteron is a fucking amazing drug.  PEriod. 
In my younger days, I ran the cycle you are proposing doing MANY times.  Tren Ace/Mast/Test Prop.  If you can tolerate the tren, it is probably the most effective stack you use.  Add an oral based on your goals at the time, ie. Abombs of Dianabol for mass - Var or Winny for cutting.  GH and anti E's and there you go.  I don't think you can get a more effective cycle.

[ESFitness]

whats ek? creatinine or bun?

didnt know that about the shots.

yeah one guy told me his alat liver value was in the 2 thousands at times.insanity.

very god point btw, if the body is on strict diet,or bit too strict and temporarily eating its own muscle, the kidney readings will be elevated,esp "bun"

CK is Creatine kinase ...

it's used as a marker of myocardial infarction (heart attack), rhabdomyolysis & muscular dystrophy..... and acute kidney failure. lol

[galeniko]

CK is Creatine kinase ...

it's used as a marker of myocardial infarction (heart attack), rhabdomyolysis & muscular dystrophy..... and acute kidney failure. lol

well, the acute failure is less bad than the chronic one imo

ill have to check that on my sheet

[ESFitness]

well, the acute failure is less bad than the chronic one imo

ill have to check that on my sheet

your CK will be elevated after a hard workout... legs, back, ect... or an extended workout in which you cause a lot of stress to the body (crossfit guys and wrestlers cutting weight will have high CK levels... and develop rabdo, and even "temporary" kidney failure)... it's basically a by-product of muscle breakdown/muscle injury.

doing an injection causes 'muscle injury' (dunno how else to describe it) and will raise CK levels for a day or so.

[Mad-scientist]

This is over all one of the most honest threads I have read. It is cool to see a lot of us coming to terms with the decisions we have made and looking at the big picture and honestly saying the dangers of steroid use. To many threads are just full of guy's glamorizing high dosages and never talking about the negative side effects they have in the long term. Honestly I know that it is a self defense mechanism we all kind of have as steroid users to play it off like nothing bad will ever happen health wise. So that we can sleep at night and are not paranoid. I do the same thing to try to feel better. But even some of the guys who glamorize high dosages in the past that have commented on this thread even said more of the reality about their situations. I honestly respect that a lot because it is not the popular thing to do on a steroid forum.

 I appreciate every one who commented and gave me advice about my testosterone levels. I know im going to end up on TRT honestly I just don't see a way around it. Thinking back on it I was off steroids for more like a year and ten months and my levels were at 413ng/dl. And after this last cycle that is about 5 months long I know I won't even recover back to 413ng/dl. And like galeniko mentioned my only real bet to recover would be with a doctors supervision. And than that would mean I would have to stop steroids for ever or it would be pointless. And my testosterone levels would still drop dramatically by the time I reached 28 to 30 probably.

[Borracho]

Great. By which I mean: okay-ish. Sounds weird, but let me explain. My goal is feeling normal for my age. Not like superman (way too tempting for me), but slightly better than the normal, non-training 40-y.o. And having more energy than my wife (chronically ill) an my father (age 70). In that I have succeeded.

My goal at this time is not to become the next Mr. Olympia. Even though I have been wider than Heath since age 14. My goal is to be a very fit, reasonably strong 70-y.o. man in 2044. I want to have my father's energy (can't keep the old guy down) with a bit more strength and physical resilience.

Escalating the dosage is something I did consider last week even. But what would adding 200 mg/wk of tren do? Yes, I'd probably feel great and look better. But then what? Can't keep doing that and be healthy for the next 30 years. So I might as well not start.


But honestly, knowing what I know now? If I had started using test at 20, my lfe would have been very different. 'I could been a contenda', instead of a (close) runner up to known roid abusers. So honestly, I'm glad I didn't do it then. Because would I have options now, if I had? Or would I be someone needing (mentally at least) 2 g to cruise?

It's completely normal to get greedy and want more 

Outside of the gym I've never felt any crazy boost in energy or libido btw. If I get off, I just feel tired all day and pinning again makes me feel "normal". So nothing out of the ordinary there...

well, the acute failure is less bad than the chronic one imo

ill have to check that on my sheet

lol...you're not coming off.

[anabolichalo]

how can galeniko have bad blood if he only uses 250mg of pharmaceutical grade test per week and eats like a model?

[Big Chiro Flex]

This is over all one of the most honest threads I have read. It is cool to see a lot of us coming to terms with the decisions we have made and looking at the big picture and honestly saying the dangers of steroid use. To many threads are just full of guy's glamorizing high dosages and never talking about the negative side effects they have in the long term. Honestly I know that it is a self defense mechanism we all kind of have as steroid users to play it off like nothing bad will ever happen health wise. So that we can sleep at night and are not paranoid. I do the same thing to try to feel better. But even some of the guys who glamorize high dosages in the past that have commented on this thread even said more of the reality about their situations. I honestly respect that a lot because it is not the popular thing to do on a steroid forum.

 I appreciate every one who commented and gave me advice about my testosterone levels. I know im going to end up on TRT honestly I just don't see a way around it. Thinking back on it I was off steroids for more like a year and ten months and my levels were at 413ng/dl. And after this last cycle that is about 5 months long I know I won't even recover back to 413ng/dl. And like galeniko mentioned my only real bet to recover would be with a doctors supervision. And than that would mean I would have to stop steroids for ever or it would be pointless. And my testosterone levels would still drop dramatically by the time I reached 28 to 30 probably.

Agreed, very honest thread indeed. I'm actually really surprised at a lot of the responses too.

[galeniko]

your CK will be elevated after a hard workout... legs, back, ect... or an extended workout in which you cause a lot of stress to the body (crossfit guys and wrestlers cutting weight will have high CK levels... and develop rabdo, and even "temporary" kidney failure)... it's basically a by-product of muscle breakdown/muscle injury.

doing an injection causes 'muscle injury' (dunno how else to describe it) and will raise CK levels for a day or so.

hm, this is very interesting.

so if one hits a nerve or damaged muscle tissue and that hurts for a week,then this will be elevated levels for a while too,right?

[ESFitness]

hm, this is very interesting.

so if one hits a nerve or damaged muscle tissue and that hurts for a week,then this will be elevated levels for a while too,right?

nerve? I doubt it would elevate CK... if tissue is sore/hurts for a week, then there's probably trauma and CK will probably be elevated.

[latiuss]

How is this a recent discovery? So everyones suddenly like omg 250mg eq im going to die so im lowering the dose guize oh noes guize bbers die coz of sterons and i take the sterons oh noes

[Big Chiro Flex]

How is this a recent discovery? So everyones suddenly like omg 250mg eq im going to die so im lowering the dose guize oh noes guize bbers die coz of sterons and i take the sterons oh noes

Maybe you should Reread the entire thread. This is a good discussion and there was  no retarded talk until you entered the convo, bro.

[_aj_]

Maybe you should Reread the entire thread. This is a good discussion and there was  no retarded talk until you entered the convo, bro.

LOL. The irony is that this board, notwithstanding recent personality clashes, is one of the most honest, information-filled board on a very touchy subject. Compare and contrast to the hilarious shit that goes on in G&O!

[Big Chiro Flex]

LOL. The irony is that this board, notwithstanding recent personality clashes, is one of the most honest, information-filled board on a very touchy subject. Compare and contrast to the hilarious shit that goes on in G&O!

Haha exactly

[Overload]

I've thought about this many times over the years, as my family doesn't have the best history for heart disease and cholestorol issues.  About 6 years ago i started using much lower dosages and i haven't had any "really" bad bloodwork.  Back when i was using grams of gear, i still got bloodwork done regularly because i learned from good people who always told me to get it checked no matter how you feel.  Even on larger doses my bloodwork wasn't too bad, but for a man in his 20's it wasn't good either.

Now that i'm in my mid 30's i honestly believe AAS can definately harm you if you use too much or for too long.  There is no mistake that any compound that raises your blood pressure, liver values and cholestorol is not going to benefit you.  However, i also believe that as long as you monitor your body correctly you can run moderate doses for many years with zero issues.  The only problem i'm ever had from AAS use is high blood pressure and slightly out of whack chol numbers.  I just recently started to develop gyno after over 12 years of AAS use.  

Bottom line is like anything in life, using AAS is a risk and if you are able to accept that risk then go for it.  I've never met anyone who died from using steroids, but i know a ton of people who have died from rec drugs, alcohol and just plain bad luck.  Live your life and enjoy it.

If i could start over i probably would never go over 1g of combined AAS and just blast/cruise for years on end while getting proper bloodwork done.  These days i never go over 1g and i'm pretty much the same size as i was years ago, but it took many years to build up to my level of muscularity.  In any event, it takes many years of lifting weights and using AAS to get into the 220's with single digit body fat.  Even when i was on some large doses it didn't seem to get me there at a great speed, but it sure did make me stronger than a gorilla.

This is a great thread, please continue to speak your mind.  I really enjoy reading the educated and informed peoples view on this subject.

[Wez]

I've thought about this many times over the years, as my family doesn't have the best history for heart disease and cholestorol issues.  About 6 years ago i started using much lower dosages and i haven't had any "really" bad bloodwork.  Back when i was using grams of gear, i still got bloodwork done regularly because i learned from good people who always told me to get it checked no matter how you feel.  Even on larger doses my bloodwork wasn't too bad, but for a man in his 20's it wasn't good either.

Now that i'm in my mid 30's i honestly believe AAS can definately harm you if you use too much or for too long.  There is no mistake that any compound that raises your blood pressure, liver values and cholestorol is not going to benefit you.  However, i also believe that as long as you monitor your body correctly you can run moderate doses for many years with zero issues.  The only problem i'm ever had from AAS use is high blood pressure and slightly out of whack chol numbers.  I just recently started to develop gyno after over 12 years of AAS use.  

Bottom line is like anything in life, using AAS is a risk and if you are able to accept that risk then go for it.  I've never met anyone who died from using steroids, but i know a ton of people who have died from rec drugs, alcohol and just plain bad luck.  Live your life and enjoy it.

If i could start over i probably would never go over 1g of combined AAS and just blast/cruise for years on end while getting proper bloodwork done.  These days i never go over 1g and i'm pretty much the same size as i was years ago, but it took many years to build up to my level of muscularity.  In any event, it takes many years of lifting weights and using AAS to get into the 220's with single digit body fat.  Even when i was on some large doses it didn't seem to get me there at a great speed, but it sure did make me stronger than a gorilla.

This is a great thread, please continue to speak your mind.  I really enjoy reading the educated and informed peoples view on this subject.

Excellent post.

[macos]

This is over all one of the most honest threads I have read. It is cool to see a lot of us coming to terms with the decisions we have made and looking at the big picture and honestly saying the dangers of steroid use. To many threads are just full of guy's glamorizing high dosages and never talking about the negative side effects they have in the long term. Honestly I know that it is a self defense mechanism we all kind of have as steroid users to play it off like nothing bad will ever happen health wise. So that we can sleep at night and are not paranoid. I do the same thing to try to feel better. But even some of the guys who glamorize high dosages in the past that have commented on this thread even said more of the reality about their situations. I honestly respect that a lot because it is not the popular thing to do on a steroid forum.

 I appreciate every one who commented and gave me advice about my testosterone levels. I know im going to end up on TRT honestly I just don't see a way around it. Thinking back on it I was off steroids for more like a year and ten months and my levels were at 413ng/dl. And after this last cycle that is about 5 months long I know I won't even recover back to 413ng/dl. And like galeniko mentioned my only real bet to recover would be with a doctors supervision. And than that would mean I would have to stop steroids for ever or it would be pointless. And my testosterone levels would still drop dramatically by the time I reached 28 to 30 probably.

A good endo would be helpful to get your HPTA back on track
 With a good diet, you can surely have test level more than the average joe.

[tstmaniac]

I've thought about this many times over the years, as my family doesn't have the best history for heart disease and cholestorol issues.  About 6 years ago i started using much lower dosages and i haven't had any "really" bad bloodwork.  Back when i was using grams of gear, i still got bloodwork done regularly because i learned from good people who always told me to get it checked no matter how you feel.  Even on larger doses my bloodwork wasn't too bad, but for a man in his 20's it wasn't good either.

Now that i'm in my mid 30's i honestly believe AAS can definately harm you if you use too much or for too long.  There is no mistake that any compound that raises your blood pressure, liver values and cholestorol is not going to benefit you.  However, i also believe that as long as you monitor your body correctly you can run moderate doses for many years with zero issues.  The only problem i'm ever had from AAS use is high blood pressure and slightly out of whack chol numbers.  I just recently started to develop gyno after over 12 years of AAS use.  

Bottom line is like anything in life, using AAS is a risk and if you are able to accept that risk then go for it.  I've never met anyone who died from using steroids, but i know a ton of people who have died from rec drugs, alcohol and just plain bad luck.  Live your life and enjoy it.

If i could start over i probably would never go over 1g of combined AAS and just blast/cruise for years on end while getting proper bloodwork done.  These days i never go over 1g and i'm pretty much the same size as i was years ago, but it took many years to build up to my level of muscularity.  In any event, it takes many years of lifting weights and using AAS to get into the 220's with single digit body fat.  Even when i was on some large doses it didn't seem to get me there at a great speed, but it sure did make me stronger than a gorilla.

This is a great thread, please continue to speak your mind.  I really enjoy reading the educated and informed peoples view on this subject.

How is your blood work now that your a little older using less gear compared to when you were younger using higher doses?, also how do you manage your blood pressure?