Anybody else reconsidering their "supplement" protocols in light of the recent..

[jon cole]

I HOPE this is true...but how can we know for sure?

Lee haney, zane, Paris, and ton's of pro from the 80/90's are still alive, even abuser of alcohol and rec drug like levrone or cormier.
guy who passed away like kovac, nasser are guy who don't know when to stop.
Boston loyd, Derreck anthony, rich piana and the new generation are doing everything wrong.

[Borracho]

I go back and forth.

something 'traumatic' will happen, like breaking up with a gf (one I'd care about.. not just one of the girls I fuck), and i'll say "fuck it.. i'm getting bigger and better than ever" and i'll hit kamikaze doses and bury myself in work and training. I think the estrogen and androgens really fuck with my head/emotions when it comes to relationships.... so that's what tends to drive me to use the crazy doses I do, never missing a shot, ect.... the relationship stuff gets me to a point where I don't really care about the consequences. I don't care about a heart attack. I don't care about high blood pressure. I don't care about liver values, so long as I don't lose my appetite. I don't care about kidneys. all I care about is getting bigger and freakier and standing out in Walmart or Albertsons.. or people staring at my shoulders at the mall when I wear a tank top.

did the same thing when I got cut from the baseball team in my junior year of high school. i'd already done 1 cycle.. found out I didn't get cut because of performance, I got cut because the coach thought I was using steroids (it'd been a joke that I was 'on steroids' since I was 15yrs old), and was afraid i'd get others to use as well. he was old school, purist bb coach. the pussy. remember walking back to my car thinking "fuck that motherfuc ker.... i'm gonna use 400mg per week PLUS dbol now... and show him what he's missing with i'm laying motherfuckers out on the football field"... and so I did. going through 3 bottles of Schien Test cyp and a bottle of reforvit-b. lol.

at least when I get the "fuck them... i'll show'em" attitude, I use steroids, and not pick up a bottle of booze or snort drugs or pop pills.

I seriously doubt i'll stop for another 8 years. after that, i'll run 4iu/day of gh and 250mg test per week... and probably 200mg deca per week.

I like this post!

But using gear as a coping mechanism has to be hard cause I've found this shit can intensify my emotions. At least with alcohol and the right drugs I would be numb enough to forget even where I lived. Not having drugs to fall back on and have gear "enhancing" my emotions was a trip...they say substance abusers have the emotional age of when we started to use so I was about 12 when I stopped, and you're probably like 135.

Regardless, I hope you can grow out of this pattern for the sake of your kids.

[macos]

...Trend of dying juicers?

Myself: not really, since I'm a low dose guy anyways. But I'm thinking about drawing the line in the sand come age 35 or something, will be TRT ONLY.

Lets keep in mind vic richards. He has gotten better with the years. There is no way he would have decreased the dosages all. Masters O, he showed up in good shape.

nah im coming off.

cold turekey

see how it looks in march for the summer shape and then decide

but maybe off for good and long.

I hope you go off for atleast 4-5months, gal. Keep us posted brother.

[macos]

The real question all of us here should be asking here is, " why do we do this?"
Dig deep down inside and come up with an honest answer.

I want to become the best bodybuilder in the world by winning the O. And for this, there is no way around the supplements.

Whats yours?

[local hero]

ive been struggling with the op's question for a while now.... ive been off for well over a year and have recently just started again

to answer the question above, the only reason all of us do this is to look good/big and all the other benefits that come with it, such as enjoying training 100% more with much less aches , positive attention, boosted ego/self esteem

the ' i only do this to compete' excuse was used for me for a few years, its total bullshit too... its exactly the same kind of lie id tell my self when i was 'bulking' and vastly over eating, instead of eating sensibly and staying 20lbs within  contest weight

[macos]

the ' i only do this to compete' excuse was used for me for a few years, its total bullshit too... its ey the same kind of lie id tell my self when i was 'bulking' and vastly over eating, instead of eating sensibly and staying 20lbs within  contest weight

I had made the same mistake. Concentrating on quality gains now.

[ESFitness]

I like this post!

But using gear as a coping mechanism has to be hard cause I've found this shit can intensify my emotions. At least with alcohol and the right drugs I would be numb enough to forget even where I lived. Not having drugs to fall back on and have gear "enhancing" my emotions was a trip...they say substance abusers have the emotional age of when we started to use so I was about 12 when I stopped, and you're probably like 135.

Regardless, I hope you can grow out of this pattern for the sake of your kids.

i'm human. I have flaws. 98% of the time I really don't give a fuck about the girls. I see them stare, I hear the comments.. like i'm a piece of meat. and I really don't care, it doesn't matter to me. doesn't make me feel "good" or anything, it's not why I'm a bodybuilder.

but when I find a girl who fits all the criteria I want, physically, and she's a 'good girl', who's never been a 'slut' or behaved like most the girls I 'date' (girls that just wanna fuck me because of how I look), and everything's going great... then all of a sudden the rug gets pulled out from under me..... it kinda fucks me up. emotionally. i'm not a robot u know. lol...

and the drugs play a big part i'm sure... when i'm in a relationship, and things all of a sudden fall apart, I'm distracted. I miss shots, my testosterone/androgens plummet, I miss taking orals. I miss taking anti-estrogens, ect, and my training is effected, I lose my appitite, I can't sleep... all that adds up and kinda snowballs.

then I think "fuck it", and try to talk myself out of it.. try to rationalize that back home (san diego), girls like her are a dime-a-dozen, and the only reason I was hung up on her or settled for her, is because girls like her are hard to find in this area (i'm still in CA, but a lot of rich white people and 'poor' mexicans)...

so I 'flip the switch' like a robot, and get refocused and go balls-out and try to put her out of my mind... and I bury myself in training (and work.. sortta the same) and I get 'in shape' (not like I was ever not in shape).... and I sleep with girls who look at me and say "wow, I hit the jackpot with you", in the back of my mind I know FULL WELL i'm gonna end up hurting their feelings. (funny how the shoe's on the other foot right now. lol... fucking karma I guess)..... because I think that's what's gonna make me feel better, because that's what all my friends would say I should do. "dude, if I looked like you, i'd be banging 4 girls a week... i'd have fucking aids!.. you're like an action figure"....

but in the end, it's all a bunch of bullshit. it all sucks. it's all lonely.

in all honesty, that's 95% of what's behind the doses I use. (and about 80% of why i'm in the business i'm in, if you know what I mean..... I think "i'm gonna make her jealous, i'm gonna make them envy me.. i'm gonna big big and freaky and make a TON of money", ect...

give me some stability in my life, and i'll be cool with running a gram of test and a little deca each week, and i'll be cool making $40k a year or something. but without that stability, I push the envelope.


/thread hijack.... I gotta shoot 2g of test, take 2.5mg adex, and a mg of prami now, before I forget. lol

[Big Chiro Flex]

i'm human. I have flaws. 98% of the time I really don't give a fuck about the girls. I see them stare, I hear the comments.. like i'm a piece of meat. and I really don't care, it doesn't matter to me. doesn't make me feel "good" or anything, it's not why I'm a bodybuilder.

but when I find a girl who fits all the criteria I want, physically, and she's a 'good girl', who's never been a 'slut' or behaved like most the girls I 'date' (girls that just wanna fuck me because of how I look), and everything's going great... then all of a sudden the rug gets pulled out from under me..... it kinda fucks me up. emotionally. i'm not a robot u know. lol...

and the drugs play a big part i'm sure... when i'm in a relationship, and things all of a sudden fall apart, I'm distracted. I miss shots, my testosterone/androgens plummet, I miss taking orals. I miss taking anti-estrogens, ect, and my training is effected, I lose my appitite, I can't sleep... all that adds up and kinda snowballs.

then I think "fuck it", and try to talk myself out of it.. try to rationalize that back home (san diego), girls like her are a dime-a-dozen, and the only reason I was hung up on her or settled for her, is because girls like her are hard to find in this area (i'm still in CA, but a lot of rich white people and 'poor' mexicans)...

so I 'flip the switch' like a robot, and get refocused and go balls-out and try to put her out of my mind... and I bury myself in training (and work.. sortta the same) and I get 'in shape' (not like I was ever not in shape).... and I sleep with girls who look at me and say "wow, I hit the jackpot with you", in the back of my mind I know FULL WELL i'm gonna end up hurting their feelings. (funny how the shoe's on the other foot right now. lol... fucking karma I guess)..... because I think that's what's gonna make me feel better, because that's what all my friends would say I should do. "dude, if I looked like you, i'd be banging 4 girls a week... i'd have fucking aids!.. you're like an action figure"....

but in the end, it's all a bunch of bullshit. it all sucks. it's all lonely.

in all honesty, that's 95% of what's behind the doses I use. (and about 80% of why i'm in the business i'm in, if you know what I mean..... I think "i'm gonna make her jealous, i'm gonna make them envy me.. i'm gonna big big and freaky and make a TON of money", ect...

give me some stability in my life, and i'll be cool with running a gram of test and a little deca each week, and i'll be cool making $40k a year or something. but without that stability, I push the envelope.


/thread hijack.... I gotta shoot 2g of test, take 2.5mg adex, and a mg of prami now, before I forget. lol

Very honest post here bro.

I'm honestly surprised at a lot of the replies, guys deciding to lower the doss because of newly gained perspectives. Pretty cool to see actually.

PS I start my new cycle tomorrow  Under a gram of course

[galeniko]

dont worry the test levels will come back within 2-3months.

thats not even the issue, can just pop a viagra gel and all is good.

the mental part and the training sucking is harder.

yah cople months it will be

[Borracho]

i'm human. I have flaws. 98% of the time I really don't give a fuck about the girls. I see them stare, I hear the comments.. like i'm a piece of meat. and I really don't care, it doesn't matter to me. doesn't make me feel "good" or anything, it's not why I'm a bodybuilder.

but when I find a girl who fits all the criteria I want, physically, and she's a 'good girl', who's never been a 'slut' or behaved like most the girls I 'date' (girls that just wanna fuck me because of how I look), and everything's going great... then all of a sudden the rug gets pulled out from under me..... it kinda fucks me up. emotionally. i'm not a robot u know. lol...

and the drugs play a big part i'm sure... when i'm in a relationship, and things all of a sudden fall apart, I'm distracted. I miss shots, my testosterone/androgens plummet, I miss taking orals. I miss taking anti-estrogens, ect, and my training is effected, I lose my appitite, I can't sleep... all that adds up and kinda snowballs.

then I think "fuck it", and try to talk myself out of it.. try to rationalize that back home (san diego), girls like her are a dime-a-dozen, and the only reason I was hung up on her or settled for her, is because girls like her are hard to find in this area (i'm still in CA, but a lot of rich white people and 'poor' mexicans)...

so I 'flip the switch' like a robot, and get refocused and go balls-out and try to put her out of my mind... and I bury myself in training (and work.. sortta the same) and I get 'in shape' (not like I was ever not in shape).... and I sleep with girls who look at me and say "wow, I hit the jackpot with you", in the back of my mind I know FULL WELL i'm gonna end up hurting their feelings. (funny how the shoe's on the other foot right now. lol... fucking karma I guess)..... because I think that's what's gonna make me feel better, because that's what all my friends would say I should do. "dude, if I looked like you, i'd be banging 4 girls a week... i'd have fucking aids!.. you're like an action figure"....

but in the end, it's all a bunch of bullshit. it all sucks. it's all lonely.

in all honesty, that's 95% of what's behind the doses I use. (and about 80% of why i'm in the business i'm in, if you know what I mean..... I think "i'm gonna make her jealous, i'm gonna make them envy me.. i'm gonna big big and freaky and make a TON of money", ect...

give me some stability in my life, and i'll be cool with running a gram of test and a little deca each week, and i'll be cool making $40k a year or something. but without that stability, I push the envelope.


/thread hijack.... I gotta shoot 2g of test, take 2.5mg adex, and a mg of prami now, before I forget. lol

So you ever get check ups?

Or do you just expect everything to be off the charts anyway and say fuck it?

[tstmaniac]

dont worry the test levels will come back within 2-3months.

thats not even the issue, can just pop a viagra gel and all is good.

the mental part and the training sucking is harder.

yah cople months it will be

The test levels will come back in 2 to 3 months but it will take much longer for natural test to be as high as it was before you took steroids if it ever goes back that high

[Mad-scientist]

Im planning on doing clomid at 100/100/50/50 than nolvadex for 40/40/25/25/25/25 and I have been running 500 iu's of hcg a week through out my cycle. Hope fully I can get my testosterone levels around like 500 I would be pretty happy with that. If they don't go above 400 within 6 months I might consider TRT. I just do not want to be 24 years old with low testosterone levels.

 Honestly I have had low testosterone levels before for a few months because I had no connections when I was 22 and got ripped off on my PCT so I had to fucking use triubulus and natural products. And it effected my job and my mental mind state way to much. It really holds a person back in life. I felt timid and not like myself. So if I have to go on TRT or deal with testosterone levels below 400ng/dl I would choose TRT. Life is to long to live it with low testosterone levels. I did it to myself I regret it but I accept it and always knew it was a consequence. Lol I might want to keep some Viagra or Cialis on hand though in case I meet a hot girl and have sub par testosterone levels that is a good point!

[ESFitness]

Very honest post here bro.

I'm honestly surprised at a lot of the replies, guys deciding to lower the doss because of newly gained perspectives. Pretty cool to see actually.

PS I start my new cycle tomorrow  Under a gram of course

going through some shit right now, obviously.

kinda a bitter pill to swallow. it's not the first time, but it is rare. at least it made me realize how much my ex loved me for many years, and I've started to 'mend' the relationship after 3 or 4 yrs. 13yrs ago today was the anniversary... kinda ironic.

soooo..... it's back to business for me I guess. i'll cruise on 2g test for a few weeks until hitting 4g test and 2g deca for a few months, with a couple hundred mgs dbol/day.. plus I found a whole bunch of igf1 in my fridge. lol... so i'll probably run 200mcg/day for a while.

at least my 'fuck it' attitude these days doesn't include drinking vodka like water or putting a syringe full of nubain in my arm.

[ESFitness]

So you ever get check ups?

Or do you just expect everything to be off the charts anyway and say fuck it?

sometimes.

my ast/alt is usually high... but nowhere near what it was when I was drinking (like 1/4 what it was when I was drinking).. and my bilirubin is sometimes high, even though I never have yellow skin/eyes or anything.

blood pressure is the upper end of normal without meds... when I was heavier/fatter and doing more powerlifting (and eating 3-4 jars of peanut butter per week and taking in 5k kcal/day) it was high, but went on captopril and then lisinopril and was normal.. now, no meds and it's ok.

kidney markers are ok usually.. unless I did an injection the day of or day before, then my ck levels are high (normal for anybody after an injection).

my rbc and hemo stuff is usually normal as well... no matter if I was on a couple hundred mg's or drol/day or using eq.

[galeniko]

The test levels will come back in 2 to 3 months but it will take much longer for natural test to be as high as it was before you took steroids if it ever goes back that high

ah, that.

i even believe the test levels never ever get back to where they been before, even after years.

mine have been the same after 2 months off and then 3-4years later of all no gear time, same results.that was btw coming off cold from abuse doses, not "use".i retrospect to thaat i can definitely say everything in the crash is much less pronounced if the doses werent so high,after coming off high doses,there were indeed some potence issues for a couple weeks.

yah, they never recover fully.

but imo, what counts,is how you feel, theres only very few days where i feel bad in first 2 months off, and very rare that impotence problems occur(again this isnt even an issue in the days of viagra).

mad scientist, dont worry,lol, if all esle fails, one can always do self hrt, but stick to honest hrt doses,100mg weekly, thatll do and it doesnt get any safer.

the pct is kinda doomed to fail without permanent doctor supervision.

yo,esf, what are your parameters for creatinine and BUN?

haha, love your honesty."BP on upper end wo meds"

[ESFitness]

ah, that.

i even believe the test levels never ever get back to where they been before, even after years.

mine have been the same after 2 months off and then 3-4years later of all no gear time, same results.that was btw coming off cold from abuse doses, not "use".i retrospect to thaat i can definitely say everything in the crash is much less pronounced if the doses werent so high,after coming off high doses,there were indeed some potence issues for a couple weeks.

yah, they never recover fully.

but imo, what counts,is how you feel, theres only very few days where i feel bad in first 2 months off, and very rare that impotence problems occur(again this isnt even an issue in the days of viagra).

mad scientist, dont worry,lol, if all esle fails, one can always do self hrt, but stick to honest hrt doses,100mg weekly, thatll do and it doesnt get any safer.

the pct is kinda doomed to fail without permanent doctor supervision.

yo,esf, what are your parameters for creatinine and BUN?

haha, love your honesty."BP on upper end wo meds"

I believe my creatinine has only been close to 'high' once, and that was during the time I was inadvertently running hundreds of mcg's of t3 for months (my ck levels were in the thousands as well.. if I recall '120' was considered high), but my BUN has never been high.

as long as my diastolic (bottom number) is below 89, preferably 81/83 i'm happy.. the upper number is about 130/128... and my resting heartrate is in the mid-80's usually... unless I'd had pre-workout that day, then it'll be 95-102 or so all day long.

[ESFitness]

and I don't believe your testosterone levels will EVER go back to 'normal', much less 'high-normal' after using steroids.

shit... well over a year of being 'off' everything except the androderm patch, my test levels were still below 120. that was many years ago... then went to cyp injection hrt at 200mg every 2 weeks and my levels were 1400 2 days after the shot, down to 750/800ish 13-14 days post injection (day or or day before my next shot).

at the very, very least, I think any man who decided he wants to use steroids, needs to realize that he'll be using testosterone for the rest of his life... and he'll NEED it SOONER than normal.

normal man, no steroid use ever may 'need' hrt at 33yrs old, maybe 35.

steroid using man may 'need' hrt at 27 or 29.

it's my believe that all men should begin hrt at 100mg/wk at age 30, whether they were steroid users or not. those are the beginning of the prime-time for earning income, higher testosterone = higher income. 

[phreak]

The real question all of us here should be asking here is, " why do we do this?"
Dig deep down inside and come up with an honest answer.

I want to become the best bodybuilder in the world by winning the O. And for this, there is no way around the supplements.

Whats yours?

Anyone's time on this planet is limited. I did not want to waste my time feeling like shit because of low testosterone. My wife, who has a chronic illness, was more active and had a higher libido than me. So even though my bloodwork looked great (apart of course from borderline low test) I would not have described myself as healthy. So I'm on self-prescribed HRT now (250 mg/wk), and will keep doing that until something forces me to stop.

Then again, I was considering adding a bit of tren. Recent deaths have made me reconsider this.

[The Wizard of Truth]

I got scared all the guys were dying so got my bloods done last week, results were great so im gonna take more gear than ever next cycle hahahahahahahahhahahahah ahahahaha yes

[phil mcgroin]

i'm actually upping the dose considerably

just the kind of a reckless mother fucker i am, life sucks anyway  

^^^ this

[Borracho]

Anyone's time on this planet is limited. I did not want to waste my time feeling like shit because of low testosterone. My wife, who has a chronic illness, was more active and had a higher libido than me. So even though my bloodwork looked great (apart of course from borderline low test) I would not have described myself as healthy. So I'm on self-prescribed HRT now (250 mg/wk), and will keep doing that until something forces me to stop.

Then again, I was considering adding a bit of tren. Recent deaths have made me reconsider this.

I'd always considered going this route regardless of gear use. How's it working out for ya phreak?

btw esfitness get your girl back and stay healthy. lol at cruising on 2g but much worse things we could be doing that's for sure.

[galeniko]

I believe my creatinine has only been close to 'high' once, and that was during the time I was inadvertently running hundreds of mcg's of t3 for months (my ck levels were in the thousands as well.. if I recall '120' was considered high), but my BUN has never been high.

as long as my diastolic (bottom number) is below 89, preferably 81/83 i'm happy.. the upper number is about 130/128... and my resting heartrate is in the mid-80's usually... unless I'd had pre-workout that day, then it'll be 95-102 or so all day long.

those numbers arent even bad, well, cept the resting rate, lol.

yeah creatinine, 120+ will be little bit high.good on you that the bun in ok.

btw i tested bp today after 3 days of non stop bad foods, and it was remarkably raised compared to 4 days ago.

and totaly agreed on the test levels, they wil l never ever come back to normal, they will soon come back to a low normal level and stay there until inevitable age induced decline.

somewhere at age 35 every male should ask themselves the question.hrt or give in.

[dustin]

I never go above a gram (I don't like pinning lots of oils) and I don't run orals for too long so it doesn't concern me. I've had lots of blood work, I've learned from my fuck ups and I don't believe I'm placing myself in harm's way. There are a lot more dangerous things I could be doing than injecting a couple mls of steroids two or three times a week.

[Big Chiro Flex]

I never go above a gram (I don't like pinning lots of oils) and I don't run orals for too long so it doesn't concern me. I've had lots of blood work, I've learned from my fuck ups and I don't believe I'm placing myself in harm's way. There are a lot more dangerous things I could be doing than injecting a couple mls of steroids two or three times a week.

This is my thinking as well hombre.

[Wez]

At 56 running my 500wk Test/800wk EQ or primo with 4iu Seros keeps the muscles growing, the BF down and the over half a century penis working real nice. Elevated BP I am handling with Carditone. Other than that bloodwork is clean. Run adex at .5mg eod and that hasn't hurt the lipid profile. I figure I got 10 years before an old erect penis is just gross anyway. Going for the ride. Ken