Serious question for those who juice: At what point did.....

[420 Diesel]

SOUNDS GOOD, I WAS 220 AT YOURE AGE, 235 BY 20, 242 BY 21 THEN I STARTED PINNING, YOU'RE 18 YOU SHOULD STAY NATURAL FOR NOW.

if you had my genetics, or my mind, you'd never even contemplate steroid use.  Say what you will, but steroids are the easy way out.  The actions of this generation's up and coming bodybuilders will determine the future of the generation to follow.  Everyone, keep that in mind the next time you feel the call of the needle.

[Double XL]

if you had my genetics, or my mind, you'd never even contemplate steroid use. 

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, I HAVE VERY GOOD GENETICS, I GAINED 75LBS OF MUSCLE IN MY FIRST YEAR OF TRAINING NATURALLY, SO DONT FLATTER YOURSELF KID.   THERES NO WAY YOU COULD GET AS BIG AS ME NATURALLY.

[tom joad]

if you had my genetics, or my mind, you'd never even contemplate steroid use.  Say what you will, but steroids are the easy way out.  The actions of this generation's up and coming bodybuilders will determine the future of the generation to follow.  Everyone, keep that in mind the next time you feel the call of the needle.

JFK couldn't have said it any better.

[420 Diesel]

It's the easy way out if the only reason your big is because of steroids.

If you were big before ever touching, there should be no hate.

I don't hate steroid users.  I understand the need for such unnatural supplementation.  It's unfair that someone could have all the heart and desire in the world, but not the genetics to match.  my problem, however, is that, because of this very situation, achieving the level of a competitive bodybuilder is damn near impossible without steroids.

[420 Diesel]

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, I HAVE VERY GOOD GENETICS, I GAINED 75LBS OF MUSCLE IN MY FIRST YEAR OF TRAINING NATURALLY, SO DONT FLATTER YOURSELF KID.   THERES NO WAY YOU COULD GET AS BIG AS ME NATURALLY.

Okay mr.muscle, when will you be competing in the olympia?

[king]

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, I HAVE VERY GOOD GENETICS, I GAINED 75LBS OF MUSCLE IN MY FIRST YEAR OF TRAINING NATURALLY, SO DONT FLATTER YOURSELF KID. THERES NO WAY YOU COULD GET AS BIG AS ME NATURALLY.

...bullshit

[GMCtrk]

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, I HAVE VERY GOOD GENETICS, I GAINED 75LBS OF MUSCLE IN MY FIRST YEAR OF TRAINING NATURALLY, SO DONT FLATTER YOURSELF KID.   THERES NO WAY YOU COULD GET AS BIG AS ME NATURALLY.

 

[420 Diesel]

anyways, my conflict with you has caused a major deviation from the point.  If steroid use decreases now, the next generation can reap the benefits of a more level playing field.  We each make the decision to further the gap between the naturally attainable and the current standard of bodybuilding.  Put the needle down, don't take the easy way out.  If no one is willing to step up and end this vicious cycle, bodybuilding will be ruined.

[Double XL]

Okay mr.muscle, when will you be competing in the olympia?

NOT ANYTIME SOON BRUTHA.

[420 Diesel]

NOT ANYTIME SOON BRUTHA.

sounds like those roids are working well for you.

[Double XL]

...bullshit

NO BULLSHIT HERE BRUTHA.

[Blake]

you know, maybe if you people could make the decision to take the hard road - the non-steroid path - despite genetic shortcomings, it wouldn't be so impossible to reach the next level.  If everyone made the decision to go it without steroids, it would add some momentum to bodybuilding's stagnant progress.

 

How would that add momentum, specifically?  I fail to see how NOT taking steroids will make it more possible to "reach the next level".

My issue with them is that it creates an uneven playing field.  Some are more genetically gifted than others.  That is the way it is meant to be.  The notion that plateus can't be overocme without steroidal aid is ridiculous to me.  Maybe we'd have made greater advances in the science of training had steroids never come to prominence.

And what "playing field" are you speaking of?  As I've mentioned before, when I go to the gym, I don't think of it as a competition between myself and other recreational lifters.

As can be said of performance enhancing drugs in other sports (take cycling for example, a very heavily drugged sport)-- take away the drugs and the same people who are at the top would still be there.  Just possibly that overall times, etc. would be somewhat higher (again using the cycling example).

Who ever said that plateaus cannot be overcome without steroids?  I honestly don't know of anyone who thinks that way.

About advances in training-- well, for one thing it's not like there's been any shortage of theories developed over the past 50 years saying shit to the effect of "this new fabulous 'x' training system produces 280% better muscle gains than training system 'y' ".   And personally I don't think building muscle and/or losing fat is rocket surgery.  As has been stated by Lyle McDonald- "Ass busting work + consistency + time = results."
 

Don't take steroids.  No matter how you look at it, it's a shortcut.

And what is wrong with taking a shortcut?  What is so terribly wrong about wanting to achieve your bodybuilding/weightlifting goals sooner rather than later?  When you sit down and think about it..... who gives a flying f**k??  I just simply cannot understand the thought process behind some natural trainees who will look at a steroid using lifter and think "man, that guy's nothing but a cheater", "he just couldn't build any muscle without steroids", blah blah blah.  On the contrary, why is it that you rarely (if ever) see steroid using lifters on message boards or elsewhere bitching about how "weak and pansy natural trainers are"?  And it's the steroid users who are supposed to have all the rage?  Please...      

Hell, you'll live longer

Could you please point me to some cases of people dying in which anabolic steroids are the specific culprit?  I would also like to know precisely why I will not live as long as I would if I didn't ever take steroids.  *This may also be a good point to note that not everyone who uses steroids abuses them.

[Double XL]

sounds like those roids are working well for you.

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?

[420 Diesel]

 

How would that add momentum, specifically?  I fail to see how NOT taking steroids will make it more possible to "reach the next level".

And what "playing field" are you speaking of?  As I've mentioned before, when I go to the gym, I don't think of it as a competition between myself and other recreational lifters.

As can be said of performance enhancing drugs in other sports (take cycling for example, a very heavily drugged sport)-- take away the drugs and the same people who are at the top would still be there.  Just possibly that overall times, etc. would be somewhat higher (again using the cycling example).

Who ever said that plateaus cannot be overcome without steroids?  I honestly don't know of anyone who thinks that way.

About advances in training-- well, for one thing it's not like there's been any shortage of theories developed over the past 50 years saying shit to the effect of "this new fabulous 'x' training system produces 280% better muscle gains than training system 'y' ".   And personally I don't think building muscle and/or losing fat is rocket surgery.  As has been stated by Lyle McDonald- "Ass busting work + consistency + time = results."
   Hell, you'll live longer and be richer for it.
Could you please point me to some cases of people dying in which anabolic steroids are the specific culprit?  I would also like to know precisely why I will not live as long as I would if I didn't ever take steroids.  *This may also be a good point to note that not everyone who uses steroids abuses them.

my problem is not with steroids as a substance.  my issue lies with its effect on the sport of bodybuilding.  with all the top competitors using such copious ammounts of performance enhacing drugs, how are the young up and comers going to be left with any choice other than to juice?  Personally, I love bodybuilding.  I love almost every aspect of it.  Unfortunately, the only thing keeping me from making a real commitment to is the fact that I will have no future in it without steroids.

[G o a t b o y]

Um, so, which members were you bent on murdering?

Let's put it this way....   he's already asked me for the screenshot of MattT's infamous post detailing your info. 

[420 Diesel]

and when i attack doublexl for his personal use, i'm merely trying to show that each person's individual decision to juice just makes it harder for people trying to do it the natural way.

[Blake]

my problem is not with steroids as a substance.  my issue lies with its effect on the sport of bodybuilding.  with all the top competitors using such copious ammounts of performance enhacing drugs, how are the young up and comers going to be left with any choice other than to juice?  Personally, I love bodybuilding.  I love almost every aspect of it.  Unfortunately, the only thing keeping me from making a real commitment to is the fact that I will have no future in it without steroids.

Gotcha'.   

[420 Diesel]

I understand that steroids are the great equalizer, but for every personal gain a bodybuilder makes with steroids, he takes a little away from the sport as a whole.

[G o a t b o y]

I understand that steroids are the great equalizer, but for every personal gain a bodybuilder makes with steroids, he takes a little away from the sport as a whole.

Without steroids, there IS no "sport".

You can get BIG without steroids or you can get RIPPED without steroids, but you really can't do BOTH at the same time.  Ever seen a true natural show? What a joke...most of the competitors look like they don't even work out because of all the muscle they lost in order to get their fat down. Hell... some of them even have that "skinny-fat" look.   

[Double XL]

Without steroids, there IS no "sport".

IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

[tom joad]

my problem is not with steroids as a substance.  my issue lies with its effect on the sport of bodybuilding.  with all the top competitors using such copious ammounts of performance enhacing drugs, how are the young up and comers going to be left with any choice other than to juice?  Personally, I love bodybuilding.  I love almost every aspect of it.  Unfortunately, the only thing keeping me from making a real commitment to is the fact that I will have no future in it without steroids.

I understand that steroids are the great equalizer, but for every personal gain a bodybuilder makes with steroids, he takes a little away from the sport as a whole.

You should send your well articulated thoughts to Mr. Joe Weider.  It's not too late for him to change his legacy in bodybuilding.  Wait . . . on second thought . . . you better not write Joe because he'll probably try to sell you some Mega Mass 4000 and convince you that you can make the pros that way.

[Dan-O]

Without steroids, there IS no "sport".

You can get BIG without steroids or you can get RIPPED without steroids, but you really can't do BOTH at the same time.  Ever seen a true natural show? What a joke...most of the competitors look like they don't even work out because of all the muscle they lost in order to get their fat down. Hell... some of them even have that "skinny-fat" look.   

"skinny-fat" look, wtf do you mean?


Oh...  never mind, I'm getting a visual now...

[Mars]

Some are talking about achieving their bodybuilding goals sooner rather than later but the point is that you never will archieve a "juiced" physique later and that's a big reason people do juice.
I can't see it as a shortcut but as a way to get on another level.

[Double XL]

Some are talking about achieving their bodybuilding goals sooner rather than later but the point is that you never will archieve a "juiced" physique later and that's a big reason people do juice.
I can't see it as a shortcut but as a way to get on another level.

WELL SAID, AS ALWAYS, MARS.

[suckmymuscle]

Without steroids, there IS no "sport".

You can get BIG without steroids or you can get RIPPED without steroids, but you really can't do BOTH at the same time.  Ever seen a true natural show? What a joke...most of the competitors look like they don't even work out because of all the muscle they lost in order to get their fat down. Hell... some of them even have that "skinny-fat" look. 

  This is exactly what I said on another post, Goatboy. Big muscles covered with lard? Possible. Ripped abs with puny muscles? Possible. HUGE muscles with ripped abs? Nope. Why? Because the human body was not made to carry hundreds of pounds of muscles, with concentration-camp levels of bodyfat. There was never an evolutionary reason for someone to be like that, so genes that would enable you to be like that "naturally" were never selected for. To have such a body, you need to change your body's biochemistry to a considerable degree, through an increase in muscle protein synthesis, by commanding your DNA to create more RNA-transcryptase. There is no other way.

SUCKMYMUSCLE