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Author Topic: Training legs when I'm always doing cardio via treadmill  (Read 1068 times)
spidey007
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« on: December 16, 2013, 12:43:09 PM »

Question for you guys:

For years I did my leg training.  Squats, presses, SLDLs, etc. 

Now i'm a bit older and have been doing much more cardio on the treadmill.  Usually about a 30-40 min run 3-5 times a week.  I haven't done legs since all this cardio. 

Since I'm running so much and plan on keeping it up, are legs really necessary anymore?  I'm not trying to become some huge BB by any means.  I've lost about 40 pounds running and love the cuts. 

Thoughts?
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Donny
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 02:52:29 PM »

Just do leg press and maybe leg curls....or just leg press using  different foot positions.
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2013, 03:19:14 PM »

working your legs burns more calories than any other anaerobic excerise group, and continues to burn calories for several days afterwards rebuilding the torn up muscle tissue
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2013, 06:13:58 PM »

Might suggest squats to at least keep  muscle mass and  a higher level of strength. Strong legs are still important as we all get older. Doesn't have to be a lot of extra work for the legs, 3 X 5-7 reps, a couple times a week should do it. Really don't need higher reps if your doing the treadmill thing that many times a week. Squats also tend to improve the balance, rather than doing a leg exercise sitting or lying.

Can replace squats with step-ups, holding a DB in hand or a BB across the shoulders. Suggest also an exercise like GoodMornings, extensions, Romanian DL for the important lower back & ham string muscles. Might find the stretch also may improve the running abilities. Keeping them healthy in the process.

With running (treadmill or track), as excellent as it is, the leg muscles are only getting a very, very short ROM. Unless you switch to cross country/trail/hill running, etc. If you don't want to include any direct ROM movements for the legs (squats, leg presses, etc) than might throw in some sprints, like 40 yards or longer.

Some of the better calves are on runners (men & women) who run hills and mountain trails. I ran mountain fire trails when getting in football shape off season....great for stamina (endurance plus strength).  

Just a personal view; always preferred running out doors than on a inside track or on a treadmill.   Good Luck.
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 06:50:04 PM »

Just a personal view; always preferred running out doors than on a inside track or on a treadmill.   Good Luck.


You ever try running or sprinting with a parachute for added resistance?
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 07:59:08 PM »

If you are not training to pose on a stage or something sport specific there is nothing wrong with just doing sprints and distance for legs. Way before Arnold and Sly were action figures back in the day it was Brad Harris. This American mainly did movies in Europe during the 60's . He was a training animal. He was well known by all the major bodybuilders of the day. Arnold wanted him to compete but he didn't have the interest. He was always training along side the major stars in the 60's. He only lifted for the upper body. He felt all the running he did was enough for his legs. He was fast in both distance and sprints. According to an interview I read, he said he used through the years many different methods of lifting. He mainly settled on using three exercises per body part and three sets of 12 reps. The picture below is during his later years. I bet he was in his late 50's when it was taken.

I just read how he trains at 75 is different but he still only uses running up stairs and sprints on a bike for legs.



* brad harris @78 yearsbold.jpg (54.12 KB, 630x800 - viewed 271 times.)
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 10:28:04 PM »

Montague

No parachute, that's mostly for running back/receiver types (and selective track athletes). Used for rehab in some places. Us defensive linemen got together off season (unofficial of course) and used truck tires, some packed with cement, and ran 5-10 yard semi sprints...actually more like a fast walk. Also pull the tires that same distance backwards. Pulling calls on a whole new set of lat/back/hip/leg/calf recruitment. Linemen only cover short distances in a game. Seen quite a few guys increase their calf size almost over night with the tire thing, either forward or backward.

Not running, but for developing stamina, we had a smaller old broken down refrigerator which we would bear hug and pick  up. Than walked around with it, that way, for maybe 20 feet or so (until we touched the fence actually) and walked back again to the original starting spot. Nothing ever quite caused the soreness to my chest, and back, as doing that refrigerator walk. The tension was non stop for the whole distance of the walk. Did this kind of stuff in high school and college.    Good Luck.
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2013, 11:36:52 PM »

I used to do legs(squats,presses etc)a lot and it really get me to lose bodyfat and get lean fast,and my legs stay in decent shape even after i rarely do them now but i noticed i won't get cut as fast as when i did legs a lot back then
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2013, 12:14:25 AM »

If you are not training to pose on a stage or something sport specific there is nothing wrong with just doing sprints and distance for legs. Way before Arnold and Sly were action figures back in the day it was Brad Harris. This American mainly did movies in Europe during the 60's . He was a training animal. He was well known by all the major bodybuilders of the day. Arnold wanted him to compete but he didn't have the interest. He was always training along side the major stars in the 60's. He only lifted for the upper body. He felt all the running he did was enough for his legs. He was fast in both distance and sprints. According to an interview I read, he said he used through the years many different methods of lifting. He mainly settled on using three exercises per body part and three sets of 12 reps. The picture below is during his later years. I bet he was in his late 50's when it was taken.

I just read how he trains at 75 is different but he still only uses running up stairs and sprints on a bike for legs.


yes Brad Harris.. outstanding  Smiley
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spidey007
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2013, 08:45:48 AM »

Thanks guys.  Always excellent advice on this board.

I'm just not too concerned with leg size anymore getting to be 35 years old.  I'm more into looking the part and being in shape as opposed to a permabulker/strength guy.

I am going to take JPM's suggestions and just do some simple squats.  Maybe some Stiff legs too. 

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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 06:14:03 PM »

Montague

No parachute, that's mostly for running back/receiver types (and selective track athletes). Used for rehab in some places. Us defensive linemen got together off season (unofficial of course) and used truck tires, some packed with cement, and ran 5-10 yard semi sprints...actually more like a fast walk. Also pull the tires that same distance backwards. Pulling calls on a whole new set of lat/back/hip/leg/calf recruitment. Linemen only cover short distances in a game. Seen quite a few guys increase their calf size almost over night with the tire thing, either forward or backward.

Not running, but for developing stamina, we had a smaller old broken down refrigerator which we would bear hug and pick  up. Than walked around with it, that way, for maybe 20 feet or so (until we touched the fence actually) and walked back again to the original starting spot. Nothing ever quite caused the soreness to my chest, and back, as doing that refrigerator walk. The tension was non stop for the whole distance of the walk. Did this kind of stuff in high school and college.    Good Luck.


Interesting.
Thanks, buddy!
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 09:06:29 AM »

 I always make a mess of things when I do leg weight training and running. I try to stick to just the trail running and throw in some wind sprints or run suicides to get the job done.
 When I try to work in leg presses my legs get very solid, swell and lose the flexibility I need to run even small distances.

 I also use a mountain bike, it seems to work the legs hard enough with making them too dense for running.
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« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 04:38:40 PM »

Thanks guys.  Always excellent advice on this board.

I'm just not too concerned with leg size anymore getting to be 35 years old.  I'm more into looking the part and being in shape as opposed to a permabulker/strength guy.

I am going to take JPM's suggestions and just do some simple squats.  Maybe some Stiff legs too.  



Watch stiff legged deads. I have done them in the past, but my doctor and chiro have warned me they are not good for the spine. I replaced them with roman chair hyper extensions.

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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 04:40:05 PM »

In my opinion your leg workouts shouldn't change....unless you are becoming more prone to injury with the extra treadmill workouts.

Keep doing the same and if you see too much of an unwanted increase in size, cut back on the leg workouts.
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« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 09:39:58 AM »

SLDL's are one of the exercises that are abused by most BB'ers. Too much rounding of the back and trying to go lower than really needed.And with less focus on the ham's themselves.  Most regular DL's seem to turn into a SLDL's, with the strain on the lower back and rounded shoulders.  With SLDL's and regular DL's, the idea is to keep the spine area straight, reducing less strain and injury. Annd in return more stretch and recruitment of the ham's & glutes, not the lower back.

Might consider the Romanian DL (rather than SLDL's), when the bar is only lowered a bit below the knee/mid shin level. The back is kept straight throughout the movement, while the hams receive a very good stretch. When doing lighter weighted SLDL's or Romanian DL for higher reps, have the toes resting on a 2X4/plates/etc for a much better stretch to the hams and calves.

Some long distance runners will include regular squats in their training routine, which I might suggest rather than leg presses or leg extensions. They also do one legged step-ups/lunges (holding DB's, in most cases). The advantage of working one leg at a time can become clear to anyone who spends a fair amount of time on them and the positive affect on balance & strength.  Even something like Hindu squats (bwt only), in higher reps of 100- 300  or more, aid running.  Good Luck
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« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 01:57:10 PM »

Watch stiff legged deads. I have done them in the past, but my doctor and chiro have warned me they are not good for the spine. I replaced them with roman chair hyper extensions.



I do these for hamstrings. Why are they not good for the spine?
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« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 04:07:51 PM »

If you are not training to pose on a stage or something sport specific there is nothing wrong with just doing sprints and distance for legs. Way before Arnold and Sly were action figures back in the day it was Brad Harris. This American mainly did movies in Europe during the 60's . He was a training animal. He was well known by all the major bodybuilders of the day. Arnold wanted him to compete but he didn't have the interest. He was always training along side the major stars in the 60's. He only lifted for the upper body. He felt all the running he did was enough for his legs. He was fast in both distance and sprints. According to an interview I read, he said he used through the years many different methods of lifting. He mainly settled on using three exercises per body part and three sets of 12 reps. The picture below is during his later years. I bet he was in his late 50's when it was taken.

I just read how he trains at 75 is different but he still only uses running up stairs and sprints on a bike for legs.


..



* image.jpg (76.48 KB, 574x435 - viewed 166 times.)
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2013, 01:58:14 AM »

SLDL's are one of the exercises that are abused by most BB'ers. Too much rounding of the back and trying to go lower than really needed.And with less focus on the ham's themselves.  Most regular DL's seem to turn into a SLDL's, with the strain on the lower back and rounded shoulders.  With SLDL's and regular DL's, the idea is to keep the spine area straight, reducing less strain and injury. Annd in return more stretch and recruitment of the ham's & glutes, not the lower back.

Might consider the Romanian DL (rather than SLDL's), when the bar is only lowered a bit below the knee/mid shin level. The back is kept straight throughout the movement, while the hams receive a very good stretch. When doing lighter weighted SLDL's or Romanian DL for higher reps, have the toes resting on a 2X4/plates/etc for a much better stretch to the hams and calves.

Some long distance runners will include regular squats in their training routine, which I might suggest rather than leg presses or leg extensions. They also do one legged step-ups/lunges (holding DB's, in most cases). The advantage of working one leg at a time can become clear to anyone who spends a fair amount of time on them and the positive affect on balance & strength.  Even something like Hindu squats (bwt only), in higher reps of 100- 300  or more, aid running.  Good Luck

From a man who knows Huh


* 12121.jpg (40.03 KB, 333x500 - viewed 149 times.)
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2013, 04:48:55 AM »

I do these for hamstrings. Why are they not good for the spine?

A fellow bodybuilder who I competed against is a chiropractor. He is the one who warned me SLD's put too much pressure on the spine.
Then again, I also did them with a barbell, while standing on a bench for the extra range of motion. I always let the bar touch my feet. He may have warned me partially due to that.
He and I have a different schedule, and I rarely see him. When I do, I will make it a point to discuss this with him further, to see if he has any more insight on the matter.
If they work for you, and you don't have any negative effects on your spine, I don't see any reason for concern.

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