Australia of Peace...

[Alex23]

This was my argument, people waving guns around generally want something, in most cases money or something of value.  Give them what they want and you get to live another day.  No need to be a hero and force a shootout at the O.K. Corral.

A psychotic Shooter going on a mass killing spree, can't be compromised with as they just want to take as much revenge on society as they can.  These type of  mass killing sprees are preventable with strict gun control I believe. At least it has worked here in Australia.  Farmers and Hunters can still get a gun license, sports shooters can too, although there are some strict requirements, but those who are generally responsible can get them.

How do you explain this?

[Mr Nobody]

When I lived in sydney my girl friend was working in a pub when it got robbed. Gun in her face.

Cops turned up while it was in progress but stayed hidden outside and let the robbers leave with the cash.

Nobody was hurt and the CCTV was used to figure out who did it and they were arrested shortly after.

Imagine this situation in the USA....

I assume this was on Oxford Street.

[Radical Plato]

How do you explain this?

What, your false statistics?

[Alex23]

What, your false statistics?

You're delusional. Educate yourself.

[jwb]

You are 27 times more likely to be murdered by a gun in the USA than Australia.

[Radical Plato]

You're delusional. Educate yourself.

lol @ posting videos from nearly 20 years ago.  Like I said, Gun Nutters are in the minority, they aren't representative of the general public.  You notice the story was Australian video footage with American voiceover.  The Americans have deliberately distorted Australian Crime statistics for years, even to the point where are Governor General asked the NRA to remove their false statistics from their webpage.  If you can't see that you are being sold self serving propaganda by the pro gun crowd you are delusional.

[O.Z.]

Don't know about other states but here in qld people feel safer having around one of these babies

[Alex23]

lol @ posting videos from nearly 20 years ago.  Like I said, Gun Nutters are in the minority, they aren't representative of the general public.  You notice the story was Australian video footage with American voiceover.  The Americans have deliberately distorted Australian Crime statistics for years, even to the point where are Governor General asked the NRA to remove their false statistics from their webpage.  If you can't see that you are being sold self serving propaganda by the pro gun crowd you are delusional.

Your own people are contradicting you:

From: Ed Chenel, a police officer in Australia.

Hi Yanks,

I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!). In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of guns."

You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the state Assembly disseminating this information.

The Australian experience proves it. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note Americans, before it's too late!

 http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp#F4ZVARUgyDefsxy4.99

[Radical Plato]

Your own people are contradicting you:

From: Ed Chenel, a police officer in Australia.

Hi Yanks,

I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!). In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of guns."

You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the state Assembly disseminating this information.

The Australian experience proves it. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note Americans, before it's too late!

 http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp#F4ZVARUgyDefsxy4.99

Once again, you are posting information from over a decade ago, and by someone who doesn't represent the majority.  This is just propaganda. It is well recognised that tightening up guns laws is a long term proposition.  It takes time for results to become visible.  All later studies unequivocally show that the majority of gun related crime went on a serious decline after the strict gun regulations went into place.  Perhaps you should look at peer reviewed studies such as the one done by Monash University that clearly concluded that dramatic reductions in overall firearm related deaths and particularly suicides by firearms were achieved in the context of the implementation of strong regulatory reform.

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/5/280.full

[Alex23]

Once again, you are posting information from over a decade ago, and by someone who doesn't represent the majority.  This is just propaganda. It is well recognised that tightening up guns laws is a long term proposition.  It takes time for results to become visible.  All later studies unequivocally show that the majority of gun related crime went on a serious decline after the strict gun regulations went into place.  Perhaps you should look at peer reviewed studies such as the one done by Monash University that clearly concluded that dramatic reductions in overall firearm related deaths and particularly suicides by firearms were achieved in the context of the implementation of strong regulatory reform.

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/5/280.full

Stats are timeless chief. They don't lie or take sides.

[Radical Plato]

Stats are timeless chief. They don't lie or take sides.

Exactly, that's why I said look at the recent study, you actually haven't presented any stats, just made up figures unrelated to strict gun regulations.  In 1996, the new gun legislation was introduced, in that year there were 354 victims of homocide, but only 260 victims in 2010, a decrease of 27 percent



Here in Australia our gun control has so far prevented a mass shooting since legislation was introduced.  Australia had 13 gun massacres in the 18 years before the 1996 gun reforms, but has not suffered any mass shootings since.

So I agree, Stats are timeless, they don't lie.  What are the stats on how many mass shootings in America since 1996?

[Alex23]

Sorry chief. But not having guns doesn't make your country any safer. It's actually worse than the US 

At least here citizens have the right to defend themselves. 

[Radical Plato]

Sorry chief. But not having guns doesn't make your country any safer. It's actually worse than the US  

At least here citizens have the right to defend themselves.  

Just look at the Incarceration rate, tells the whole story, there's crime and then there's crime that leads to jail time.  And once again you just throw out ridiculous cherry picked stats more than likely generated by a pro gun group.  Nobody cares about general crime, a broken nose from a fist fight is no big deal, you get to live another day.  The issue is what is the potential to be seriously injured or killed, and in Australia that is far less likely than America. America has the worst homicide rate in the Western World.  To get a better idea of the situation, Australia's annual homicide rate is the equivalent of Americas weekly homicide rate.

Crimes like assaults have nothing to do with guns, Weapons (including knives) are only used in 13% of assaults and 2% of sexual assaults in Australia. Firearms are rarely the weapon used, and only 0.3% of assaults  used firearms.  Firearm use is almost completely irrelevant to assault and sexual assault in Australia, and cannot be driving changes in these crimes. Suggesting otherwise is deceptive.

If there are zero guns in any population, people are still going to assault each other.  People owning guns doesn't deter people from fighting at a nightclub, or in their homes or in the streets.  All guns do is escalate a situation from a fist fight/ robbery/mugging etc.. to a potential manslaughter/homicide situation.  Guns make it easy for anyone to easily kill anybody else.  Killing someone with a knife, an axe, a screw driver etc is far more difficult, for one you need to get close to the person and you more than likely need a physical advantage, you also need the constitution to kill someone in such a violent and bloody manner, something most guns owners don't possess.

You are seriously deluded if you think you are safer in America than in Australia.  

[Roger Bacon]

Just look at the Incarceration rate, tells the whole story, there's crime and then there's crime that leads to jail time.  And once again you just throw out ridiculous stats more than likely generate by a pro gun group.  Nobody cares about general crime, a broken nose from a fist fight is no big deal you get to live another day, the issue is what is the potential to be seriously injured or killed, and in Australia that is far less likely than America. America has the worst homicide rate in the Western World.

Crimes like assaults have nothing to do with guns, if their are zero guns in any population, people are still going to assault each other.  People owning guns doesn't deter people from fighting at a nightclub, or in their homes or in the streets.  All guns do is escalate a situation from a fist fight/ robbery/mugging etc.. to a potential manslaughter/homicide situation.  Guns make it easy for anyone to easily kill anybody else.  Killing someone with a knife, an axe, a screw driver etc is far more difficult, for one you need to get close to the person and you more than likely need a physical advantage, you also need the constitution to kill someone in such a violent and bloody manner, something most guns owners don't possess.

You are seriously deluded if you think you are safer in America than in Australia.  You only need to look at the security at schools to determine that.  Australian Schools have zero security, no metal detectors, no pat down searches and all manner of prison like security measures.  To get a better idea of the situation, Australia's annual homicide rate is the equivalent of Americas weekly homicide rate.

You've seen way to many movies. The schools here don't have security, maybe in urban areas? I've never been a victim of crime in my life besides having something stolen I foolishly left out of my garage. I don't know of one shooting in my hometown.

Our massivly deverse urban ghettos in a few large cities which are really a by product of our country's unique history are the cause of our skewed homicide rate. That's not something you encounter in 95% of the country, it's a complete non issue.

[Radical Plato]

You've seen way to many movies. The schools here don't have security, maybe in urban areas? I've never been a victim of crime in my life besides having something stolen I foolishly left out of my garage. I don't know of one shooting in my hometown.

Our massivly deverse urban ghettos in a few large cities which are really a by product of our country's unique history are the cause of our skewed homicide rate. That's not something you encounter in 95% of the country, it's a complete non issue.

So if you have never been a victim of crime, don't know anybody who has and your hometown is safe, why do you need a gun for protection?  Do you anticipate a dramatic crime increase?  Why are you so afraid?

[Roger Bacon]

So if you have never been a victim of crime, don't know anybody who has and your hometown is safe, why do you need a gun for protection?  Do you anticipate a dramatic crime increase?  Why are you so afraid?

It's not about self defense or hunting, that's the part you don't understand. I know tons of people who don't have guns, whose parents didn't have guns, but they still understand how important the 2nd amendment is.

The right to bear arms is also part of almost every state constitution.

[Radical Plato]

It's not about self defense or hunting, that's the part you don't understand. I know tons of people who don't have guns, whose parents didn't have guns, but they still understand how important the 2nd amendment is.

The right to bear arms is also part of almost every state constitution.

You do realise you are simply posting propaganda.

The German government that immediately preceded Hitler’s, actually had tougher gun laws than the Nazi regime.  Hitler actually completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition.  Do you really think if Jews were armed they would defeat the SA, SS and the Wehrmacht. The [Russian] Red Army lost 7 million men fighting the Wehrmacht, despite its tanks and planes and artillery. The Jews with pistols and shotguns would have done better?”  Gun control doesn't cause genocide (genocidal regimes cause genocide).

As for Stalin, the very idea of either gun control or the freedom to bear arms would have been absurd to him. His regime used violence on a vast scale, provided arms to thugs of all descriptions, and stripped not guns but any human image from those it declared to be its enemies. And then, when it needed them, as in WWII, it took millions of men out of the Gulags, trained and armed them and sent them to fight Hitler, only to send back the few survivors into the camps if they uttered any criticism of the regime.

And Australian citizens has been disarmed for nearly twenty years, how long do we have to wait for the genocidal regime to kick in for it to be linked with disarming citizens?

[Radical Plato]

You're misinformed. Go read the 2nd Amendement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Article I of the Constitution allows militias to "suppress Insurrections," not cause them. If you think the Constitution allows you to rebel against the government, guess what? The Constitution says you're a traitor. The Constitution defines treason as 'levying War' against the government in Article III and the states can ask the federal government for assistance 'against domestic Violence' under Article IV.

[Alex23]

Article I of the Constitution allows militias to "suppress Insurrections," not cause them. If you think the Constitution allows you to rebel against the government, guess what? The Constitution says you're a traitor. The Constitution defines treason as 'levying War' against the government in Article III and the states can ask the federal government for assistance 'against domestic Violence' under Article IV.

Sure chief, slice and dice it any way you want. Bottom line is this country was founded by patriots passionate about eradicating imperialist oppression and thinking outside the box. We did it with guns and will do it again.  As simple as that.

In the meatime, god bless the "Queen" 

[Mawse]

Sweden is quite possibly the most far left progressive totalitarian regime in the west, but they still allow and even encourage gun ownership. I find it odd so many other, less left leaning countries brainwashed their citizens to fear legal handguns

As a side note, got the mk25 today 

[Alex23]

Sweden is quite possibly the most far left progressive totalitarian regime in the west, but they still allow and even encourage gun ownership. I find it odd so many other, less left leaning countries brainwashed their citizens to fear legal handguns

As a side note, got the mk25 today  

Hey congrats dude, great gun!

Switzerland, one of the most progressive country in the world:
Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a people's militia for its national defense. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations;

Gun violence in Switzerland: non existent.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

abs = Australian Bureau of Statistics.

Yet face tattoo's are on the rise

[Mawse]

Hey congrats dude, great gun!

Switzerland, one of the most progressive country in the world:
Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a people's militia for its national defense. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations;

Gun violence in Switzerland: non existent.

Ty, thankfully I got the model without the retarded Pelosi flag LCI, I love this country for allowing us to own these. even my formerly gun phobic Canadian wife is now asking about a "cute" .38. Apparently even in alameda its possible to get a ccw ... not likely but its worth a try.

I'm sure sweden and Switzerland will become more restrictive on legal gun ownership as their mass of immigrants commit more crime with illegal guns, and punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty.. That's usually how it works

[Mr Nobody]

[Radical Plato]

Hey congrats dude, great gun!

Switzerland, one of the most progressive country in the world:
Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a people's militia for its national defense. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations;

Gun violence in Switzerland: non existent.

Yeah, but you are talking about a nation of grown ups, rational and reasonable people.  America is a melting pot of mental illness, with even those considered reasonably sane are borderline crazy.  Switzerland= Nation of sane people,  America = Country of Crazy people.