UFC 168 - Payroll - So embarrassing it's pitiful.

[Schnauzer]

The money goes to the owners and executives of the UFC. Some of these big UFC fights are generating the same amount of money as any boxing match. UFC sells out the venue all the time. There PPV is through the roof. It's really disturbing what they pay the fighters. Don't tell me GSP is a millionaire. Mayweather laughs at his money. I'm sure the top business men at the UFC laugh at GSP money. The UFC really is a monopoly. Sure there are other federations but they a nothing compared to UFC.  If the fighters unionized they would just hype other fighters and continue the show.

From Forbes Magazine Nov 2013:

GSP made roughly $9 million combined for his past two fights, according to multiple sources close to the fighter. His current annual income outside the octagon from endorsements, memorabilia and licensing adds another $3 million. St-Pierre’s total income of $12 million over the last 12 months makes him the top earner in MMA.

  http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2013/11/16/how-georges-st-pierre-makes-12-million-a-year/

[luvvsuNOT]

People have to understand the basic economic principle of supply and demand. The buyer always wants to pay the least amount possible and the seller always wants to get the most amount possible. The present financial situation of either party is irrelevant. If I pay someone $50 to cut my grass it doesn't matter whether I live in a mansion and I'm a billionaire and therefore can "afford" to pay more or live in a little shack and make 30 grand a year. I pay the market rate. If some offers to cut my grass for $40 instead of $50 am I a cheapskate for wanting to hire and give that other person a job? Are you a cheapskate because instead of paying $600 for that new clothes dryer and you found the exact same thing for $500 elsewhere?

What do professional Judo and Jiu-Jitsu competitors make from their respective organizations? They make nothing. In fact, if you want to compete in Judo and Jiu-Jitsu tournaments you have to pay the organization. With Jiu-Jitsu your talking a $60-$80 entrance fee. They do it because they love the sport. That's how all or most MMA fighters start out. They love to fight and be a fighter. If you're main goal in life is to make money there are better and safer ways to do it. 

Of course UFC fighters want to make more money. We all want to make money. But how do I know they are not under paid or rather how do I know they don't think they are under paid? It's because they are clamoring and begging and killing themselves to fight in the UFC. It's what they want to do. All started fighting for free and would continue fighting for free just like Jiu-Jitsu competitors. All those who first started in the UFC did it because they love the sport. Just like in bodybuilding. I'm sure now because there is money to be made in the UFC many are doing it hoping to make it big and will quit when they realized they have no chance. But the fact is that if you are an MMA fighter you aspire to fight in the UFC regardless of what they pay. Just like Jiu-Jitsu and Grapplers aspire to compete in the Abu Dhabi even though there's no money to be made and the often huge expense they have to take on just to compete in that event.

In any transaction between a buyer and a seller, and as long as there is not a third party with no stake in the outcome meddling in the deal, if the transaction is competed and closed it's because both parties believe they have gotten the best deal that they can under the current conditions. They always want a better deal but in real life you take the best deal given your alternatives. A UFC fighter accepts his pay because he believe that he can't get a better deal elsewhere. If he could, he would. The UFC organization, as with all buyers of any goods or services, pays whatever they want and usually that's as little as they can get away with. It's business. If a fighter has proven himself valuable enough to the company, meaning that they can bring in the dollars, then they start having some clout and negotiate a better deal. 

There is no exploitation because nobody is forced to do anything they don't want or agree to.

[luvvsuNOT]

where does all the money go,someone is getting very rich on these fighters

Isn't that the whole reason someone takes on the risk going into business. Dana White and Company took a big risk buying the rights  to the UFC when it was losing money and going down hill fast. They did it because they thought they thought they could bet very rich on these fighters.

Just like this fifteen year old girl did when she came up with the ideal to sell fish Flip Flops. Fish Flops. Just like all business owners do.

http://www.examiner.com/article/15-year-old-girl-has-become-a-millionaire-by-selling-flip-flops

[thebrink]

People have to understand the basic economic principle of supply and demand. The buyer always wants to pay the least amount possible and the seller always wants to get the most amount possible. The present financial situation of either party is irrelevant. If I pay someone $50 to cut my grass it doesn't matter whether I live in a mansion and I'm a billionaire and therefore can "afford" to pay more or live in a little shack and make 30 grand a year. I pay the market rate. If some offers to cut my grass for $40 instead of $50 am I a cheapskate for wanting to hire and give that other person a job? Are you a cheapskate because instead of paying $600 for that new clothes dryer and you found the exact same thing for $500 elsewhere?

What do professional Judo and Jiu-Jitsu competitors make from their respective organizations? They make nothing. In fact, if you want to compete in Judo and Jiu-Jitsu tournaments you have to pay the organization. With Jiu-Jitsu your talking a $60-$80 entrance fee. They do it because they love the sport. That's how all or most MMA fighters start out. They love to fight and be a fighter. If you're main goal in life is to make money there are better and safer ways to do it. 

Of course UFC fighters want to make more money. We all want to make money. But how do I know they are not under paid or rather how do I know they don't think they are under paid? It's because they are clamoring and begging and killing themselves to fight in the UFC. It's what they want to do. All started fighting for free and would continue fighting for free just like Jiu-Jitsu competitors. All those who first started in the UFC did it because they love the sport. Just like in bodybuilding. I'm sure now because there is money to be made in the UFC many are doing it hoping to make it big and will quit when they realized they have no chance. But the fact is that if you are an MMA fighter you aspire to fight in the UFC regardless of what they pay. Just like Jiu-Jitsu and Grapplers aspire to compete in the Abu Dhabi even though there's no money to be made and the often huge expense they have to take on just to compete in that event.

In any transaction between a buyer and a seller, and as long as there is not a third party with no stake in the outcome meddling in the deal, if the transaction is competed and closed it's because both parties believe they have gotten the best deal that they can under the current conditions. They always want a better deal but in real life you take the best deal given your alternatives. A UFC fighter accepts his pay because he believe that he can't get a better deal elsewhere. If he could, he would. The UFC organization, as with all buyers of any goods or services, pays whatever they want and usually that's as little as they can get away with. It's business. If a fighter has proven himself valuable enough to the company, meaning that they can bring in the dollars, then they start having some clout and negotiate a better deal. 

There is no exploitation because nobody is forced to do anything they don't want or agree to.

GOOD POST, qft!

[Thin Lizzy]

Isn't that the whole reason someone takes on the risk going into business. Dana White and Company took a big risk buying the rights  to the UFC when it was losing money and going down hill fast. They did it because they thought they thought they could bet very rich on these fighters.

Just like this fifteen year old girl did when she came up with the ideal to sell fish Flip Flops. Fish Flops. Just like all business owners do.

http://www.examiner.com/article/15-year-old-girl-has-become-a-millionaire-by-selling-flip-flops

People consider profits and not losses. I'm pretty sure some pro bbing shows have lost money. Did the competitors give back their prize money?

[JUSTJAXX]

So UFC sponser Monster energy drink have now started making Beats by Dre clones...

And all your favorite fighters are wearing them!


You can own a pair for.....wait for it.........

its actually MONSTER CABLE/PRODUCTS that was originally making the beats by Dre, then they had a split so these are the current monster brand headphones that replaced the "beats"

monster energy drink is not a sponsor, not with xyience in the way...and they have nothing to do with headphones.  If you wanna talk shit about something, at least get your facts straight

I agree its lame to see all these people walking to the ring with headphones around their necks without any wire attached to anything but hey, if Monster Cable is paying for the advertising and sponsorship fees, why not allow them to provide further income to the fighters

[luvvsuNOT]

People consider profits and not losses. I'm pretty sure some pro bbing shows have lost money. Did the competitors give back their prize money?

EXACTLY! Notice it's always the employers, the organzations, the companies, the "big business" that are always the bad guys and the exploiters. The very people who are actually creating these jobs and opportunities.

Jay Leno makes in excess of 20 million a year. Arod is paid nearly 30 million a year. Kobe makes in excess of 30 million a year. Surprisingly, Robert Downy Jr. made 75 million dollars in one year. Why aren't they accused of "exploiting" their employers? Nobody "needs" that kind of money and they certainly aren't working any harder than a Mexican immigrant picking oranges everyday.

Johnny Carson was once asked why he thinks he deserved that amount of money he gets doing his talk show. He answered, "Because I can get it." There's a difference between the cost and the value of a good or service.

You get what you can. And pay the least amount you can get away with. We all do that. It's called the free market.

[Radical Plato]

People have to understand the basic economic principle of supply and demand. The buyer always wants to pay the least amount possible and the seller always wants to get the most amount possible. The present financial situation of either party is irrelevant. If I pay someone $50 to cut my grass it doesn't matter whether I live in a mansion and I'm a billionaire and therefore can "afford" to pay more or live in a little shack and make 30 grand a year. I pay the market rate. If some offers to cut my grass for $40 instead of $50 am I a cheapskate for wanting to hire and give that other person a job? Are you a cheapskate because instead of paying $600 for that new clothes dryer and you found the exact same thing for $500 elsewhere?

What do professional Judo and Jiu-Jitsu competitors make from their respective organizations? They make nothing. In fact, if you want to compete in Judo and Jiu-Jitsu tournaments you have to pay the organization. With Jiu-Jitsu your talking a $60-$80 entrance fee. They do it because they love the sport. That's how all or most MMA fighters start out. They love to fight and be a fighter. If you're main goal in life is to make money there are better and safer ways to do it.  

Of course UFC fighters want to make more money. We all want to make money. But how do I know they are not under paid or rather how do I know they don't think they are under paid? It's because they are clamoring and begging and killing themselves to fight in the UFC. It's what they want to do. All started fighting for free and would continue fighting for free just like Jiu-Jitsu competitors. All those who first started in the UFC did it because they love the sport. Just like in bodybuilding. I'm sure now because there is money to be made in the UFC many are doing it hoping to make it big and will quit when they realized they have no chance. But the fact is that if you are an MMA fighter you aspire to fight in the UFC regardless of what they pay. Just like Jiu-Jitsu and Grapplers aspire to compete in the Abu Dhabi even though there's no money to be made and the often huge expense they have to take on just to compete in that event.

In any transaction between a buyer and a seller, and as long as there is not a third party with no stake in the outcome meddling in the deal, if the transaction is competed and closed it's because both parties believe they have gotten the best deal that they can under the current conditions. They always want a better deal but in real life you take the best deal given your alternatives. A UFC fighter accepts his pay because he believe that he can't get a better deal elsewhere. If he could, he would. The UFC organization, as with all buyers of any goods or services, pays whatever they want and usually that's as little as they can get away with. It's business. If a fighter has proven himself valuable enough to the company, meaning that they can bring in the dollars, then they start having some clout and negotiate a better deal.  

There is no exploitation because nobody is forced to do anything they don't want or agree to.

It's always exploitation. Do you think people would work for anyone else if they already had the resources they needed to make a living?  The Elites have already gobbled up the majority of the resources that Nature provided to everyone leaving everyone else no choice but to sell their labour to obtain what was rightfully given to them by Nature but stolen by rich fat cats.

Give a man some fertile land and he could easily make a living and set his own terms, he could chop wood, build his own house, grow vegetables, farm livestock etc etc and set his own limits on how much he wants to labour.  Yet, when the Elites make it so the only way for the lower class to get a property is to sell his labour for a lifetime, he is then nothing more than a slave.

No,I am not a communist, just think the current system sucks, and no I am not sure exactly how to make it better. I think current private property laws suck, they are a perversion of their original intent, and if their was a revolution to overthrow the Elites I would be there in a heartbeat.

[luvvsuNOT]

It's always exploitation. Do you think people would work for anyone else if they already had the resources they needed to make a living?  The Elites have already gobbled up the majority of the resources that Nature provided to everyone leaving everyone else no choice but to sell their labour to obtain what was rightfully given to them by Nature but stolen by rich fat cats.

Give a man some fertile land and he could easily make a living and set his own terms, he could chop wood, build his own house, grow vegetables, farm livestock etc etc and set his own limits on how much he wants to labour.  Yet, when the Elites make it so the only way for the lower class to get a property is to sell his labour for a lifetime, he is then nothing more than a slave.

No,I am not a communist, just think the current system sucks, and no I am not sure exactly how to make it better. I think current private property laws suck, they are a perversion of their original intent, and if their was a revolution to overthrow the Elites I would be there in a heartbeat.

No, you're wrong. Only when you are being forced, meaning coerced, into doing something you don't want to do is when you are exploited. Having limited choices and choosing the best alternative is not being exploited.   

Life is about making the best choices given your alternatives. A person works at a certain job at a certain pay because he isn't able to find a better deal. That's how everything is. And this idea of just giving a person some fertile he could make a good living. You know how to build a house? You like indoor plumbing? You like watching the UFC? You like having a refrigerator? When I hear all this back to nature stuff I wonder how are you living? You take so much for granted. So much that makes your life comfortable and relatively easy. It doesn't matter what the weather is you'll always have meat, fruits and vegetables of all kinds.

You think people that work for others are exploited. Say people that work for McDonalds or Walmart. Would society be better off if we got rid of all fast food restaurant, say all restaurants, and all stores? Would we be better off? Again, how are you living? Why aren't you living on your own terms? I'll tell you why, because, again, given the alternatives what you are doing i is the best that you are willing to do. If you had better options you would take them. Your life style would take a huge dump if you had to try and make it on your own. Grow your own fruits and vegetables, hunt for your food, build and maintain your own house, protect yourself against intruders, make your own clothes and shoes... the list goes on.

Some people have better choices than others. Some have to buy a Toyota Corrolla not because it's their dream car but because they can't buy a Lambo. That's life. It's not being exploited or coerced into doing anything. You diminish the suffering of people who are truly exploited. Who are truly slaves. Who don't have a choice to just go somewhere else because they would get punished, maimed or killed.

[Radical Plato]

No, you're wrong. Only when you are being forced, meaning coerced, into doing something you don't want to do is when you are exploited. Having limited choices and choosing the best alternative is not being exploited.  

Life is about making the best choices given your alternatives. A person works at a certain job at a certain pay because he isn't able to find a better deal. That's how everything is. And this idea of just giving a person some fertile he could make a good living. You know how to build a house? You like indoor plumbing? You like watching the UFC? You like having a refrigerator? When I hear all this back to nature stuff I wonder how are you living? You take so much for granted. So much that makes your life comfortable and relatively easy. It doesn't matter what the weather is you'll always have meat, fruits and vegetables of all kinds.

You think people that work for others are exploited. Say people that work for McDonalds or Walmart. Would society be better off if we got rid of all fast food restaurant, say all restaurants, and all stores? Would we be better off? Again, how are you living? Why aren't you living on your own terms? I'll tell you why, because, again, given the alternatives what you are doing i is the best that you are willing to do. If you had better options you would take them. Your life style would take a huge dump if you had to try and make it on your own. Grow your own fruits and vegetables, hunt for your food, build and maintain your own house, protect yourself against intruders, make your own clothes and shoes... the list goes on.

Some people have better choices than others. Some have to buy a Toyota Corrolla not because it's their dream car but because they can't buy a Lambo. That's life. It's not being exploited or coerced into doing anything. You diminish the suffering of people who are truly exploited. Who are truly slaves. Who don't have a choice to just go somewhere else because they would get punished, maimed or killed.

What a load of codswallop.  I didn't say there weren't people being even more exploited than I, just that there are the exploiters and the exploited.  And of course people are being coerced, you try dropping out of capitalist society, finding a piece of crown land and becoming self sufficient.  Once the authorities find out they will lock you up, doing this is illegal.  You either opt into the current system or you opt out and will be punished for it. Having to choose between a turd and a bowl of piss doesn't constitute real choice.  The sad part is, people like you who are being just as exploited as the next man have come to normalize this overt exploitation and label it as 'That's life'.  You are simply a contented slave.

Modern lifestyle may well be comfortable, well,I wouldn't even say comfortable, it's swings between being shitty the times you are doing the things you don't want to do (working for the man) to being comfortable, the short intervals between working for the man. But modern society certainly isn't good for you.  Being given an opportunity to be self sufficient although harder work is far more rewarding and character building than working 8 hours in a shitty soulless job only to come home and comfort yourself with mod cons.  The Amish do just fine, as do those in Alaska as do many societies that don't have access to mod cons.  Being allowed to watch UFC, have access to modern plumbing etc etc isn't worth much if you have to suck  the MAN'S COCK for a lifetime.

And I would be more than happy to get rid of Walmart and fast food as long as Individuals are granted some fertile property with some natural resources on it.  Tress, water, grass etc.  And it doesn't even have to be a back to nature scenario, just a more equitable distribution of resources.  When the a tiny minority of elites control the majority of the worlds resources there is something seriously perverted about that.  Like I said, I don't have all the answers, but the current paradigm is ridiculous.    I think the genius of the Elites is getting those they exploit to promote their agenda.  This is comparable to slaves promoting the Slave trade.  Truly Fascinating !

[Kwon_2]

Payroll of Peace

[luvvsuNOT]

What a load of codswallop.  I didn't say there weren't people being even more exploited than I, just that there are the exploiters and the exploited.  And of course people are being coerced, you try dropping out of capitalist society, finding a piece of crown land and becoming self sufficient.  Once the authorities find out they will lock you up, doing this is illegal.  You either opt into the current system or you opt out and will be punished for it. Having to choose between a turd and a bowl of piss doesn't constitute real choice.  The sad part is, people like you who are being just as exploited as the next man have come to normalize this overt exploitation and label it as 'That's life'.  You are simply a contented slave.

Modern lifestyle may well be comfortable, well,I wouldn't even say comfortable, it's swings between being shitty the times you are doing the things you don't want to do (working for the man) to being comfortable, the short intervals between working for the man. But modern society certainly isn't good for you.  Being given an opportunity to be self sufficient although harder work is far more rewarding and character building than working 8 hours in a shitty soulless job only to come home and comfort yourself with mod cons.  The Amish do just fine, as do those in Alaska as do many societies that don't have access to mod cons.  Being allowed to watch UFC, have access to modern plumbing etc etc isn't worth much if you have to suck  the MAN'S COCK for a lifetime.

And I would be more than happy to get rid of Walmart and fast food as long as Individuals are granted some fertile property with some natural resources on it.  Tress, water, grass etc.  And it doesn't even have to be a back to nature scenario, just a more equitable distribution of resources.  When the a tiny minority of elites control the majority of the worlds resources there is something seriously perverted about that.  Like I said, I don't have all the answers, but the current paradigm is ridiculous.    I think the genius of the Elites is getting those they exploit to promote their agenda.  This is comparable to slaves promoting the Slave trade.  Truly Fascinating !

You seem to be taking this personally. Why is that? I just want to have an honest debate and examine the alternatives and choose what is best. Have you ever tried to be self sufficient? Why not? It's b.s. to say you can't head out into the woods and live on your own. Some people do it. Goodrum is on that way though he still relies on the capitalist market for money. But he also makes a lot of personal sacrifices that others aren't willing to make. Remember Ted Kaczynski? He lived on his own. So do many homeless people.

If you were willing, and you won't, to give up the comforts created and provided by others, you could live on your own. It's just that your life style wouldn't be better than what you have now. It would be far worse. The problem is that you think you can heaven on earth. That you can, should and deserve to get everything you want the way you want it. But life is all about trade offs. A perpetual compromise between the ideal and the possible. So you blame others. You blame the "elite" that "control" your life. How did they get to be elites? How did Walmart and McDonalds own such a big market share? How did the UFC get to be so big and powerful? How come you can't do the same?

Look at how people live "in nature" without modern conveniences. Look at how they use to live. Their quality of life. Their life span. How much leisure time they had. Did they have the time and energy to lift weight and worry about how their body looks? Get in their 5-6 meals a day and meet their protein requirements for their muscles? Did they have the time and energy to train to be MMA fighters? Again, my friend, you take so much for granted. Compared to your grandparents you live a life of luxury in comparison. I know that just by the fact that you have a computer and the time to debate these issues. Now compare that to how they lived a century ago. Five centuries ago.

[Nomad]

People have to understand the basic economic principle of supply and demand. The buyer always wants to pay the least amount possible and the seller always wants to get the most amount possible. The present financial situation of either party is irrelevant. If I pay someone $50 to cut my grass it doesn't matter whether I live in a mansion and I'm a billionaire and therefore can "afford" to pay more or live in a little shack and make 30 grand a year. I pay the market rate. If some offers to cut my grass for $40 instead of $50 am I a cheapskate for wanting to hire and give that other person a job? Are you a cheapskate because instead of paying $600 for that new clothes dryer and you found the exact same thing for $500 elsewhere?

What do professional Judo and Jiu-Jitsu competitors make from their respective organizations? They make nothing. In fact, if you want to compete in Judo and Jiu-Jitsu tournaments you have to pay the organization. With Jiu-Jitsu your talking a $60-$80 entrance fee. They do it because they love the sport. That's how all or most MMA fighters start out. They love to fight and be a fighter. If you're main goal in life is to make money there are better and safer ways to do it. 

Of course UFC fighters want to make more money. We all want to make money. But how do I know they are not under paid or rather how do I know they don't think they are under paid? It's because they are clamoring and begging and killing themselves to fight in the UFC. It's what they want to do. All started fighting for free and would continue fighting for free just like Jiu-Jitsu competitors. All those who first started in the UFC did it because they love the sport. Just like in bodybuilding. I'm sure now because there is money to be made in the UFC many are doing it hoping to make it big and will quit when they realized they have no chance. But the fact is that if you are an MMA fighter you aspire to fight in the UFC regardless of what they pay. Just like Jiu-Jitsu and Grapplers aspire to compete in the Abu Dhabi even though there's no money to be made and the often huge expense they have to take on just to compete in that event.

In any transaction between a buyer and a seller, and as long as there is not a third party with no stake in the outcome meddling in the deal, if the transaction is competed and closed it's because both parties believe they have gotten the best deal that they can under the current conditions. They always want a better deal but in real life you take the best deal given your alternatives. A UFC fighter accepts his pay because he believe that he can't get a better deal elsewhere. If he could, he would. The UFC organization, as with all buyers of any goods or services, pays whatever they want and usually that's as little as they can get away with. It's business. If a fighter has proven himself valuable enough to the company, meaning that they can bring in the dollars, then they start having some clout and negotiate a better deal. 

There is no exploitation because nobody is forced to do anything they don't want or agree to.

This would work great if there was competition to UFC. But the way things stand, UFC makes millions per each ppv while the fighters barely make any %. Unless you are the top guy at your weight class then after taxes, the training costs, coaches, medical expenses and ofcourse housing and food the average fighter makes shit.

The average pro boxer makes way more then the average UFC fighter and boxers don't have to deal with nasty elbows or knees to the head.

[Nomad]

You seem to be taking this personally. Why is that? I just want to have an honest debate and examine the alternatives and choose what is best. Have you ever tried to be self sufficient? Why not? It's b.s. to say you can't head out into the woods and live on your own. Some people do it. Goodrum is on that way though he still relies on the capitalist market for money. But he also makes a lot of personal sacrifices that others aren't willing to make. Remember Ted Kaczynski? He lived on his own. So do many homeless people.

If you were willing, and you won't, to give up the comforts created and provided by others, you could live on your own. It's just that your life style wouldn't be better than what you have now. It would be far worse. The problem is that you think you can heaven on earth. That you can, should and deserve to get everything you want the way you want it. But life is all about trade offs. A perpetual compromise between the ideal and the possible. So you blame others. You blame the "elite" that "control" your life. How did they get to be elites? How did Walmart and McDonalds own such a big market share? How did the UFC get to be so big and powerful? How come you can't do the same?

Look at how people live "in nature" without modern conveniences. Look at how they use to live. Their quality of life. Their life span. How much leisure time they had. Did they have the time and energy to lift weight and worry about how their body looks? Get in their 5-6 meals a day and meet their protein requirements for their muscles? Did they have the time and energy to train to be MMA fighters? Again, my friend, you take so much for granted. Compared to your grandparents you live a life of luxury in comparison. I know that just by the fact that you have a computer and the time to debate these issues. Now compare that to how they lived a century ago. Five centuries ago.

Don't bother with E-kul. His judgment is severely compromised in some matters and that is putting it mildly.

[asbrus]

the average pro boxer makes way more then the average UFC fighter
 boxers don't have to deal with nasty elbows or knees to the head.

Not true at all. Keep believing that rubbish. Tim bradley has a net worth of 3 million dollars. 6 times less than what the top 10 in the ufc are worth. He's ranked number 1 and is the champ. Andre ward #2 pound for pound was barely breaking half a million per fight until his last fight. There are only a select few boxers who are big draws and they are cotto,mayweather, canelo alvarez, and manny pacquio. Your average boxers barely break 200k per fight. Boxing exploits it's fighters way more than ufc and boxers have to pay managers, cutmen etc also and greedy promoters who rob them.

By the way boxing is way more dangerous due to brain damage because of repeated hits to the head over 12 rounds.

[Radical Plato]

You seem to be taking this personally. Why is that? I just want to have an honest debate and examine the alternatives and choose what is best. Have you ever tried to be self sufficient? Why not? It's b.s. to say you can't head out into the woods and live on your own. Some people do it. Goodrum is on that way though he still relies on the capitalist market for money. But he also makes a lot of personal sacrifices that others aren't willing to make. Remember Ted Kaczynski? He lived on his own. So do many homeless people.

If you were willing, and you won't, to give up the comforts created and provided by others, you could live on your own. It's just that your life style wouldn't be better than what you have now. It would be far worse. The problem is that you think you can heaven on earth. That you can, should and deserve to get everything you want the way you want it. But life is all about trade offs. A perpetual compromise between the ideal and the possible. So you blame others. You blame the "elite" that "control" your life. How did they get to be elites? How did Walmart and McDonalds own such a big market share? How did the UFC get to be so big and powerful? How come you can't do the same?

Look at how people live "in nature" without modern conveniences. Look at how they use to live. Their quality of life. Their life span. How much leisure time they had. Did they have the time and energy to lift weight and worry about how their body looks? Get in their 5-6 meals a day and meet their protein requirements for their muscles? Did they have the time and energy to train to be MMA fighters? Again, my friend, you take so much for granted. Compared to your grandparents you live a life of luxury in comparison. I know that just by the fact that you have a computer and the time to debate these issues. Now compare that to how they lived a century ago. Five centuries ago.

I don't take your point of view personally, I just disagree with it and find it a tad naive.  You cannot just claim crown land as your own and build a house on it.  It's called Crown land for a reason.  It's OWNED by the Government.  If the authorities do find out, they can jail you and destroy any dwellings you have built. And it makes little sense to live in such a way when no one else is, even if you succeeded and created your own little community eventually the Government will simply shut you down. This is my point, you either opt in to the current paradigm which is the equivalent of sucking a cock or you opt out which is also the equivalent of sucking a bowl of dicks.

And you obviously don't understand how the Elites became that way, they are born to the right family.  And often they are quite incestous to keep their money in the family.  Why do you think the Royal family never liked Princess Diana, she wasn't elite enough for the Royal Family.  When I was growing up, the Country's richest man was Kerry Packer, who was an idiot, even his own Father thought so, yet he inherited his wealth and his powerful status.  At least he was honest, he said the secret to success is being born to the right family.  Even those who are fortunate to make a lot of money from humble beginnings are unlikely to penetrate the inner circle of the Elites. They are labelled NEW MONEY and still kept on the outer for the most part.

ANd it is a myth we live any better off than our grandparents, we are far worse off.  A family used to be able to survive on a single wage, not so today.  Their was more value placed on families, integrity and honesty. Not having access to modern technology doesn't equal misery.  As long as people have their basic needs met, that is enough to be happy.  And not only that, you are comparing generations of people who have also been oppressed by the Elites. The rich and powerful have always lived comfortably regardless of which era you point too.  Ask yourself, who benefits from believing as you do? Don't you find it a coincidence that the Elites who control the flow of information and education and somehow you amazingly hold a point of view that corresponds to theirs, that is sympathetic to their cause.  Could it be possible you believe as you do because those who control the system made sure that you think that way?

[luvvsuNOT]

I don't take your point of view personally, I just disagree with it and find it a tad naive.  You cannot just claim crown land as your own and build a house on it.  It's called Crown land for a reason.  It's OWNED by the Government.  If the authorities do find out, they can jail you and destroy any dwellings you have built. And it makes little sense to live in such a way when no one else is, even if you succeeded and created your own little community eventually the Government will simply shut you down. This is my point, you either opt in to the current paradigm which is the equivalent of sucking a cock or you opt out which is also the equivalent of sucking a bowl of dicks.

And you obviously don't understand how the Elites became that way, they are born to the right family.  And often they are quite incestous to keep their money in the family.  Why do you think the Royal family never liked Princess Diana, she wasn't elite enough for the Royal Family.  When I was growing up, the Country's richest man was Kerry Packer, who was an idiot, even his own Father thought so, yet he inherited his wealth and his powerful status.  At least he was honest, he said the secret to success is being born to the right family.  Even those who are fortunate to make a lot of money from humble beginnings are unlikely to penetrate the inner circle of the Elites. They are labelled NEW MONEY and still kept on the outer for the most part.

ANd it is a myth we live any better off than our grandparents, we are far worse off.  A family used to be able to survive on a single wage, not so today.  Their was more value placed on families, integrity and honesty. Not having access to modern technology doesn't equal misery.  As long as people have their basic needs met, that is enough to be happy.  And not only that, you are comparing generations of people who have also been oppressed by the Elites. The rich and powerful have always lived comfortably regardless of which era you point too.  Ask yourself, who benefits from believing as you do? Don't you find it a coincidence that the Elites who control the flow of information and education and somehow you amazingly hold a point of view that corresponds to theirs, that is sympathetic to their cause.  Could it be possible you believe as you do because those who control the system made sure that you think that way?

Where do you live. I'm talking about America. This where the UFC was created and based. There is no Crown land. It is very common for people here to own their land. I have a friend in Montana that owns hundreds of acres.

Most millionaires in this country are first generation millionaires. They didn't inherit it. Bill Gates and Michael Dell didn't inherit anything.

Air conditioning, cell phones, computers, pizza delivery, Amazon, health care, life expectancy, better automobiles, cheaper airline travel, the list is endless. The quality of life is much better today that it was a generation ago. The quality of life is much today than when I was a kid. I had the same injury in both knees ten years apart. The difference and recovery between the first and second, as well as the pain, was incredible. Were talking about a difference in months versus weeks in recovery. You can now have 20-20 vision in less than a half and hour. Even compare the gyms of today to the gyms in the 1950s. Compare the houses.  I don't think I am the naive one.

But you are determine to believe your life is screwed because of other people controlling it. Fair enough.

[oldtimer1]

People have to understand the basic economic principle of supply and demand. The buyer always wants to pay the least amount possible and the seller always wants to get the most amount possible. The present financial situation of either party is irrelevant. If I pay someone $50 to cut my grass it doesn't matter whether I live in a mansion and I'm a billionaire and therefore can "afford" to pay more or live in a little shack and make 30 grand a year. I pay the market rate. If some offers to cut my grass for $40 instead of $50 am I a cheapskate for wanting to hire and give that other person a job? Are you a cheapskate because instead of paying $600 for that new clothes dryer and you found the exact same thing for $500 elsewhere?

What do professional Judo and Jiu-Jitsu competitors make from their respective organizations? They make nothing. In fact, if you want to compete in Judo and Jiu-Jitsu tournaments you have to pay the organization. With Jiu-Jitsu your talking a $60-$80 entrance fee. They do it because they love the sport. That's how all or most MMA fighters start out. They love to fight and be a fighter. If you're main goal in life is to make money there are better and safer ways to do it.  

Of course UFC fighters want to make more money. We all want to make money. But how do I know they are not under paid or rather how do I know they don't think they are under paid? It's because they are clamoring and begging and killing themselves to fight in the UFC. It's what they want to do. All started fighting for free and would continue fighting for free just like Jiu-Jitsu competitors. All those who first started in the UFC did it because they love the sport. Just like in bodybuilding. I'm sure now because there is money to be made in the UFC many are doing it hoping to make it big and will quit when they realized they have no chance. But the fact is that if you are an MMA fighter you aspire to fight in the UFC regardless of what they pay. Just like Jiu-Jitsu and Grapplers aspire to compete in the Abu Dhabi even though there's no money to be made and the often huge expense they have to take on just to compete in that event.

In any transaction between a buyer and a seller, and as long as there is not a third party with no stake in the outcome meddling in the deal, if the transaction is competed and closed it's because both parties believe they have gotten the best deal that they can under the current conditions. They always want a better deal but in real life you take the best deal given your alternatives. A UFC fighter accepts his pay because he believe that he can't get a better deal elsewhere. If he could, he would. The UFC organization, as with all buyers of any goods or services, pays whatever they want and usually that's as little as they can get away with. It's business. If a fighter has proven himself valuable enough to the company, meaning that they can bring in the dollars, then they start having some clout and negotiate a better deal.  

There is no exploitation because nobody is forced to do anything they don't want or agree to.

Sounds like you took a class in economics 101. The truth is they fight for the UFC because they are the only game in town. In boxing different federations popped up when the boxers shopped for their best deal. Then they had to pay big money to get the fights the fans demanded to see.

UFC is a monopoly by any definition. The other organizations are a joke. These MMA guys have no other avenue and the UFC organization is exploiting the situation. They should unionize a strike forcing the UFC to find D list fighters and that would hurt their bottom line. They know they need marquee fighters to make money. An MMA fighter has a very limited self life. That's why unions exist. To stop people with your mentality if they will do it for a penny then I will pay a penny. When Randy Couture was refusing to fight unless they paid him what he wanted the UFC was beside them self putting him down. They knew at the time he was the top dog. They couldn't wait till his career was over.

[XFACTOR]

  Take half away for taxes.

  Then after there is half left... pay the people they owe money, pay their trainers, coaches, gym fees, equipment fees, ped fees, etc


 left with shit


 

I don't believe this is accurate.  In California maybe, the fights were held in Nevada.  I believe Nevada does not have income tax?

[luvvsuNOT]

Sounds like you took a class in economics 101. The truth is they fight for the UFC because they are the only game in town. In boxing different federations popped up when the boxers shopped for their best deal. Then they had to pay big money to get the fights the fans demanded to see.

UFC is a monopoly by any definition. The other organizations are a joke. These MMA guys have no other avenue and the UFC organization is exploiting the situation. They should unionize a strike forcing the UFC to find D list fighters and that would hurt their bottom line. They know they need marquee fighters to make money. An MMA fighter has a very limited self life. That's why unions exist. To stop people with your mentality if they will do it for a penny then I will pay a penny. When Randy Couture was refusing to fight unless they paid him what he wanted the UFC was beside them self putting him down. They knew at the time he was the top dog. They couldn't wait till his career was over.

The UFC is the premier MMA organization. But there are others where fighters make a good living. A Japanese fighter, whose name escapes me, recently turned down a UFC contract to stay with his organization. Fedor never went to the UFC even when they desperately wanted him to. There is far more competition and people making a living in MMA than in bodybuilding. The Weider empire built a far stronger and lasting monopoly. But whose fault is that? Just because Weider and Dana White created an organization that everyone wants to be a part of does that make them vilains? The IFBB and the UFC didn't start over night. It took years to build and nothing was guaranteed. None of you would have been around if it went bust and they lost millions? And none of the those who aspired to be a martial artist would have had any hope of making a decent living out of it. Just like how it was prior to the mid 1990s before Pride and before White and Zuffa took over.

As i've said before, fighters dream of one day being able to fight in the UFC. They kill themselves hoping to one day be noticed by Dana White and Zuffa so that they can fight in the UFC for $6,000 or even $600 dollars. You think that's unfair. That's fine and that's your right. You may think they are getting a bad deal but the fighters, no matter what they say, do not. I know this because there is a long line waiting for the opportunity to get in that cage. So you may think it's a bad deal that's why you are not a fighter and have no aspirations to be one. But what do you want to do about what you perceive to be an injustice? Pass a law requiring Dana White to pay every fighter a certain minimum amount? Say a $100,000. Now that would be coercion. Requiring someone, under threat of force, to do something that they do not and would not want to do.

[Radical Plato]

Where do you live. I'm talking about America. This where the UFC was created and based. There is no Crown land. It is very common for people here to own their land. I have a friend in Montana that owns hundreds of acres.

Most millionaires in this country are first generation millionaires. They didn't inherit it. Bill Gates and Michael Dell didn't inherit anything.

Air conditioning, cell phones, computers, pizza delivery, Amazon, health care, life expectancy, better automobiles, cheaper airline travel, the list is endless. The quality of life is much better today that it was a generation ago. The quality of life is much today than when I was a kid. I had the same injury in both knees ten years apart. The difference and recovery between the first and second, as well as the pain, was incredible. Were talking about a difference in months versus weeks in recovery. You can now have 20-20 vision in less than a half and hour. Even compare the gyms of today to the gyms in the 1950s. Compare the houses.  I don't think I am the naive one.

But you are determine to believe your life is screwed because of other people controlling it. Fair enough.

Who cares about Millionaires?  Being a millionaire stopped being considered wealthy long ago.  And land that isn't privately owned, your Government owns.  And Bill Gates is a perfect example of someone who had a leg up.  He was born into an extremely wealthy family that hobnobbed amongst other powerful families.  His great-grandfather had been a state legislator and mayor, his grandfather was the vice president of a national bank, and his father was a prominent and very wealthy lawyer. Mary Gates, Bill Gates’ mother, was the chairperson for the United Way Charity. Then one of the most influential nonprofit positions in the world. Serving on the exec committee with her back in the early seventies were, among others, John Akers, who would later become the CEO and chairman of International Business Machines (IBM), and John Opel, who preceded Akers in both positions. Mary Gates mentioned her son’s new business to Opel, who by many accounts then relayed this information to other top IBM executives.   It was his Mother's connections that got him in with IBM.  You're kidding yourself if you think a Bill gates could have come from a working class background.

Bill then went onto turn his families fortunes into billions by creating a monopoly, which is illegal.  His illegal activity eventually had his own Government come after him, his legal troubles went away after a change of Government helped financed by guess who.

And I think you are missing the point, the average persons quality of life may be better today,although such a thing is subjective and hard to qualify.  The point is, the majority are still serfs, unwilling slaves in lifestyles they wouldn't choose if given real resources and real options.  Like I said, you are like a contented slave telling everyone how Master is a good man and treats me well whenever anyone criticises slave ownership.

And what you call ownership of land is quite often ownership of a mortgage, often which takes the greater part of a mans working life to pay off.  And where does a man borrow this money from to eventually own a piece of land by the time he is 50 or 60 years old. The Banks which are owned by the Elites.  And those 100 of acres of land your friend owns, how much of that land is fertile and has resources of value on it.

I think you have little idea of how much power and wealth the Elites actually have.  I also think your level of comfort has prevented you from seeing those underneath you who are being exploited even further.  If you live in the USA and like most Western Countries buy cheap clothes and runners and mobile phones and electronics mostly made by slave labour in foreign countries, you are one of the lucky ones, a spoiled slave so to speak.  But the fact is, none of this would happen unless it benefits those at the top.  Class mobility is a dream of the past, we can all look forward to greater and greater disparities in inequality and a lifetime of involuntary indentured servitude.  And although the average Westerners lifestyle is better, the Elites lifestyle is far greater and always will be.  You may enjoy being fucked hard up the arse by 'THE MAN' because in the free time he gives you, you can watch UFC and eat ice cream.  Me, I just prefer to not be fucked up the arse in the first place.

"When people wanted enough freedom that they couldn’t be enslaved or killed or repressed, new modes of control naturally developed to try to impose forms of mental slavery so they would accept a framework of indoctrination and wouldn’t raise any questions. If you can trap people into not noticing, let alone questioning, crucial doctrines, they’re enslaved. They’ll essentially follow orders as if there was a gun pointed at them."

Noam Chomsky

[Radical Plato]

The view that working for wages is akin to slavery was already present in the ancient world.   At a time when self-sale contracts were one of the most direct ways to become a citizen in ancient Rome, Cicero wrote in his De Officiis that
"whoever gives his labor for money sells himself and puts himself in the rank of slaves."

In 1763, the French journalist Simon Linguet published a description of wage slavery:
The slave was precious to his master because of the money he had cost him . . . They were worth at least as much as they could be sold for in the market . . . It is the impossibility of living by any other means that compels our farm labourers to till the soil whose fruits they will not eat and our masons to construct buildings in which they will not live . . . It is want that compels them to go down on their knees to the rich man in order to get from him permission to enrich him . . . what effective gain [has] the suppression of slavery brought [him ?] He is free, you say. Ah! That is his misfortune . . . These men . . . [have] the most terrible, the most imperious of masters, that is, need. . . . They must therefore find someone to hire them, or die of hunger. Is that to be free?

[luvvsuNOT]

OK, so being a millionaire is not rich. Kobe makes 30 million a year but he's not rich. Jay Leno pulls in excess of 25 million a year but not rich. You have quite a high standard for what constitutes being financially wealthy. I'm going to guess then that you are not rich nor will you ever be.

Anybody that works for a living is a slave. The news anchor I'm watching right now on TV is a slave. A member of my church who has worked at Walmart for over 30 years starting as a bag boy but is now a district manager making $150,000 a year is not only not well off but a slave. My 24 year old neighbor who is a fireman and pulled in $75 grand is also a poor slave. The great Arnold who worked as an actor and then a politician is a non rich slave. Dana White and Anderson Silva all have to work to get a pay check and they are just poor slaves. I look at the all the people at the recent New Years neighborhood block party, all laughing and enjoying themselves with their children and families, all looking well fed and happy: a meat manager at a grocery store, a mailman, a school bus driver, a pharmacist, a cashier, truck driver, convenience store owner, a teacher, a web designer... all jobs that allow our society to function. And all slaves. All being, as you so eloquently put it, "Fucked hard up the arse." But not you. You have a leg up on the rest of us. Somehow you manage to provide a roof over your head, food on the table and clothes on your back... not to mention the computer now in front of you by being a free man. How one expects to get things but not work for them is something that Americans don't understand. We value work. We honor the working man.

But to you we are just too ignorant to realize how miserable we should be. Somehow, despite you ability to avoid a "hard arse fucking", you don't strike me as a particularly happy and content person. You sound very bitter, angry and resentful. Resentful of others who have done better in life than you have. And it's not because of any hard work, ambition, drive, intelligence, determination and courage to take risks. It's because they were born elites. Dana White was born into privilege and now can exploit others. He got all the breaks and you didn't. But your virginal arse is still intact. Well, good for you.

We slaves will slave on and you, well, you carry on as well living the dream with your unviolated arse. The rest of us will wallow in our ignorant state of bliss all the way to our grave. You're the true winner. You should be happy.

[thebrink]

The peaceful destruction of E Kul

[Natural Man]

I guess they also get famous and then can charge tons of money to dumb rich people who want to train with them? arent they mostly training people once their pro career is finished? The exposure is worth it.