Muhammad Ali dodges 21 punches in 10 seconds

[Shockwave]

If I where a black man in those days and could pull it off I too would not fight and die for a country that would not treat me as an equal person. I say good for Ali, plus that war was fought by politicians that would not let the military do it's job. Nothing was accomplished there, pure bullying waste of lives and money.

doesnt make him any less of a coward for ducking out by 'finding religion' while his brothers, sisters, and fellow Americans were out there doing their part fighting and dying....  the politics were irrelevant. .. citizens got called to do their duty, and they went, and many never returned home. Except him, he thought he was somehow special and wasnr responsible to do his part as a citizen when his number came up.

Imho he should have lost his citizenship and been deported.  

He never would have even set foot in nam, they would have had him boxing in the Army or Marines.

dude may have been the best boxer in history but he was a piece of shit as a person and a coward imho.

/grandpa shockwave rant

[Eric2]

doesnt make him any less of a coward for ducking out by 'finding religion' while his brothers, sisters, and fellow Americans were out there doing their part fighting and dying....  the politics were irrelevant. .. citizens got called to do their duty, and they went, and many never returned home. Except him, he thought he was somehow special and wasnr responsible to do his part as a citizen when his number came up.

Imho he should have lost his citizenship and been deported.  

He never would have even set foot in nam, they would have had him boxing in the Army or Marines.

dude may have been the best boxer in history but he was a piece of shit as a person and a coward imho.

/grandpa shockwave rant

We can agree to disagree. Walk a mile in a black man's shoes who had to live through the crap they did before you can judge a man's character. Who are you to say he is a coward? How many leaders in our country where gifted special treatment so they could avoid real combat while the lower class white men and black man died for us? I believe in service to this country, I believe in a fight to the death if it's a good one. Let's face it the Vietnam war was not a fight worth dying for once the direction of it was known. We have but one life on this earth why die for some bullshit war have your name on a marker?

[Eric2]

Off topic,

@Eric2, to your avi, John Wayne telling Liberty he was going to pick up his steak was a good scene. Had to watch it on YT a few times.

Yep great movie I should watch this weekend.

[Ropo]

prime Ali v prime Tyson.....most everyone gives it to Ali easy........I don't think so. 

All the Ali shucken and jiven wouldn't work on Tyson.  He'd smash your gut with 2 shots and then uppercut you into oblivion....can't duck bodyshots.

So the rumble in the jungle was fake. 8 rounds with the strongest boxer in this universe at that time, hundreds of body shots, and Ali win by knockout. There was many average  boxers who take full rounds with Tyson, so why Ali would be weaker than those? I don't think so. Maybe some day we are able to see simulations where we can compare boxers etc. from different era to each other. That would be not only fun, but quite possible.

[Darren Avey]

Why should Ali fight for a country that treated he and his kin like shit? Fuck em

[Whiskey]

We can agree to disagree. Walk a mile in a black man's shoes who had to live through the crap they did before you can judge a man's character. Who are you to say he is a coward? How many leaders in our country where gifted special treatment so they could avoid real combat while the lower class white men and black man died for us? I believe in service to this country, I believe in a fight to the death if it's a good one. Let's face it the Vietnam war was not a fight worth dying for once the direction of it was known. We have but one life on this earth why die for some bullshit war have your name on a marker?

I think Ali was incredibly brave for the stand he took regarding Vietnam, he stood up for what he believed in and was robbed of 3 1/2 of his best years in the ring.

Ali said in an interview, "I had just come back from winning a gold medal for America in the Olympics, I'm walking around my home town with my medal around my neck and go in to a diner for a burger, I order and the waitress says to me "sorry, we don't serve Negros" Ali replied "well I don't eat them"

Ali said he could whoop any man from Russia, Cuba, wherever, he's an Olympic Champion and he can not even get a burger in his hometown, legend has it that after that incident he took his gold medal and through it into the river, not sure if true.

Ali is not a coward, he is a man of principle, integrity and honor.

Honestly, I'm surprised he never got assassinated for defying the American Government, that takes balls that clang.

Regards.

[freespirit]

doesnt make him any less of a coward for ducking out by 'finding religion' while his brothers, sisters, and fellow Americans were out there doing their part fighting and dying....  the politics were irrelevant. .. citizens got called to do their duty, and they went, and many never returned home. Except him, he thought he was somehow special and wasnr responsible to do his part as a citizen when his number came up.

Imho he should have lost his citizenship and been deported.  

He never would have even set foot in nam, they would have had him boxing in the Army or Marines.

dude may have been the best boxer in history but he was a piece of shit as a person and a coward imho.

/grandpa shockwave rant

You're an idiot. 

[O.Z.]

I doubt it. A few body shots from a prime Tyson would have Ali questioning his will to continue.

And a few ear bites

[GraniteCityDon]

another British bum

There is absolutely no way you know anything about Bomber without googling his fight record on Boxrec. Now keep quiet whilst the adults are talking, you must have made 500 posts referencing or questioning someone's ability "in da cage" and wonder why nobody can take you seriously.

[GraniteCityDon]

Some absolutely amazing fighters listed, and Locche was certainly unbelievable at taking the piss out of you. But its just my opinion about Bomber. Nigel Benn refused to fight him, Chris Eubank refused to fight - infact they sparred together for 2 weeks solid i believe and Eubank stated he landed only 1 punch on him. The best "nearly" fighter ive ever seen, was beaten by bad luck rather than his opponents ability on the world stage especially the way he took Julian Jackson apart. I guess that fight more than anything exemplifies his career.

[Kwon_2]

Tyson was the best

[The True Adonis]

doesnt make him any less of a coward for ducking out by 'finding religion' while his brothers, sisters, and fellow Americans were out there doing their part fighting and dying....  the politics were irrelevant. .. citizens got called to do their duty, and they went, and many never returned home. Except him, he thought he was somehow special and wasnr responsible to do his part as a citizen when his number came up.

Imho he should have lost his citizenship and been deported.  

He never would have even set foot in nam, they would have had him boxing in the Army or Marines.

dude may have been the best boxer in history but he was a piece of shit as a person and a coward imho.

/grandpa shockwave rant

The thing is though, Ali was ready to go to jail and was fine with the punishment if that was what was to be decided.

I personally don`t think the government should have that much control over someones life.  Neither did Jefferson, Washington, Franklin or any of the founders.  They would be abhorred to learn about a military draft.

[The True Adonis]

[The True Adonis]

Thomas Jefferson on the Draft as "the last of all oppressions" (1777)

Even when the revolutionary war was not going well for the colonists, Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) reminded John Adams in a letter that the colonists would not stand for military conscription or the draft under any circumstances regarding it as "the last of all oppressions":

    "Our battalions for the continental service were some time ago so far filled as rendered the recommendation of a draught from the militia hardly requisite, and the more so as in this country it ever was the most unpopular and impracticable thing that could be attempted. Our people, even under the monarchical government, had learnt to consider it as the last of all oppressions."

[The True Adonis]

Daniel Webster, former American Senator

    “Is this, sir, consistent with the character of a free government? Is this civil liberty? Is this the real character of our Constitution? No, sir, indeed it is not…. Where is it written in the Constitution, in what article or section is it contained, that you may take children from their parents, and parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battles of any war, in which the folly or the wickedness of government may engage it? Under what concealment has this power lain hidden, which now for the first time comes forth, with a tremendous and baleful aspect, to trample down and destroy the dearest rights of personal liberty?”

[The True Adonis]

Ronald Reagan, former Republican U.S. President

    “[An involuntary military draft] rests on the assumption that your kids belong to the state. If we buy that assumption then it is for the state—not for parents, the community, the religious institutions or teachers—to decide who shall have what values and who shall do what work, when, where and how in our society. That assumption isn’t a new one. The Nazis thought it was a great idea.”

[The True Adonis]

Ron Paul, U.S. Congressman

    “Justifying conscription to promote the cause of liberty is one of the most bizarre notions ever conceived by man! Forced servitude, with the risk of death and serious injury as a price to live free, makes no sense.”
    “[The] draft violates the very principles of individual liberty upon which our nation was founded… All drafts hit the most vulnerable young people, as the elites learn quickly how to avoid the risks of combat… The draft encourages wars with neither purpose nor moral justification, wars that too often are not even declared by the Congress.”
    “Mr. Speaker, the most important reason to oppose reinstatement of a military draft is that conscription violates the very principles upon which this country was founded. The basic premise underlying conscription is that the individual belongs to the state, individual rights are granted by the state, and therefore politicians can abridge individual rights at will. In contrast, the philosophy which inspired America’s founders, expressed in the Declaration of Independence, is that individuals possess natural, God-given rights which cannot be abridged by the government. Forcing people into military service against their will thus directly contradicts the philosophy of the Founding Fathers. A military draft also appears to contradict the constitutional prohibition of involuntary servitude.”

[Shockwave]

Clearly you all missed the '/grandpa shockwave rant' at the end there. Those arent my words. Those are his words, paraphrased, of course.

I personally dont know enough about the man to form an opinion and I domt particularly give a shit, I have do howevwe feel he shirked his duty while his fellow black brothers went and performed their duty and died. In my incredibly limited knowledge on the issue id put him witb the wealthy sons of politicians; and others who used their power and influence to dodge the draft. 

As far as the draft goes, I agree with you TA, I think its wrong and an abuse of government power, and from a purely militarily standpoints, id take a small group of highly motivated volunteer s over a bunch of conscripts anyday. You want people next to you that want to be there, not guys that are going to gurn tail and run to save their own skin.

[The True Adonis]

Clearly you all missed the '/grandpa shockwave rant' at the end there. Those arent my words. Those are his
 Paraphrased, of course.

I personally dont know enough about the man to form an opinion and I domt particularly give a shit, I have do howevwe feel he shirked his duty while his fellow black brothers went and performed their duty and died. In my incredibly limited knowledge on the issue id put him witb the wealthy sons of politicians; and others who used their power and influence to dodge the draft.

Military Drafts are the very definition of an overzealous government.  I am afraid I cannot support it at all. 

[Shockwave]

Military Drafts are the very definition of an overzealous government.  I am afraid I cannot support it at all. 

reread my lost, I was editing it while you were posting evidently.

[The True Adonis]

reread my lost, I was editing it while you were posting evidently.

Yep!

I figured you didn`t support that kind of government intrusion on liberty.

[hardgainerj]

for those that claim that ali couldnt handle tyson you guys forget that ali took shots flush from the hardest puncher in history

[Eric2]

Ronald Reagan, former Republican U.S. President

    “[An involuntary military draft] rests on the assumption that your kids belong to the state. If we buy that assumption then it is for the state—not for parents, the community, the religious institutions or teachers—to decide who shall have what values and who shall do what work, when, where and how in our society. That assumption isn’t a new one. The Nazis thought it was a great idea.”

Great quotes from Reagan and Jefferson. I really do believe the government is lead by a select few that we never see. The real power is the dollar and from which it comes. Governments are lead by by the corrupt elitist who dup the masses with false flags to enrage them into battle. Things need to change in America, unless we are truly attacked on our own soil and not that of a corporate interest then we should not allow our men and women to die endlessly for some fat cat group. Our military is spread all over the world to suit only one interest...........follo w the money trail, it has nothing to do with saving other people from oppression. That's only the disguise for war.

[ChopperRider]

for those that claim that ali couldnt handle tyson you guys forget that ali took shots flush from the hardest puncher in history

If Ali could take shots from Earnie Shavers, he could take shots from Tyson. I think what gets lost in Ali discussions is how big he was, his reach, and his speed & agility for a guy 6-3" and about 225-230 lbs.

If Ali survived a prime George Foreman, he would beat Tyson up in the later rounds of a fight between the two of them in their prime.

[gee38]

heres what shavers had to say about tyson in 2001

"Mike Tyson? He doesn't like it too much when he has somebody coming back at him and you bet I'd be coming back. I admire Lennox and the way he has kept his friends around him but Mike is with the wrong people. Perhaps I earned a million dollars but money never changed me. Mike's different, not a bad guy but, when the fight game's over, he won't make a dime, he'll slowly bury himself."

he was right.

he also worked on the door of yates wine lodge in Liverpool- then Hannahs bar which is owned by John Conteh's brother- former light heavyweight world champion. he doesn't work there anymore but it was a very quiet door when he worked there- he spent more time doing autographs and photos than ejecting anyone. strange that!