Author Topic: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee  (Read 111095 times)

The True Adonis

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #625 on: February 04, 2016, 05:50:47 PM »
It would take an extraordinary chain of events, which probably would have started with an Iowa win -- which didn't happen, of course.

We know Bloomberg (and more, probably) are ready to jump in if Bernie, for any reason, takes the nomination.  The wealthy people are standing by, ready to be scared of him if necessary.                               
Iowa was a tie.  There is no "win".  Its a matter of collecting delegates and the overall nomination.  .3 percent difference is hardly any difference. 

240 is Back

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #626 on: February 04, 2016, 06:39:37 PM »
::)

Dumbest statement ever.

i'd love to see clinton lose.  but iowa is religious (tied) and they hate her there.  Bernie is from VT and he's gonna win NH.

Everywhere else, she's gonna soundly beat him.

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #627 on: February 04, 2016, 06:43:53 PM »
Iowa was a tie.  There is no "win".  Its a matter of collecting delegates and the overall nomination.  .3 percent difference is hardly any difference. 


Way to think positively.  Sounds good to me!

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #628 on: February 04, 2016, 06:54:40 PM »
i'd love to see clinton lose.  but iowa is religious (tied) and they hate her there.  Bernie is from VT and he's gonna win NH.

Everywhere else, she's gonna soundly beat him.
I don't think you have thought this out quite yet.

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #629 on: February 04, 2016, 07:00:37 PM »
I don't think you have thought this out quite yet.

The main reasoning I've heard about what 240 says, is that it's because Bernie is a Jew.  Saying he'll get destroyed in the South and other places.

But will that really have an effect on those who'd otherwise vote for Hillary?  I don't know that it's necessarily true.

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #630 on: February 04, 2016, 07:51:57 PM »
The main reasoning I've heard about what 240 says, is that it's because Bernie is a Jew.  Saying he'll get destroyed in the South and other places.

But will that really have an effect on those who'd otherwise vote for Hillary?  I don't know that it's necessarily true.
Its not true at all.  Jews are beloved in the South. Especially the atheist Jews.  ;)

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #631 on: February 08, 2016, 11:12:30 AM »
Its not true at all.  Jews are beloved in the South. Especially the atheist Jews.  ;)

It doesn't make sense that the voters in question would act against someone for that, no.  I agree.

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #632 on: February 08, 2016, 11:15:03 AM »
Next debate = February 11

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #633 on: February 08, 2016, 04:56:52 PM »
Link to the New Hampshire debate:


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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #634 on: February 10, 2016, 10:25:56 AM »
Current delegate count:

Hillary:  394
Sanders:  42


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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #635 on: February 10, 2016, 03:13:16 PM »
Current delegate count:

Hillary:  394
Sanders:  42


You are counting Superdelegates who pledge their support to whomever wins the Primary?

Why would you automatically put them for Clinton?  ???

Makes no sense.

You need to look at the delegates won so far, Bernie is ahead.  Superdelegates only pledge after there is a nominee.

Did you not realize this?

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #636 on: February 10, 2016, 03:30:41 PM »
You are counting Superdelegates who pledge their support to whomever wins the Primary?

Why would you automatically put them for Clinton?  ???

Makes no sense.

You need to look at the delegates won so far, Bernie is ahead.  Superdelegates only pledge after there is a nominee.

Did you not realize this?

Did you not realize a number of superdelegates have already pledged support for Hillary? 

After Crushing Defeat, DNC Quirk Still Gives Hillary More New Hampshire Delegates Than Sanders
Derek Hunter, Contributor
02/10/2016

Though Bernie Sanders won the New Hampshire primary in a landslide over Hillary Clinton, he will likely receive fewer delegates than she will.

Sanders won 60 percent of the vote, but thanks to the Democratic Party’s nominating system, he leaves the Granite State with at least 13 delegates while she leaves with at least 15 delegates.

New Hampshire has 24 “pledged” delegates, which are allotted based on the popular vote. Sanders has 13, and Clinton has 9, with 2 currently allotted to neither.

But under Democratic National Committee rules, New Hampshire also has 8 “superdelegates,” party officials who are free to commit to whomever they like, regardless of how their state votes. Their votes count the same as delegates won through the primary.

New Hampshire has 8 superdelegates, 6 of which are committed to Hillary Clinton, giving her a total of 15 delegates from New Hampshire as of Wednesday at 9 a.m.

The state’s 2 remaining superdelegates remain uncommitted.

In the overall delegate count, Clinton holds a commanding lead after a razor-thin victory in Iowa and a shellacking in New Hampshire. Clinton has 394 delegates, both super and electorally assigned, to only 42 for Sanders.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/10/hillary-earns-more-new-hampshire-delegates-than-sanders-after-loss/#ixzz3zoJzM6Vh

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #637 on: February 10, 2016, 03:32:58 PM »
Did you not realize a number of superdelegates have already pledged support for Hillary? 

After Crushing Defeat, DNC Quirk Still Gives Hillary More New Hampshire Delegates Than Sanders
Derek Hunter, Contributor
02/10/2016

Though Bernie Sanders won the New Hampshire primary in a landslide over Hillary Clinton, he will likely receive fewer delegates than she will.

Sanders won 60 percent of the vote, but thanks to the Democratic Party’s nominating system, he leaves the Granite State with at least 13 delegates while she leaves with at least 15 delegates.

New Hampshire has 24 “pledged” delegates, which are allotted based on the popular vote. Sanders has 13, and Clinton has 9, with 2 currently allotted to neither.

But under Democratic National Committee rules, New Hampshire also has 8 “superdelegates,” party officials who are free to commit to whomever they like, regardless of how their state votes. Their votes count the same as delegates won through the primary.

New Hampshire has 8 superdelegates, 6 of which are committed to Hillary Clinton, giving her a total of 15 delegates from New Hampshire as of Wednesday at 9 a.m.

The state’s 2 remaining superdelegates remain uncommitted.

In the overall delegate count, Clinton holds a commanding lead after a razor-thin victory in Iowa and a shellacking in New Hampshire. Clinton has 394 delegates, both super and electorally assigned, to only 42 for Sanders.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/10/hillary-earns-more-new-hampshire-delegates-than-sanders-after-loss/#ixzz3zoJzM6Vh

Again, they NEVER break ranks from how their states vote.

The Republican Superdelegates have threatened to do it for years and they also have NEVER done it.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #638 on: February 10, 2016, 03:36:11 PM »
Again, they NEVER break ranks from how their states vote.

The Republican Superdelegates have threatened to do it for years and they also have NEVER done it.

Hope this helps.

So you are saying that everyone who is reporting the superdelegate and delegate count is wrong?  Your beef is with them.

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #639 on: February 10, 2016, 03:49:32 PM »
So you are saying that everyone who is reporting the superdelegate and delegate count is wrong?  Your beef is with them.
Its disingenuous.  Its counting on something that has NEVER taken place in history. 

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #640 on: February 10, 2016, 05:23:56 PM »
Nice, TA!  Sounds great.  I'll admit to being concerned about it since DE posted that other article earlier in the thread.  But judging by the following, you're absolutely right:



Bernie Sanders’ win in the New Hampshire primary Tuesday night came with some pretty impressive footnotes:

1. His margin of victory was the highest for a non-incumbent candidate in any state since JFK.

2. He won almost every demographic group—male, female, young, old, moderate, liberal, college educated, high school-educated—with the exception of voters making more than $200,000 per year.

3. He became the first Jewish candidate to win a state primary in U.S. history.

4. He became the first non-Christian candidate to win a state primary in U.S. history.

Sanders isn’t one to emphasize his religious affiliation—his political beliefs make him enough of an outsider as it is—so you won’t read much coverage about the historic nature of his win. What you will read about is how it’s going to change his primary battle against Hillary Clinton. The path to the nomination is still difficult for Sanders, and Clinton should still be considered the favorite, but winning New Hampshire in a blowout will give his candidacy a new kind of credibility and momentum. Sanders was polling below five percent nationally when he joined the race, and to come this far in such a short time, against an overwhelming favorite, is a bit staggering—so staggering that a frustrated Clinton “might “shake up her entire campaign.

The narrative has changed, which means that establishment figures are duty-bound to change it back. If you’re an avid follower of politics, you may have seen tweets like these in the aftermath of the win:

*******
Timothy McBride
@mcbridetd

#NHPrimary

Vote totals
Sanders 60% Clinton 38%

Delegates won (incl Superdelegates)
Clinton 15, Sanders 13

6:25 AM - 10 Feb 2016

*******

Or:

*******
Timothy McBride
‏@mcbridetd

Reality check:

Delegate count after tonight
Clinton 431
Sanders 50

    Retweets
    382
    Likes
    328

10:07 PM - 9 Feb 2016

*******

Oh no, you might be thinking, look at those delegate totals! He’s getting killed! The New Hampshire primary is meaningless! He didn’t even really win! On the Sanders Reddit page this morning, users were asking whether the whole primary process was a Sisyphean task, and if victory was impossible.

Make no mistake: That’s the point of this kind of messaging. To discourage, dismay, and dishearten, in the wake of something that should feel really positive for Sanders supporters. Reality check: The system is bigger than you, and you can’t change it, so go home.

I have no clue if Timothy McBride has any affiliation or even affection for Hillary Clinton, and he was certainly not alone in advancing this talking point. (Update: Surprise, surprise, the two are connected.) What I do know is that he tweeted these statistics out last night and again this morning, and whatever his intentions—and those like him—Clinton herself could not have written a better media script.

So what’s happening here? Are those delegate counts right?

Well, no—McBride’s math is wrong, but I’m assuming that wasn’t a malicious mistake. The actual count is 394-42.

So technically, yes, the count is close to accurate. He’s not overtly lying. But are they illustrative of some critical, insurmountable problem for Sanders? Not at all. Are they even relevant to the primary race? Barely. Certainly not now, and probably not ever. Are these messages deceptive, even subtly? Yes. Absolutely. And they’re propagated by people who are withholding the full story in the hopes that people like you and me are too stupid and complacent to find out on our own.

McBride’s sneaky tactic is to count “Superdelegates,” which is how he arrives at his imbalanced total. Accept the numbers blindly, and you might feel an impulse toward panic. My message to you: Chill. It’s a clever trick, but a silly one, and it won’t affect anything. To counter this narrative, let’s examine the political reality behind Superdelegates, and explain how they really work, Q&A style.

Q: You say Superdelegates don’t matter, but I don’t even know what they are. How does Hillary have 300+ already?

A: Let’s start simple: The Democratic nominee for president is decided based on which candidate wins the most delegates. You will find conflicting information about how many there are in 2016, but according to the AP, the delegate total is 4,763. It takes 2,382 of those to secure the nomination. And of the 4,763, 712 are “Superdelegates”—about 15 percent of the overall total.

Q: Okay, but what’s the difference?

A: The 4,051 “normal” delegates are allocated based on the votes in each state. That’s why we have primaries and caucuses in all of them, eventually—the will of the people decides where each of these delegates goes. In New Hampshire last night, Sanders won 13 delegates to Clinton’s nine, with two left to award when the last precincts report (in all likelihood, based on current percentages, it will finish 15-9 for Sanders). In Iowa, where Clinton won a narrow victory, the current delegate count is 23-21 in her favor. This process will repeat in every state until all 4,051 “normal” delegates have been alloted.

On the Democratic side, these delegates are rewarded proportionally in each state, rather than on the winner-take-all basis most states use in the electoral college. Those delegates are “pledged” to the appropriate candidate, and will not change affiliation at the national convention.

Q: That makes sense, but what are Superdelegates?

A: The remaining 712 delegates are not decided by each state’s popular vote, but rather by individuals who are given a vote by the Democratic party. They are free to choose whoever they want at the national convention, regardless of how the vote went in their home state.

Q: Who gets to be a Superdelegate?

A: Every Democratic member of Congress, House and Senate, is a Superdelegate (240 total). Every Democratic governor is a Superdelegate (20 total). Certain “distinguished party leaders,” 20 in all, are given Superdelegate status. And finally, the Democratic National Committee names an additional 432 Superdelegates—an honor that typically goes to mayors, chairs and vice-chairs of the state party, and other dignitaries.

Q: So they have way more importance than an ordinary voter?

A: Oh yeah. In 2008, each Superdelegate had about as much clout as 10,000 voters. It will be roughly the same in 2016.

Q: How did this system come to exist?

A: I’ll make this history lesson brief: In 1968, after the riots at the Democratic national convention in Chicago, party leaders knew they needed to change the nomination process to give ordinary people more of a say in how the potential president was chosen. Thus, the state-by-state primary/caucus system was born. By the 1980s, the party elites felt left out of the process, bereft of all influence, and they thought their absence had hurt the party with weaker candidates like George McGovern and Jimmy Carter. Jim Hunt, Governor of North Carolina, was commissioned to come up with a new system, and by 1984 the Superdelegate system was implemented. Democrats thought that by giving more power to party leaders, it would prevent “unelectable” candidates, beloved by the populace, from costing them the general election.

Q: Why does Hillary Clinton have so many more Superdelegates this time around?

A: Because Superdelegates are the establishment, and Clinton is the establishment candidate. Period.

A quick look at the chart below, courtesy of Wikipedia, shows how insanely imbalanced the Superdelegate race is at this point in time:



In Congress, Hillary Clinton has 39 of the 47 Senators, with seven uncommitted. Bernie Sanders has an endorsement from just one Senator. That Senator’s name? Bernie Sanders. In the House, Hillary leads 157-2, and her advantage in the DNC is 138-10. Even among the “distinguished party leaders,” which includes Bill Clinton, Howard Dean, Dick Gephardt, and Walter Mondale, she leads eight to one. Overall, the total is 355-14, with 341 uncommitted.

So when you see tweets like McBride’s above, where he cites Clinton’s 431-50 edge, he’s adding these “pledged” Superdelegates. We’ve already seen that his math is wrong—per the New York Times, the actual updated total is 394-42. But when you look at actual popular votes that have taken place, Sanders leads 34-32.

Q: From everything you’ve told me so far, I can’t understand why you’re calling Superdelegate votes “irrelevant.” It seems to me like they have the same voting power as a normal delegate, and this puts Sanders in a tremendous hole from the word “go.”

A: Here’s why it doesn’t matter: Superdelegates have never decided a Democratic nomination. It would be insane, even by the corrupt standards of the Democratic National Committee, if a small group of party elites went against the will of the people to choose the presidential nominee.

This has already been an incredibly tense election, and Sanders voters are already expressing their unwillingness to vote for Clinton in the general election. When you look at the astounding numbers from Iowa and New Hampshire, where more than 80 percent of young voters have chosen Sanders over Clinton, regardless of gender, it’s clear that Clinton already finds herself in a very tenuous position for the general election. It will be tough to motivate young supporters, but any hint that Bernie was screwed by the establishment will result in total abandonment.

Democrats win when turnout is high, and if the DNC decides to go against the will of the people and force Clinton down the electorate’s throat, they’d be committing political suicide.

The important thing to know here is that Superdelegates are merely pledged to a candidate. We know who they support because they’ve stated it publicly, or been asked by journalists. They are not committed, and can change at any time. If Bernie Sanders wins the popular vote, he will be the nominee. End of story.

Q: But it’s not the end of the story, is it? Hasn’t the DNC pulled some shady shit already?

A: Oh yeah. They totally rigged the debate schedule to limit Sanders’ exposure, and now that he’s gaining ground on Clinton, they’re desperate to add more. Sanders probably won the popular vote in Iowa, but the party elite there are refusing to release popular vote totals, even though that’s exactly what they did in 2008. It’s been an embarrassment of Clinton protectionism from the very beginning.

However, that doesn’t mean they’ll overthrow the will of the people when it comes to the presidential nomination. Assuming Sanders wins the popular vote nationwide, and assuming the Superdelegates put Clinton over the top, let’s consider the consequences:

1. Sanders supporters abandon Clinton completely, cutting off a huge portion of her base.

2. Massive protests at the convention, and a party split in half.

3. Republicans have the easiest attack in presidential election history: “Her own party didn’t even want her!”

4. The perception that Clinton is a dishonest politician grows wings, and even if people are reluctant to vote for the GOP nominee, an independent like Bloomberg could strip away an awful lot of votes.

All of this spells disaster for the Democrats. It may not be too corrupt for the DNC to imagine—they’ve got good imaginations—but it’s too transparent to execute. The winner of the delegate count from state primaries and caucuses will win the nomination, and the Superdelegates will fall in line. Just as they have in every single election since the system was implemented. (Including in 2008, when this same concern was raised—would Superdelegates cost Obama the nomination?)

Even the Democratic power structure isn’t so short-sighted that it would cut off its nose to spite its face.

Q: If Superdelegates can shift allegiances, and if going against the people’s will is so unthinkable, why don’t the pundits ever mention it?

A: It’s almost like there’s an agenda, right? Not to keep picking on McBride, who is a very minor figure in all this, and who had the bad luck to appear on my timeline yesterday, but what purpose do those numbers serve other than to discourage Sanders supporters? They’re essentially meaningless, but when presented without context, they give the impression of an unbeatable juggernaut, and tacitly encourage outsiders to give up all hope. On a smaller level, it’s the same when you see charts like these, from Politico:



It’s enough to provoke despair, if you don’t understand the system, and none of these outlets are bothering to explain. The reader is left to draw his or her own conclusions, and it can seem overwhelming. I don’t know if the explicit goal is to have a chilling effect on participation, and to discourage passionate people from participating in our democracy, but it certainly feels that way.

So, do yourself a favor and ignore the Superdelegates. If Hillary Clinton wins the most popular delegates, she will be the party nominee. If Bernie Sanders wins the most popular delegates, he will be the party nominee. And anyone who tells you otherwise—even by implication, and even armed with misleading statistics—is selling you a bill of goods. Don’t buy it.

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/02/after-sanders-big-win-in-new-hampshire-establishme.html

Shane Ryan

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #641 on: February 10, 2016, 06:31:20 PM »

Q: Who gets to be a Superdelegate?

A: Every Democratic member of Congress, House and Senate, is a Superdelegate (240 total). Every Democratic governor is a Superdelegate (20 total). Certain “distinguished party leaders,” 20 in all, are given Superdelegate status. And finally, the Democratic National Committee names an additional 432 Superdelegates—an honor that typically goes to mayors, chairs and vice-chairs of the state party, and other dignitaries.



Good article.  Thanks. 

I'm sure TA already knew that these superdelegates are members of Congress, etc. and not part of a particular state's delegates.   :)

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #642 on: February 10, 2016, 06:46:28 PM »
Good article.  Thanks. 

I'm sure TA already knew that these superdelegates are members of Congress, etc. and not part of a particular state's delegates.   :)


This is the part which stood out for me:

Quote
The winner of the delegate count from state primaries and caucuses will win the nomination, and the Superdelegates will fall in line. Just as they have in every single election since the system was implemented.

Do you think they may not extend Bernie the same respect they did for Obama, when the same issue came up in 08?  I really don't know, and maybe that's true.

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #643 on: February 10, 2016, 07:16:26 PM »
A little something from an NBC article on Bernie:

Quote
Sanders' success with blue collar voters in New Hampshire carries potentially significant implications. Conventional wisdom has held that his campaign is fueled by the same liberal white voters who sided with Obama in '08 — but doomed by his inability to make inroads with black voters, who were essential to Obama's triumph.

But the New Hampshire result suggests that Sanders is winning over white voters who shunned Obama in 2008. Eight years ago, it was blue collar whites who sustained Clinton's campaign through the end of the Democratic primary season, providing her edge in must-win contests in Pennsylvania and Ohio and powering her to landslide victories in "Greater Appalachia" states from Oklahoma to West Virginia. If Sanders can continue to win these voters over, he may be in position to win far more states than most have assumed.

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #644 on: February 10, 2016, 07:17:21 PM »
Bernie just raised over 7 million dollars in one day, the most ever by any candidate from individual donors in history.   :o

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #645 on: February 10, 2016, 07:40:03 PM »
Blacks need to wake the f up.  They need to find their common sense and use it.

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #646 on: February 10, 2016, 07:43:19 PM »

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #647 on: February 10, 2016, 08:10:24 PM »


1 Superdelegate = 10,000 votes.

I agree with the guy that we need to scrap-heap the Super (I noticed he paraphrased heavily from the article above, too).

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #648 on: February 11, 2016, 07:59:40 AM »
I'd swear they set it up like this to help prime it to be infiltrated.

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Re: Presidential Candidates 2016: 10 Democrats Who Might Be the Next Nominee
« Reply #649 on: February 11, 2016, 08:20:48 AM »
Blacks need to wake the f up.  They need to find their common sense and use it.
what  does this mean>???